I have recently completed my 3rd handgun class. With all 3, I've learned a great deal & feel I'm a much better shooter than before. Each class was conducted by immensely qualified, but different instructors. There were many similarities in their philosophies, but there were major differences as well. Should a student train with someone very good & use their methods exclusively or learn from other very good instructors & develop a unique style constructed by many?
Question About Training
- Thread starter ta4
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BADUNAME13
Member
No one knows all.
Gather wisdom wherever you can find it.
The most any one can have is 'A piece of the puzzle'
-If I may steal that line from James Yeager.
Gather wisdom wherever you can find it.
The most any one can have is 'A piece of the puzzle'
-If I may steal that line from James Yeager.
Nio
Member
The study and practice of Martial Arts - and Gunfighting is one of those arts - is very literally the Art of all Arts.
You will read many books. You will meet many trainers and instructors. You will read things on the internet, in magazines, and other media. You will hear things. You will discover secret teachings. Mystic teachers will come to you - in the past, in the present, and in the future - and will divulge amazing secrets to you. Beings from other worlds, other realms, other planes of existance - both from the past and from the future - will appear to you at various times and instruct you in things that you cannot begin to comprehend at this point. You will be taken away in visions. You will be bodily transported to other places - both on and off this planet - and shown things that are impossible to describe....
...and all of it - ALL OF IT - will be complete crap.
This is the primary lesson. This is the lesson above all other lessons.
The only teacher in the practice of Gunfighting that can be trusted is you yourself. I do not care what you read, see, hear, or know. I do not care if you study for a million years and can elucidate on the Ten Thousand Methods. None of it has any meaning whatsoever.
The only thing that matters is your own personal practice and experience. The only things you can know are the things that you prove to yourself through direct experience.
To that end, instructors are only a mirror.
An Old Dead Guy Said:
"Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto."
This is the primary lesson. This is the lesson above all other lessons.
The study of Martial Arts is the Study of Yourself. The practice of Martial Arts is the Practice of Yourself.
Many students of all arts make a terrible mistake. They make a terrible mistake because their teachers make a terrible mistake. The teachers all tell a lie: "THIS IS THE WAY!", and the student believes it. The teachers mislead the students because they have mislead themselves.
How can anyone at all teach you about your own self?
Do not make this mistake. Do not believe this lie. Study carefully. Practice well. LISTEN to yourself. PAY ATTENTION to the lessons that you teach yourself.
I use a parable for this.
You meet the greatest sorcerer that ever lived - or ever will live - and you observe him make certain motions and speak a certain magic spell and a mountain moves from one place to another because of it.
You could spend the rest of eternity making that motion and speaking that spell and nothing would ever happen. Not even a grain of sand would budge. Why? Because the motion and the spell are not about the mountain. The motion and the spell are about - and unique to - the sorcerer.
Do not pay attention to the magic of others. Focus solely on your own magic, and YOU will be that sorcerer.
Nio
You will read many books. You will meet many trainers and instructors. You will read things on the internet, in magazines, and other media. You will hear things. You will discover secret teachings. Mystic teachers will come to you - in the past, in the present, and in the future - and will divulge amazing secrets to you. Beings from other worlds, other realms, other planes of existance - both from the past and from the future - will appear to you at various times and instruct you in things that you cannot begin to comprehend at this point. You will be taken away in visions. You will be bodily transported to other places - both on and off this planet - and shown things that are impossible to describe....
...and all of it - ALL OF IT - will be complete crap.
This is the primary lesson. This is the lesson above all other lessons.
The only teacher in the practice of Gunfighting that can be trusted is you yourself. I do not care what you read, see, hear, or know. I do not care if you study for a million years and can elucidate on the Ten Thousand Methods. None of it has any meaning whatsoever.
The only thing that matters is your own personal practice and experience. The only things you can know are the things that you prove to yourself through direct experience.
To that end, instructors are only a mirror.
An Old Dead Guy Said:
"Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto."
This is the primary lesson. This is the lesson above all other lessons.
