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Question about how to handle a bad internet gun deal

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LoneStarWings

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Jan 27, 2009
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Hi,

I ordered a Noveske upper 2 years ago from an internet dealer - this was right after sandy hook, the upper was a really nice one so it was $1500. I followed up every 6 months or so only to be told "still on the waiting list".

Finally, after I emailed him last week, he tells me, sorry, I've gone bankrupt and can't refund your money. You can have these other assorted items (nothing that I want) but I can't refund your money and you won't get your upper.

It's obviously my fault for being a dumbass trusting this person and paying up front, going off their supposedly good reputation. Do I have any recourse other than just to take the other crap I don't want?
 
You have my greatest, sincerest sympathies.
I assume that you don't have a credit card-based recourse?
Did you pay for that internet deal with a cash instrument?
I wouldn't have waited two years to start shaking some bushes.
 
I'm in the process of retrieving my old statements to get the exact purchase date, since the transaction was made over the phone.
 
Tell the credit card company that you ordered custom made goods, with delivery in the future, and were just notified that the seller is in bankruptcy proceedings and will not deliver.

The seller is not supposed to charge you until the goods ship, but that's water over the dam.
 
If the bankruptcy is legit....I'm thinking you should take the junk you don't want to sell to recoup something.. It's not looking good otherwise..
 
Out of these things, what has the best chance of resale? And are the prices reasonable? I haven't really been shooting a lot in the past year. The ones that interst me most are the RMR04, Aimpoint Patrols, and MUR-1A, and maybe the M&P VTAC.

(1) Smith and Wesson M&P VTAC .40 pistol - $600
(1) Surefire FA762SS suppressor (black) - $1,400
(1) Surefire SOCOM Mini 5.56 suppressor (tan) -$1,100
(3) Surefire SOCOM 1/2x28 flash hiders $90 each
(3) Noveske 16" cold hammer forged barrels - $375 each
(3) Douglas 16" Recon CH barrels - $285 each
(2) Aimpoint Patrol Rifle Optics - $390 each
(1) Trijicon RMR RM04 $390
(1) VLTOR MUR-1A - $150
(1) VLTOR Imod stock (black) - $80
(1) VLTOR Imod stock (tan) - $80
(50) Magpul 30round Pmags - $10 each
(1) Magpul CTR stock (black) - $50
(2) Magpul MOE stocks (black) - $30 each
(4) LMT Semi bolt carrier groups - $135 each
(1) WMD nickel boron coated bolt carrier group $175
(4) Smith and Wesson M&P 45 10 round magazines - $25 each
 
I hate to say it but I am not sure how much recourse you have with the cc company. I think they will only work with you within a 90 day window. Some people know this and will use that accordingly to scam you. It may even be less than that now but either way after 2 years they most likely won't even hear your case.
 
LoneStarWings said:
Out of these things, what has the best chance of resale? And are the prices reasonable? I haven't really been shooting a lot in the past year. The ones that interst me most are the RMR04, Aimpoint Patrols, and MUR-1A, and maybe the M&P VTAC.

(1) Smith and Wesson M&P VTAC .40 pistol - $600
(1) Surefire FA762SS suppressor (black) - $1,400
(1) Surefire SOCOM Mini 5.56 suppressor (tan) -$1,100
(3) Surefire SOCOM 1/2x28 flash hiders $90 each
(3) Noveske 16" cold hammer forged barrels - $375 each
(3) Douglas 16" Recon CH barrels - $285 each
(2) Aimpoint Patrol Rifle Optics - $390 each
(1) Trijicon RMR RM04 $390
(1) VLTOR MUR-1A - $150
(1) VLTOR Imod stock (black) - $80
(1) VLTOR Imod stock (tan) - $80
(50) Magpul 30round Pmags - $10 each
(1) Magpul CTR stock (black) - $50
(2) Magpul MOE stocks (black) - $30 each
(4) LMT Semi bolt carrier groups - $135 each
(1) WMD nickel boron coated bolt carrier group $175
(4) Smith and Wesson M&P 45 10 round magazines - $25 each
Click to expand...
Is he going to give you ALL that stuff?
 
