Question about correct caliber for hunting

[ChasMack]

I have a feeling I know some of the answers but I'll ask of those who know more. I have a lever action rifle in 44/40. Is this ok for deer hunting? I have a rifle I have yet to shoot after about 3 years and am thinking of selling it. But if I don't I'd like to know if 44/40 is just marginal and may be best to NOT use. I have a box of 44/40 bullets (cowboy loads). I am thinking I would need something "hotter". Any info much appreciated.

 

[H&Hhunter]

The .44/40 is extremely marginal as a deer hunting round in under most circumstances. Your major limitation is range. If you were stand hunting over a bait you could make it work.

 

[Malamute]

The cowboy loads are pretty weak compared to regular factory soft point loads.

If you can shoot the gun well, at the distance youll be hunting, it will kill deer, though I wouldn't get too adventurous with marginal angles and such, or obscured shots. They are used regularly by folks that like the older rounds, and they often use black powder and cast bullets, (similar velocities to the factory smokeless loads, NOT the puny target cowboy loads.)

 

[WestKentucky]

Use regular ammo and learn the rifle well so you can make good shots. Big hunks of lead do wonders, even at low velocity. Is it marginal, maybe but people say that about every caliber when they can't put the bullet on the right spot. A 50bmg isn't enough to take down a whitetail if you hit him in the foot, but a 22lr is enough if they are hit well, and that's been proven repeatedly by illegal "hunters" (drunks in trucks and jeeps). Put that 44-40 on the vitals and you have your dinner laying down a few yards away.

 

[horsey300]

Just gonna put this out there.....it's not legal to hunt with a .44-40 around here, required .22 cal or larger with 900ft-lbs at 100 yds, just within the last couple years they let the .357 and .44mag in. Make sure it's legal first. Then as Walkalong said, PRACTICE, LOTS, with harder hitting ammo.

 

[Art Eatman]

Factory loads for the .44-40 are downloaded so that they're safe in old Colt single-actions. They are thus marginal for deer-hunting. However, they'll likely work with a range limit of (just guessing) around fifty yards or thereabouts. Farther out and the typical sights + the basketball trajectory create problems for a good hit.

 

[stoky]

Check your state laws, someplace besides the internet.
If you repeatedly hit an 8" plate at 100yds, my opinion is that you can hunt out to that distance with it.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

All things are relative, but the term "cowboy load" is also somewhat misleading.

For example "cowboy loads" in .45 Colt are typically viewed as underpowered loads, especially when used in cowboy shooting sports.

But who amongst us would consider 255 grains of .45 caliber lead at 1,000 fps as "underpowered"? Because that's pretty much what the original .45 Colt loading got out of a 7 1/2" barrel.

By comparison, plenty of people today don't consider a 230 grain .45 caliber at 850 fps to be underpowered.


Lots of game was reliably taken long before what we consider to be "modern" smokeless rifle cartridges, too.

According to the internet, the original .44-40 was 200 grains pushing at 1150 - 1200 fps from a 24 inch barrel. That is the original "cowboy load" for the .44-40. If the loads you have now are below that, then I'd call them underpowered cowboy loads intended for target practice or cowboy competitions.

Hunters of days long past probably weren't much different than today...in other words, hunters tend to hunt within the effective range of their weapon. They didn't use shotguns for 50 yard shots, and if their rifle wasn't effective beyond a given distance, they worked to get within range.

There are ALWAYS more effective calibers, velocities, bullet designs/mass, rifles for a given critter. But if the vast majority of your deer hunting is in the brush where your effective shooting range is likely to be well within 100 yards...why wouldn't a .44-40 rifle with at least the original "cowboy load" be effective?

And if it's not...the cheap solution is a couple boxes of modern .44-40 hunting ammunition...enough to sight the rifle in with a few left to hunt the season.

 

[Malamute]

You are confusing the issue by using the term "cowboy loads" out of context. Its not got anything to do with original loads, its the modern, watered down loads used for close range shooting in cowboy action shooting. They typically are noticeably weaker than any of the original loadings, in either black or smokeless. Your post is not clear on that distinction and can be misleading as to the term used as "cowboy loads.

