Question about courthouses

[keeleon]

OK, so I went to hand in an application for employment at my local courthouse today, and of course you can't even go file paperwork without passing the metal detector. I don't have a CCW but I do carry various knives and multitools with me, so of course I had to go back out to the car, and dump it all.

When I was in there it got me to thinking. First off, "Dam wouldn't it be easy to go on stabbing spree with a pencil"? And second, why do cops get to carry their guns in courthouses. One of the biggest arguments I have heard against carrying a gun is that it can be taken from you and used on you. Considering that that is actually pretty true, why aren't the cops required to leave their guns outside too? Are they incapable of being disarmed? If they are so sure that no one can get in with a weapon, then what is the purpose for them to have them? Of course, I know the answer, but it made me chuckle a little.

Also, as a side note, does anyone know if those spydercards (thin edged titanium size of credit card) can be seen in a wallet by an X-ray? I certainly am not asking for advice on how to break the law, and I know they pass through metal detectors (like hundreds of other "weapons"), but I was curious if it would stand out.

 

[Pat-inCO]

The "no guns, knives, etc." is standard for court houses. The reasoning that I've heard is that there are so many situations with EXTREMELY high emotional content that the courts feel safer without weapons being available.

As far as the Police/SO carrying, that's part of their job. I very seriously doubt you will ever see a PD or SO with their gun, if they are part of the suit being handled.

 

[WayneConrad]

One of the biggest arguments I have heard against carrying a gun is that it can be taken from you and used on you. Considering that that is actually pretty true...

That is actually not "pretty true."

The police are in the most danger of having their weapon taken and used against them because they deliberately close and grapple with bad guys. Note that it is their holstered weapon that they must guard against being taken, not their deployed weapon--which is why police have special holsters and extra training in how to prevent holstered weapons from being taken.

To take a deployed weapon without getting shot is, I believe, doable, but extremely risky, even with training. The idea that a gun will "just be taken from me and used against me" is pure myth.

Otherwise, why would cops carry guns? They could just easily take them from the bad guys.

Otherwise, would would bad guys carry guns? They could just easily take them from the cops.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

They carry guns because they know everyone being disarmed would create a shooting gallery. No guns by anyone involved in a trial/in the courtroom might not be a bad idea for the reasons Pat mentioned. I've seen family members of victims jump over barricades and start pounding on defendants before several baliffs pull him off after "not guilty" verdicts.
I don't like being disarmed so I make it a point to stay out of those places.

 

[keeleon]

why they have them. It's because they full well understand that it is not a safe place. So, it just frustrates me that they make me disarm myself in a place that they admit is unsafe. It also means that they aren't sure that people are disarmed. Would a cop ever pull a gun on someone in a crowded courtroom that is going to strangle a judge or lawyer? Doesn't seem like a good idea to me. why not give them all tasers in courthouses instead?

Guess I'm just venting that since they are admitting they can't stop it from being a dangerous place, why should I have to be disarmed?

 

[grumpycoconut]

Cops carry guns in court because there are criminals there. Except of course in federal courts. Federal court judges are really really afraid of people with guns, especially those that work for the government and have permission to carry guns.

 

[BozemanMT]

Our government is afraid of it's citizens.
That's clearly the reason.

I had to go down to boulder county courthouse/sheriff's office a few weeks ago. First you have to park a million miles away because no one can park close (bomb??? i guess, I dunno)
Then you have to go thru the metal detector, even taking out your cell phone and keys to go thru the scanner manned by an armed sheriff deputy.

Then you go to talk to the clerks (not court, just records) and they are protected by bullet proof glass with the little hole to talk thru like some downtown gas station and of course there are cops and deputies and bailiffs all over.

If everyone is disarmed, why do they need the big glass protection? (and this is a newish 10 years old or so) building, so it's not there from 50 years ago.

Doesn't have much at all to do with safety, has to do with control.

 

[brickeyee]

In some jurisdiction ONLY the bailiffs are allowed to have weapons.
Regular police that enter the court are disarmed.

 

[bill in IN]

Seems to be a recent idea that has been almost universally adopted- you can only exercise one of your rights at a time. If you want to exercise your right to redress in the courts- you give up your right to bear arms. If you want to practice your religion- you give up your right to bear arms and most of your right to free speech.

I could go on but I want to keep this in the firearm related area.....

 

[Pat-inCO]

Then you go to talk to the clerks (not court, just records) and they are protected by bullet proof glass with the little hole to talk thru like some downtown gas station and of course there are cops and deputies and bailiffs all over.

If everyone is disarmed, why do they need the big glass protection? (and this is a newish 10 years old or so) building, so it's not there from 50 years ago.

Take note of the fact that there are seldom armed deputies in the records area (I know the place and the people in there). Second, remember that in the Peoplez Republic there are a lot of real dummies that think nothing of jumping over the counter if they don't like something/anything. With the glass in place, they can jump and then end up on the floor on their posterior, rather than in the records area.

P.S. The building is over twenty five years old. Look all the way back to the right, that's where dispatch was for several years. Now it's on 30th street waiting for the completion of the new Sheriff's office building on Valmont.

 

[flag2442]

I am disarmed every time I enter my county courthouse (non federal) in uniform....but not my local city court. The descision was left up to the judges and they chose to disarm everyone.

flag2442

 

[keyhole]

Standard for courts around here. If in uniform, you can carry, and the judges have no problem with that. Even had several take the CCH class.

 

[keeleon]

Huh, I didn't know that there were actually districts that disarmed the LEO inside a courthouse too. I thought I was just being a smart ass. I really have no problem wit them being armed, I was just curious about what that led to in a logical conclusion. Honestly, I would rather them be armed inside if I can't be. There are so many of them, that some stupid shenanigans would get taken care of pretty quickly anyway.

So, I had to go down to a different courthouse to try and drop off an application this morning. Couldn't find any "help desk", had to wait 45 minutes in a line just to get inside to ask where I needed to drop it off. Of course I left everything in the car except my Swisschamp:banghead:. So I had to go back to my car ten minutes away and wait another 20 minutes in line, just so they could tell me that I couldn't leave it there. I finally found someone who had any idea where I was supposed to go about an hour later

Puts a lot of faith in the justice system, when you can ask 10 employees where the "human resources" department is, and if they speak english, they still don't have an idea where THEY went to get THEIR job!

 

[geekWithA.45]

The law in PA specifies that secure lockers must be made available for LTCF holders to stash their guns & gear.

Not every courthouse actually does this, but it's the right idea.

 

[jakemccoy]

I've seen some pretty wild emotions flying around inside the courthouse. I'm pretty much ok with the no weapons policy in there because I'm confident with my local courthouses' abilities to detect firearms. Anybody who is on the opposite end of the spectrum I suspect does not have much experience in criminal court.

I trust myself and others like me to carry, but how could you draw the line? For the good of the whole, I'm ok with being neutered for court, as long as others are neutered. As others may have suggested, there are still ways to protect yourself in a courthouse. I will not explain on a public forum.