Question about FTF in Iowa

[Tim the student]

So, I'm selling a pistol to a friend of a friend. My friend lives near me, the other friend lives a couple hours away.

Is it legal for my friend to hand carry the pistol to his friend, get a receipt & copy of his permit, and bring the cash back to me?

Right now, I'm planning on erring on the side of caution and figuring out a time to meet the guy I'm selling it to halfway. But, my friend will be going that way this weekend, and it would be much more convenient for all of us to have my friend act as an intermediary.

What say the experts?

 

[61Woody]

I'm no expert so you will want to check with someone from an official office but I would not have your friend do it as he does not own the gun. You do not need to have to have a receipt although that is a good idea and how I have done it just to CYA in case the gun is ever used in a crime. All that is required is the purchaser show you his permit to purchase and or carry.

 

[hermannr]

Sell the gun to your friend, then he can sell it to his friend. You are not under FFL restrictions, you are a private person. Right?

In Iowa you need a purchase permit? What law is that? None that I've read. IL, NY, NJ or MA maybe, but Iowa?

 

[Tim the student]

Yeah, you either need a permit to purchase or a permit to carry to buy a handgun. Nothing is needed for long guns. It sucks, but it is what it is until we can change it. At least we are shall issue now, so we are moving in the right direction.

I know no receipt is needed, but I will be getting one.

Hermanrr - sounds like that would be a straw purchase to me.

 

[bikemutt]

Hermanrr - sounds like that would be a straw purchase to me.

What if instead of a gun it was a lawnmower?

Assuming this is all intrastate, unless you are buying/selling the gun to/from a FFL dealer, or knowingly selling the gun to a prohibited person, it's pretty much a lawnmower.

That said, some states may impose further limitations on the transfer of firearms between private citizens, and that should certainly be taken into account.

 

[Tim the student]

What if instead of a gun it was a lawnmower?

Then I wouldn't be worried about gun laws. But, unfortunately, it is a gun, and not a lawnmower.

That said, some states may impose further limitations on the transfer of firearms between private citizens, and that should certainly be taken into account.

Which is what I'm trying to do.

 

[bikemutt]

That's all fine but you suggested it may be a straw purchase; how so if it doesn't involve an FFL or selling to a felon?

 

[Tim the student]

how so if it doesn't involve an FFL or selling to a felon?

I'm not sure - you may be right, now that I think about it, given that no 4473 is in play. At any rate, no party in the transaction has the desire to do that at this point in time.

FWIW, I don't have an 01 FFL, but I do have an 03, which I think has no bearing on the matter.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

Your 03 FFL is irrelevant. Erring on the side of caution is a good thing. Handle your business personally, not through someone else.

 

[Mobuck]

It's only a "straw purchase" if the ultimate buyer is not legally able to buy the firearm. I think a simple signed statement to the fact that the buyer is legitimate should CYA all parties but I'm not a BATFlap agent.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

but I do have an 03, which I think has no bearing on the matter.

If the weapon would qualify as c/r--it would need to be logged as a transfer in your bound book. And if that is the case, don't proceed with an intermediary. In any case, I'd meet the buyer face to face if it were me. Probably much worry about nothing in fact, but if anything ever happens (ie. a serious crime) with that weapon it looks iffy.

 

[BSA1]

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck it is a duck.

Sure looks like a "straw man" sale to me. Your friend not selling the gun for himself, is not the owner or dealer and is assuming both you and the buyer can legally own a gun or don't care.

Heck of a friend to risk arrest and jail time.

 

[bikemutt]

It's only a "straw purchase" if the ultimate buyer is not legally able to buy the firearm.

When buying a gun from a FFL dealer, it's a straw purchase if the transferee/buyer is not the actual buyer, it doesn't matter what the reason for this circumstance is. If the actual buyer is a prohibited person that would count as a reason, as would the actual buyer being on vacation in Hawaii.

With a private sale, at least as far as the feds are concerned, the 4473 straw purchase standard above does not apply. I guess it's fine to call it a straw purchase because it is the same act, it's just not unlawful.

Edit: it's not unlawful in a private sale unless the intent is to furnish a prohibited person with a gun, or cause some other crime to be committed.

 

[Tim the student]

If the weapon would qualify as c/r--it would need to be logged as a transfer in your bound book

I'm aware, and it isn't.

 

[smalls]

If you sell a gun to your friend, and he then sells it to his friend, how is it a straw purchase?

It's is completely, 100% legal to do so. Now, if his friend handed him some cash, said go to the gun shop and buy me a gun, that is a straw sale.

I also see no problem in your friend taking the gun to his friend to sell, except that on the permit to purchase may require the sellers signature. I know it does here in MI.

 

[JEB]

I also see no problem in your friend taking the gun to his friend to sell, except that on the permit to purchase may require the sellers signature. I know it does here in MI.

it wont here in IA. the permit to purchase is just a generic permit that is good for one year and for any number of handgun purchases. the only signatures that will ever be on it is the permit holder's and that person's county sheriff's.

 

[NavyLCDR]

The only problem I see is that the friend in the middle would have to have his own purchase permit or carry permit to receive the gun.

Seller gives friend the gun, because friend has the carry or purchase permit. Friend sells the gun to the final recipient, who also has a purchase or carry permit. Friend brings back 90% of the cash back to the original seller and keeps 10% for his services. No laws are broken as long as all three parties are Iowa residents and nobody knows or has reason to believe the friend or ultimate buyer are prohibited and this is truly a casual sale that happens infrequently.

Obviously the friend cannot be in engaged in the business of being a middle man for delivering guns with the intention of making livelihood with it.