You appear to be implying that "cowboy loads" in 45 Colt are 250 gr @ 1000 fps, which is not what factory "cowboy action" loads produce. They run in the 750 fps range. Not spitballs, but certainly not what you are implying.

Edited to reduce grumpy effect.

 

[Weflyfast]

Will it work? Absolutely....is it the best? Absolutely not...

...there are so many better calibers out there for deer....

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

You are confusing the issue by using the term "cowboy loads" out of context. Its not got anything to do with original loads, its the modern, watered down loads used for close range shooting in cowboy action shooting. They typically are noticeably weaker than any of the original loadings, in either black or smokeless. Your post is not clear on that distinction and can be misleading as to the term used as "cowboy loads.

You appear to be implying that "cowboy loads" in 45 Colt are 250 gr @ 1000 fps, which is not what factory "cowboy action" loads produce. They run in the 750 fps range. Not spitballs, but certainly not what you are implying.

Edited to reduce grumpy effect.

If you're referring to my post, that's not what I meant to imply at all. You are correct in what you posted.

Perhaps I wasn't as clear on this in my posting as I could have been. I intended to show a distinction between the "original cowboy load", which is quite a bit different than the "modern cowboy load" used for target shooting and cowboy competitions.

The historical loads that the cowboys of yesteryear used were, indeed, powerful rounds in their own right, intended to be workhorses capable of putting game on the table or taking down people if required.

Todays "cowboy loads" aren't meant to be full power loads at all, being specifically tailored to lower velocities for cowboy competition shooting. (And safe shooting in historical firearms.)

Looking back at my posting, I see I could have been clearer. But I did allude to this, like in this paragraph:

"According to the internet, the original .44-40 was 200 grains pushing at 1150 - 1200 fps from a 24 inch barrel. That is the original "cowboy load" for the .44-40. If the loads you have now are below that, then I'd call them underpowered cowboy loads intended for target practice or cowboy competitions."

I'll try to be a bit more explicit next time! Thanks for the backup!

 

[Malamute]

I'll look for a link or two, but John Kort has posted a number of very interesting posts in various places on original black powder loads in 44-40 and 45 Colt, using original loads with fresh primers, and working to duplicate the results with modern black powder and components. Very interesting stuff.

He also constructed some black powder 22 LR loads, the results were pretty surprising and interesting. They didn't foul out and quickly lose accuracy like many thought would happen. Made me want to try some just for the fun factor.


ETA: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?265478-My-44-40-Black-Powder-Journey

^^ Info about factory black powder 44-40 loads


ETA 2: http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,57532.msg689833.html#msg689833

^^Johns post regarding factory black powder 45 Colt loads is about halfway down the page, his user name there is w44wcf.

 

[Sunray]

There is no 'correct' calibre. There are 'legal' calibres though.
However, Cowboy loads are target loads. Not suitable for large game even if your State's unelected civil servants say the cartridge is ok. Lots of deer were killed with a .44-40 before there were hunting regs or Cowboy loads.
Assuming your State hunting regs allow the cartridge(Hunting regs are daft everywhere. There are places up here you can't use a .30-06, but you can use a .275 Weatherby Mag.) reloading is the way to go. Hornady makes several suitable .430" jacketed HP bullets(likely a special order thing). Issue is the lack of data for jacketed bullets. There is 20" barrel rifle, 200 grain, cast data running over 1,000 fps on Hodgdon's site. Probably lots in the assorted manuals too. A cast bullet will be fine for deer if it's legal.

 

[Malamute]

No problem making 1300 fps with 200 gr jacketed 44-40 loads even in black powder rifles. That's what the standard factory jacketed smokeless loads run, and duplicates black powder velocities.

 

[jeepnik]

Ah, the continuing myth that the .44 wcf is insufficient for deer. It's right up there with the 30-30 not being enough. Fact is, if you aren't the type of hunter who sits on their butt, but rather one who will stalk (isn't this really what hunting is) and close the range to what is appropriate for the weapon and caliber you're using it will work just fine.

