Question about flying with firearms

[jprimero]

I'm planning in flying from IL to CA and plan on bringing two pistols with me. I've been reading through the older threads on this and wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything. Since I'm not going to be flying with any ammunition, I'm ignoring any/all restrictions on it. Let me know if I've got something wrong or if you have any thoughts/suggestions.

First up, checking in:
1. inform airline agent I'd like to declare an unloaded firearm
2. receive and fill out card/form declaring unloaded firearm
3. depending on airline/agent demonstrate firearm is unloaded (unlock/lock case as needed)
4. place card in case and lock
5. wait for TSA escort to screening
6. wait for screening

Second, the case itself. It has to be a hard-sided case that is locked with non-TSA locks and can't be readily pried open. Only I should have the key (or know the combination) to the locks.

Third, put contact info (name, number, address) on and in the case.

I'm planning on using a small metal case like this

and while I probably could check the metal case by itself, I'd like to place it in a larger and less obvious piece of luggage and check them both
for example:

or


If I go this case in a case route, how can/should I secure the outer piece of luggage?
TSA lock? Non-TSA lock?
Are there restrictions on the outer piece of luggage? Can I use either of my examples?


Edit:
Some useful links that I've been looking over.
http://deviating.net/firearms/packing/
http://deviating.net/firearms/packing/report.html
http://www.fuertecases.com/firearms-airline-transportation-guidelines.htm
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

 

[TexasRifleman]

If I go this case in a case route, how can/should I secure the outer piece of luggage?
TSA lock? Non-TSA lock?
Are there restrictions on the outer piece of luggage? Can I use either of my examples?

The outer suitcase can be locked with a TSA lock if you want. The inner case must be locked and you and ONLY you are to retain the key or combination so TSA locks on the inner case are a no-no, as you say.

I've never seen any restriction on the type of outer bag you can use for this.

Also, might check the baggage section of the particular airline you will be using, some of them add restrictions but most seem to be around how they handle ammo, which isn't a concern for you.

I don't know what you mean by wait for TSA escort to screening, maybe that's an Illinois thing. I've never had that one.

Other than that you've pretty much got it. I fly with handguns regularly and it's rarely a big deal.

One thing that you mention is the showing unloaded. I've found that it's much less stressful on the ticket agent to have the guns disassembled (if autos) before I get to the airport. They seem to be much happier and therefore friendlier when I open the case and all they see is a pile of metal parts

 

[AirForceShooter]

Make very sure you're legal in California.
Very sure

AFS

 

[gmark340]

Your gun case looks fine but will you be taking any ammo or picking it up once you arrive? You can ship ammo with your guns (if you have room!) if it is in the original box or if it's in a magazine that is in a mag pouch (ie, the open end of the magazine is covered). As an alternative to disassembling your guns, I always had good experiences at both the check-in counter and with the TSA agents when I present a gun with a cable lock threaded through either the barrel or the mag well and out the ejection port. Then even someone who knows nothing about guns can get a sense that it is "safe." As to "contact name and number," I don't put that anywhere. The only way to identify me is from the bar code the ticket agent puts on the case. Knock wood, I have never had a problem or even a second glance doing it this way.

 

[SeekHer]

May I suggest you contact the airline's baggage dept. and see what their rules are as not every airline plays the same!

It matters not what the outer case is but the lockable case your firearms are in...I have put them is hard sided, soft sided and parachute cloth bags but again it depends upon the airline in question and even more importantly destination...

 

[BBQLS1]

Be aware of the magazine restrictions in CA.

 

[tulsamal]

I recently flew with a handgun from Tulsa to Dallas. It went smoothly.

There was no Step 5 or 6. I showed them the gun, put the filled out card inside, put the gun case inside my larger suitcase, then they checked it with everybody else's bags. At the other end, it came out with all the others.

I had a factory box of CorBons in the gun case.

It really wasn't a problem.

Gregg

 

[jprimero]

Thanks for all the responses!

I don't know what you mean by wait for TSA escort to screening, maybe that's an Illinois thing. I've never had that one.

Yeah, I wasn't totally sure about this. It seems some airports/airlines will scan/screen your bag right after you fill out the card and lock your case. In these instances, some people have reported that they've had to wait for a TSA employee to escort them (and their case(s)) to a security station away from the "main" entrance.

One thing that you mention is the showing unloaded. I've found that it's much less stressful on the ticket agent to have the guns disassembled (if autos) before I get to the airport. They seem to be much happier and therefore friendlier when I open the case and all they see is a pile of metal parts

I'm debating whether I want to field strip my guns or just feed a cable lock through the mag well/ejection port. I'd guess the agents would be happy with either solution.