Hes going to give me some combination of those things equalling the original value of my deal with him. It was a Noveske 10.5" switchblock. Noveske uppers in general are/were expensive, and the switchblock made it moreso because it was something I wanted to use with my 5.56 suppressor. Plus, this was weeks after sandy hook, so you can imagine how it might've seemed like an OK deal at the time, then John Noveske passed away a few weeks after the order.
 
Last edited:
The first step would be to contact the Federal Bankruptcy Court for his city/state and see if he has a filing on record.

If so he could be in deep do-do with the Court if he did not declare the merchandise he is offering you as assets when he filed for bankruptcy. Judges do not like being lied too.
 
LoneStarWings said:
Out of these things, what has the best chance of resale? And are the prices reasonable? I haven't really been shooting a lot in the past year. The ones that interst me most are the RMR04, Aimpoint Patrols, and MUR-1A, and maybe the M&P VTAC.

(1) Smith and Wesson M&P VTAC .40 pistol - $600
(1) Surefire FA762SS suppressor (black) - $1,400
(1) Surefire SOCOM Mini 5.56 suppressor (tan) -$1,100
(3) Surefire SOCOM 1/2x28 flash hiders $90 each
(3) Noveske 16" cold hammer forged barrels - $375 each
(3) Douglas 16" Recon CH barrels - $285 each
(2) Aimpoint Patrol Rifle Optics - $390 each
(1) Trijicon RMR RM04 $390
(1) VLTOR MUR-1A - $150
(1) VLTOR Imod stock (black) - $80
(1) VLTOR Imod stock (tan) - $80
(50) Magpul 30round Pmags - $10 each
(1) Magpul CTR stock (black) - $50
(2) Magpul MOE stocks (black) - $30 each
(4) LMT Semi bolt carrier groups - $135 each
(1) WMD nickel boron coated bolt carrier group $175
(4) Smith and Wesson M&P 45 10 round magazines - $25 each
Click to expand...
I don't know if I could trust him to hold a suppressor. The 7.62 suppressor is worth it along with something else to total $1500 but I'd want it shipped to a Class 3 dealer that isn't going through bankruptcy, while the paperwork goes through - if you'd want to keep it.
 
Your unsecured debt in the eyes of the bankruptcy court. Sorry but your probably not going to get far if they really did file. Ask for a case number and research it on Pacer
 
BTW, I researched this company and there is nothing meantioned on their site about bankruptcy. They still have short uppers listed along with parts. I think this guys trying to dump some unwanted items on you. Put him on the spot and tell him you want the case# or the phone# to his attorney that he filed.
 
A internet vendor who immediately charges your card and then can't ship for months does not equal "good reputation."

After quite a few years of this on the internet many now recommend that if your card is immediately charged without accompanying shipment you cancel the order and prepare to inform your card company to refuse the charge.

You can't do it past a certain amount of time, and the less than honest vendors know it - so they make excuses to delay your response.

Consider that the vendor may be offering you nothing more than false promises of restitution and he doesn't plan to ship anything. If he is in bankruptcy then his store stock is 100% committed to the parties first in line who are holding liens against his capital. So how is he offering merchandise to you as a creditor unknown to the court?

As said - you need a lawyer, unfortunately most won't work for peanuts and have a minimum charge. In my area the financial damages need to amount to over $10K to get their attention.

Your better move is to actually find what court and judge his alleged bankruptcy is proceeding in to discover what little recourse you may already have lost.
 
"experience" is what you get when you don't get what you wanted.

Considering the size of the loss, there is little you can do that won't cost you more than the "loss".

you can try the CC company .... but after THREE years don't expect much
 
If the bankruptcy is legit, bankruptcy is bankruptcy (relief from creditors--including you).

I was on another internet forum where someone was outraged, OUTRAGED
 that the business owner in another state had purchased a web domain would give him free stuff.

Mike
 
My advice would be to get what stuff you can... quickly!! Before its gone and there is nothing left.

I don't flip stuff but the M&P seems like you could turn quick and the M&P 45 mags you could sell pretty quick for $20.


And I don't want to be the wet blanket but Id be a little concerned about 'flipping' any guns. Good thing you haven't publically said that yet.
 
If he filed bankruptcy he doesn't have to give you ANYTHING. Take the advice and get what you can out of him. He sounds like a decent fellow to give you stuff when he doesn't have to. Bankruptcy law protects him.
 
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