 

[CraigC]

The only question would be the particular load. What is the rifle? Originally, the .44WCF used .427-.428" bullets. These days, most are made to handle the more common .429-.430" bullets and that changes things. I hunt with a .38-40 Uberti 1873 all the time and with a standard load of 10.0gr Unique, it gets a 180gr to nearly 1500fps. So a 200gr .44-40 will probably run at least 1300fps and that is plenty for average deer. Get a better .430" 250gr SWC to 1200fps and you're good to 100yds on any deer.

 

[T.R.]

44-40 is more powerful than the 44 Special. Yet my nephew has killed a dandy whitetail with my 44 MAG carbine shooting 44 Special ammo because of excellent accuracy with the added bonus of no recoil. 240 grain semi wad cutter ammo ammo by Black Hills Company. The shots were fired at about 25 yards from a tree blind and produced considerable damage to the chest organs.

44-40 is no long range number for deer. Keep your shots within about 60 yards or so and you'll do fine.

TR

 

[HOWARD J]

My second deer rifle was a .222 cal
Well placed shot it had no trouble knocking down a deer.
The rangers always gave me a hard time using that gun
One year 5am a ranger is sitting on the tongue of my travel trailer--I told him to come in as he could hear us better,
In time he said that MI rangers get 35000 rds of 222 for
winter deer kill. Live & learn

 

[MTNSTRYDER]

I hunt with the right tool for the day.Sitting in a stand my scoped 454 revolver/ thick brush or swamp lever action 30-30 or 454 loaded with hot 45colt/ not sure whats up for the day? Truck gun is a 303 and there is always at least a 357 on my body.I also love long bows.
There is no perfect caliber,But there can be the perfect shot.Shoot often always aim small.A big part of what we chose to hunt with is just because we like that gun or bow or action or even a round.I like 45 caliber and heavy 60lb plus bows.

 

[Don McDowell]

I have a feeling I know some of the answers but I'll ask of those who know more. I have a lever action rifle in 44/40. Is this ok for deer hunting? I have a rifle I have yet to shoot after about 3 years and am thinking of selling it. But if I don't I'd like to know if 44/40 is just marginal and may be best to NOT use. I have a box of 44/40 bullets (cowboy loads). I am thinking I would need something "hotter". Any info much appreciated.

Skip the "cowboy" loads, very anemic. If you can find them the Winchester factory loads are alright, but still somewhat moderate. You can reload the 44 wcf back to it's former glory and it will do a fine job out to 150 yds or so.

 

[CraigC]

150yds??? I've never owned a .44-40 but I've been hunting with the .38-40 for several years using loads that many would disapprove of. With 180's at 1450fps, 100yds is as far as I'd push it. I would push the .44Mag in a rifle to 150yds but that's about it.

 

[Don McDowell]

I wouldn't push my 38-40 past 100 yds either, that little pill drops starts dropping like a rock after that. The 44-40 "carries" a bit further, and was bragged by Winchester as being accurate to 300, which it is, but 150 is plenty far.
But Craig as usual it's to each his own..I own and use all three of the wcf cartridges.

 

[CraigC]

Somehow I don't think a bullet 20gr heavier and 200fps slower is going to "carry a bit further". The .38WCF's reputation has always been that it hit harder at longer ranges.

 

[Don McDowell]

What ever flips your skirts up, all I can tell you is what I have learned from actual experience with both cartridges.

 

[CraigC]

Your experience doesn't seem to jibe with reality. Your typical 200gr .44-40 bullet has a ballistic coefficient of .13 and traveling at 1300fps will have 11" of drop at 150yds with a 100yd zero.

A comparable 180gr .38-40 bullet has a ballistic coefficient of .14 and traveling at 1500fps will have 8.5" of drop at 150yds with a 100yd zero.

As I said, full steam .44Mag loads are going to cut that to 4-5".

So I'm curious as to what .44-40 load do you think "carries a bit further"?