Make very sure you're legal in California.
Very sure
AFS

As far as I'm aware, the two pistols I'm planning on bringing (Sprinfield XD40 and S&W Model 41) are CA legal. The mags I have for both pistols are CA legal as well.

Your gun case looks fine but will you be taking any ammo or picking it up once you arrive?

I'll be picking up ammo once I reach my destination. Since this will be my first time flying with firearms, I figured I'd take it easy and lessen the chance of some airport employee causing a fuss because he didn't like me, my luggage or the fact that I'm flying with firearms.

As an alternative to disassembling your guns, I always had good experiences at both the check-in counter and with the TSA agents when I present a gun with a cable lock threaded through either the barrel or the mag well and out the ejection port. Then even someone who knows nothing about guns can get a sense that it is "safe."

I'm leaning towards the cable lock since I'd rather not chance losing a pin or spring if/when the TSA decides to do a closer inspection of my case.

As to "contact name and number," I don't put that anywhere. The only way to identify me is from the bar code the ticket agent puts on the case. Knock wood, I have never had a problem or even a second glance doing it this way.

Although I'd rather not advertise my name, phone, address, etc., I'm thinking of this as a safety net if the TSA needs to open my case.

We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain present during screening to take the key back after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft.

 

[Millwright]

Don't get diverted to NJ !! >MW

 

[GHF]

Rules in a Nutshell

Having traveled a number of times, here's how I go at it:

1. Review http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm to understand TSA policies and procedures. Have a copy with you when you reach the airport.
2. Put the unloaded weapon(s) in a lockable hard-sided case with locks only you have the keys/combination to open. TSA locks are not allowed.
3. Steps that will make it easier to show that the weapon is unloaded - especially when x-rayed.
   • If the weapon is a:
     • semi-automatic
       • lock the slide open
       • put a cable tie through the barrel and out the breach to show that the chamber is empty
     • revolver, flip the cylinder out
   • Do not put the magazines in this locked case with the gun(s):
     • it invites questions about them being loaded
     • if the gun case is "liberated" from the checked bag by a Criminal Entrepreneur, the lack of magazines frustrates the "Liberator", since the weapon is now initially a single shot one
4. Check the airline(s) you are flying on:
   • To determine if the ammo
     • MUST be in boxes (plastic reload boxes work)
     • can fly in loaded magazines
   • If loaded magazines are permitted, make sure the pouches fully cover the magazines
   • The round(s) from the chamber(s)/cylinder(s) must be in a box, not loose
5. Secure and protect magazines (separately from the weapon) and ammunition boxes from possible damage.
6. Put the lockable hard-sided case with the weapon and the ammo/magazines into a cheap, non-descript bag - with clear labeling outside and inside - for checking in.
   • If possible, develop a way to attach - in a lockable way - the hard-sided case to the piece of luggage it has been placed into.
   • The labeling should be limited to:
     • Your Name
     • Your Cell Phone - if you have one, or your home phone if you do not
     • Your personal email address - if you have one
     • NO ADDRESSES, JOB TITLES, ORGANIZATIONS SHOULD BE INDICATED
7. Other stuff - like shampoo, mouthwash, toothpaste, etc, could be in this checked bag also.
8. Have the rules for the airline in hand when you check this non-descript bag at the airport.
9. Make sure you have the keys/combinations to the lockable hard-sided case with you and you alone (Per Federal Regulations 49CFR § 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals - http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...v8&view=text&node=49:9.1.3.5.9.2.10.6&idno=49) at all times. You will have to open the lockable hard-side case:
   • to demonstrate to the airline that the weapon(s) are not loaded at check in (a signed form/tag indicating that will go in with the weapon(s))
   • if the TSA wants to see
10. Have the serial number(s) and descriptions of your weapons on you, so if they "disappear" you can report the loss/theft immediately to the:
    • airline
    • FAA Regional Office
    • ATF Regional Office

Other things to consider:

1. Check www.handgunlaw.us and/or http://apps.carryconcealed.net/packngo/index.php to determine:
   • If you can possess the weapon at all your stops
   • Where and how you can carry at all your stops
   • What are the deadly force rules in each state you are visiting
2. Have a copy of the Don Young Transportation Letter on hand - http://www.anjrpc.org/DefendingYourRights/us letter.pdf. This covers changing modes of travel - car to plane to car - in a single journey.

 

[Drail]

Know the laws in every city you are scheduled to land in or MAY be diverted to. It's very easy to end up in a bad place.