The study of Martial Arts is the Study of Yourself. The practice of Martial Arts is the Practice of Yourself.
Many students of all arts make a terrible mistake. They make a terrible mistake because their teachers make a terrible mistake. The teachers all tell a lie: "THIS IS THE WAY!", and the student believes it. The teachers mislead the students because they have mislead themselves.
How can anyone at all teach you about your own self?
Do not make this mistake. Do not believe this lie. Study carefully. Practice well. LISTEN to yourself. PAY ATTENTION to the lessons that you teach yourself.
I use a parable for this.
You meet the greatest sorcerer that ever lived - or ever will live - and you observe him make certain motions and speak a certain magic spell and a mountain moves from one place to another because of it.
You could spend the rest of eternity making that motion and speaking that spell and nothing would ever happen. Not even a grain of sand would budge. Why? Because the motion and the spell are not about the mountain. The motion and the spell are about - and unique to - the sorcerer.
Do not pay attention to the magic of others. Focus solely on your own magic, and YOU will be that sorcerer.
Nio
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
I can't improve on what Nio said, so I won't try.
Good words and good advice, Nio.
Good words and good advice, Nio.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
ta4,
You are a unique individual. You have specific strengths and weaknesses, advantages and disadvantages, abilities and disabilities. There is no 'one size fits all' for training.
The best instructors are first and foremost perpetual students themselves. Good instructors will tell you they don't know it all. Good instructors will tell you there is no one best way to do anything, and will strongly suggest you train with as many other instructors as you can manage, learn from each of them, adopt what works best for you and make this melange of philosophies, tactics and techniques your own. Sounds as if you have a good start in that direction- congratulations for doing the work. Just keep it up!
lpl/nc
You are a unique individual. You have specific strengths and weaknesses, advantages and disadvantages, abilities and disabilities. There is no 'one size fits all' for training.
The best instructors are first and foremost perpetual students themselves. Good instructors will tell you they don't know it all. Good instructors will tell you there is no one best way to do anything, and will strongly suggest you train with as many other instructors as you can manage, learn from each of them, adopt what works best for you and make this melange of philosophies, tactics and techniques your own. Sounds as if you have a good start in that direction- congratulations for doing the work. Just keep it up!
lpl/nc
El Tejon
Member
A Master is one who has studied 1,000 techniques and finds 3 that he can use to perfection at any time.
Paraphrase of an adage from the Shao Lin Temple.
Paraphrase of an adage from the Shao Lin Temple.
ShackleMeNot
Member
My advice is to build a base from a good school (maybe 3 or 4 classes) and then go out and seek opinions from other good schools and instructors.
Most shooters will never take that first class. I think the most important thing is to just start some where.
Most shooters will never take that first class. I think the most important thing is to just start some where.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Training from someone who understands your situation and adapts their training to it is also useful. Most of the more effective training is designed as a system and if the total system is based on the background of say... military combat, then some elements don't serve as well for someone defending their house against a late-night break in.
Tactics that are acceptable in one scenario may bring you real problems in another. You may also find that some things you are taught don't work for you because you aren't fighting in infantry combat and you never have the experiences that led them to incorporate that particular method into training to begin with. You may also find that some things (say magazine retention) that are widely taught at a military level, aren't very helpful in a more short-term self-defense situation at close range.
Tactics that are acceptable in one scenario may bring you real problems in another. You may also find that some things you are taught don't work for you because you aren't fighting in infantry combat and you never have the experiences that led them to incorporate that particular method into training to begin with. You may also find that some things (say magazine retention) that are widely taught at a military level, aren't very helpful in a more short-term self-defense situation at close range.
The best instructors are first and foremost perpetual students themselves.
At the most recent class I've taken, there was a student who himself is a very well known instructor. He was very helpful, was most willing to share his knowledge & is an extremely qualified marksman.
At the most recent class I've taken, there was a student who himself is a very well known instructor. He was very helpful, was most willing to share his knowledge & is an extremely qualified marksman.
CountGlockula
Member
From the other replies, it sounds like you should take what you've learned and "find yourself". That works for me.
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