 

[Mojo-jo-jo]

Give yourself LOTS of extra time between check-in and the flight. I used to fly weekly for work, and often took a firearm with me. I would occasionally be paged because TSA wanted me to open the gun case. At most airports, this would involve leaving the secure area and going back out to the ticket counter to be escorted to the airline baggage office and then escorted to the TSA baggage screening area to provide key for opening the gun case. This usually would take 45min-1hour. One time, I asked what would happen if I did not appear when paged and the TSA agent stated that the bag would not be placed on the flight and that I would have to buy another ticket to come back and retrieve it.

Never had any serious issues, just be sure you carefully read and understand the airline checked baggage rules for firearms, as well as the TSA rules.

 

[armsmaster270]

I trusted TSA to relock my case after secondary inspection and he put the locks on and never snapped the shackles closed. My gun case arrived inside my hardside luggage unlocked.

 

[danbrew]

Honest? I wouldn't bring guns to California. You say "as far as I am aware" the pistols you are bringing are CA legal. You realize that their list is model specific, right? As in if you bring in a S&W Model 41-3 and they tested a Model 41-2, you're screwed, right?

Chances of you getting busted are slim - whether you'd be faced with an exam or whether you'd be out of compliance, but who needs the hassle?

My $0.02.

 

[TexasRifleman]

. You say "as far as I am aware" the pistols you are bringing are CA legal. You realize that their list is model specific, right? As in if you bring in a S&W Model 41-3 and they tested a Model 41-2, you're screwed, right?

No, the law around the "list" relates to what is allowable for sale in California, not what you can own. As long as you don't try to sell the thing, and you take it with you when you leave, the "list" does not apply here.

Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.

 

[Keb]

You plan on buying ammo there? Good Luck.

 

[Coronach]

The above advice is good. I STRONGLY advise printing off the airline's own rules for what can and can't go in checked luggage and in the case with the firearm. I have had several polite arguments with ticket agents about ammunition and how it needs to be packed. The one time I failed to print off the policy I had to take my ammo out of my Starlight case and place it in my soft sided luggage, because it was "safer".

Mike

 

[harrygunner]

You can take ammo with you.

Using a separate locked box, there has been NO questions about how my ammo is packaged.

I paid less than $10 for a security box from Office Depot. It's a small (7in x 7in x 2in) metal box with a lock on it. There's room for two or three ammo boxes after discarding the plastic inserts it comes with. I place my ammo in factory ammo boxes, like the ones the ammo came in. Then, lock the ammo boxes in the security box.

Besides, if you find ammo in California, you're going to have to deal with getting it back to Illinois. Or are you going to discard it before your return flight?

 

[John Parker]

The only 'bad' experience I've ever had flying with firearms was in Denver. The TSA guy wanted me to sign a statement saying that my gun was locked up after they opened the box to verify that it was unloaded. I refused to do so until my case was re-opened in my presence and I could ensure that it was there. Other than that, it's been hassle-freee.

 

[armsmaster270]

There is no problem buying ammo in CA and if you have the weapon legally there should be no problem going back with ammo. I have gone to VT, Chicago, Boston with no problem other than my previous post. The ammo bill signed by the Governator doesn't take effect until 2011.

 

[Deanimator]

Flying with Rifles

I'm going hunting in Missouri next month and will be taking a rifle for myself and one for the friend with whom I'll be hunting, since he'll be leaving from a conference in D.C.. I'll be flying on Southwest. Most comments I've seen have related to flying with handguns in cases which could be put in other luggage.

My guns will be in a couple of the large plastic Doskocil type locking rifle cases.

I have the keys and the locks work.

Does anyone have any suggestions regarding flying with these guns, apart from the basics which have been covered elsewhere?

Would some kind of cable lock in addition to the built-in locks be advised? How about ammunition in the cases?

I haven't flown since before 9/11, and have never flown with guns before.

 

[Sav .250]

Most Airlines have all the information ref weapons listed on their web-sites.

 

[GonHuntin]

My guns will be in a couple of the large plastic Doskocil type locking rifle cases.

Southwest allows 2 free bags, they allow you to check a rifle case as one of those free bags, even if the case is oversize........you may have to pay for the second case and it won't be cheap. If you put both rifles in one case you can avoid a potential oversize baggage charge.....you can probably buy a two rifle case for about what the oversize/extra bag charge will be.

 

[Deanimator]

Most Airlines have all the information ref weapons listed on their web-sites.

I couldn't find it on theirs before I asked. I was going to print it out.

Update: I just found it. It's not obvious, and I still couldn't find a "search" function.

 

[swinokur]

I have a short cable with loops on each end. I cable the locked pistol box to the inside of my suitcase and lock with a large padlock. That way they have to stay together. The pistol box can't be removed from my suitcase until I unlock the cable.

Stu