Question Ball Size

[red rick]

I bought a 1851 Navy . I was going to buy the Pietta , but I changed my mind and bought the Uberti . From everything that I have read the Pietta takes a .375 ball and the Uberti a .380 ball . Before buying the revolver I saw .375 round balls on sale so I bought 10 boxes and 10 boxes of caps . Now that I bought the Uberti , would you melt them and recast them to .380 diameter , or smash them just enough to get a good ring peeled off , or just shoot them with a lubed wad and some lube over the ball ?

 

[4v50 Gary]

I think lubing over the ball is overrated. Elmer Keith (as did our senior instructor at Trinidad College gonne-smything) believed that it was loose caps that caused chainfires. Used to be a video where a guy held a torch over the chambers of a loaded cylinder (outside the gun). Nothing went off. Trick is the oversized ball that left a ring sealed the cylinder.

I used to use cornmeal instead of wads. Purpose was to fill the air gap between the powder and the ball.

Pull the nipple and drop a ball into the chamber. See if it leaves a ring. With a flattened nail you can drive it out of the cylinder. Take your micrometer to the ball and then calipers to the chamber. Compare results.

 

[windini]

I bought a 1851 Navy . I was going to buy the Pietta , but I changed my mind and bought the Uberti . From everything that I have read the Pietta takes a .375 ball and the Uberti a .380 ball . Before buying the revolver I saw .375 round balls on sale so I bought 10 boxes and 10 boxes of caps . Now that I bought the Uberti , would you melt them and recast them to .380 diameter , or smash them just enough to get a good ring peeled off , or just shoot them with a lubed wad and some lube over the ball ?

If I had the Uberti and some .375 balls, I would simply try them out first. If I was worried about chain fires, I'd use some lube over the loaded cylinders as a precaution.

If the results were acceptably accurate, I would use the .375 balls until the .380 balls I'd ordered came in, then compare results.

 

[cottonpicker]

I own 2 Uberti 1861 revolvers, both are very accurate with .375 Lee cast 79 gr pure lead balls. They are a tight fit in the cylinders and are easy to load. I like 24 gr BP with an over powder lubed wad.

 

[GRIZ22]

I'd try shooting what you have and judge the results

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

And again with the lead ring thing, it does not need to shave lead off. A .375 ball should work just fine. First thing to do is fix the short arbor on that Uberti. Get the barrel/ cylinder gap set to .002 to .004 so you get the same gun each time you put it together. Chamfer the cylinder mouths just enough to compress the ball without shaving off lead. Do use lube over the ball or use a wad under it with lube between the wad and ball. I know you just got your revolver so shoot it a few times and consider having it tuned, my bench is clear at the moment. If nothing else fix the arbor. I've asked this question before with no answer... can someone show original documented instructions from a revolver manufacturer stating you must shave lead off a ball or bullet?

 

[red rick]

And again with the lead ring thing, it does not need to shave lead off. A .375 ball should work just fine. First thing to do is fix the short arbor on that Uberti. Get the barrel/ cylinder gap set to .002 to .004 so you get the same gun each time you put it together. Chamfer the cylinder mouths just enough to compress the ball without shaving off lead. Do use lube over the ball or use a wad under it with lube between the wad and ball. I know you just got your revolver so shoot it a few times and consider having it tuned, my bench is clear at the moment. If nothing else fix the arbor. I've asked this question before with no answer... can someone show original documented instructions from a revolver manufacturer stating you must shave lead off a ball or bullet?

That is what I did with it before ever firing it . That is good advice though for someone just reading this through . I was just asking the question about the ball size to get a head start from people that have a 1851 Uberti and already discovered what works . No need to start at the beginning if it has already been done . I am not looking for any chain fires or balls working out and jamming the cylinder . I think that I could determine that the ball fits tight if it is shaving a ring . Not saying that will prevent a chain fire though . I have read opinions that they come from loose fitting caps also . By this thread it looks like either could work .

 

[Ugly Sauce]

And again with the lead ring thing, it does not need to shave lead off. A .375 ball should work just fine. First thing to do is fix the short arbor on that Uberti. Get the barrel/ cylinder gap set to .002 to .004 so you get the same gun each time you put it together. Chamfer the cylinder mouths just enough to compress the ball without shaving off lead. Do use lube over the ball or use a wad under it with lube between the wad and ball. I know you just got your revolver so shoot it a few times and consider having it tuned, my bench is clear at the moment. If nothing else fix the arbor. I've asked this question before with no answer... can someone show original documented instructions from a revolver manufacturer stating you must shave lead off a ball or bullet?

Amen! TRUTH! Yes, shoot them and see how they work. Manufacturing tolerances vary, so what ball size it likes best will...wait for it...vary. Yes, getting the pistol "tuned" is worth every single cent, and then some.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Lube over the ball is under-rated. It will keep the barrel so clean, about two patches will completely clean it. Don't mess with smearing greasy kid's stuff over the chamber, make "lube pills". Or...you may already know that. What lube, wads, and rings of lead have to do with chain fires, I don't know. But if you want to reduce fouling by about 90%...yeah...."lube pills"!!!!

 

[red rick]

I have already made some lube . I might make some lubed patches also just to get the ball closer to the barrel firing lighter loads , or I might just use cornmeal or grits .

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I have already made some lube . I might make some lubed patches also just to get the ball closer to the barrel firing lighter loads , or I might just use cornmeal or grits .

That is all fine and good, but complicates the loading process. The lube pills above are bee's wax and wonder lube 1000. You just grab one and press it over the ball, and SHAZAM! Done. A little bit of experimentation to get the mix just right, so that it's not too hard, but soft enough to roll into balls or "pills".

Of course, all the methods above are fine for plinking and target shooting, I almost-always carry a BP revolver when hunting, hiking and trekking, so a fast and simple reload in the field is important to me. That's my focus. However, the difference in fouling is profound, using the lube-pills compared to lubed wads (which will contaminate the powder over time, not a concern when shooting at the range, big concern when loaded for long periods of time for field use) grits, or other methods.

Good luck and have fun. I prefer the Uberti, I sure like the lack of markings on the barrel.

 

[red rick]

The barrel makings were a big reason that I changed my mind from a Pietta to a Uberti , even though I heard about the short arbor on the Uberti’s .

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Yes, if/when Pietta decides to remove the markings, Uberti will be hurting for business. Even so, I'm quite happy with both my Uberti's, a Remington New Model Army in Navy caliber, and a 1862 Colt. I did have to send the Colt to Jack, it had more problems than just the Arbor. Now it is perfection. And it is extremely accurate. The Remington (which once belonged to Maria Uberti) has been perfect "out of the box", although it was a sample gun and was well factory tuned.

 

[red rick]

Ugly , what is your recipe for your pills ? Yours are prettier than mine . Yours have a nice yellow beeswax color . I think that I used too much tuna fish in mine .

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Well, you can tune a revolver, (I can't, but Jack or Mike can) but you can't tune a fish. I just use "Wonder Lube 1000" and bee's wax. I believe candle wax/canning wax would work just as good, and I usually throw some in the mix. Some red candle wax might make a pretty cool looking lube-pill. I wonder if food coloring would work?

I have found that the SPG lube that comes in those tubes, or tube-shaped, is the right consistency. I just melt it in tuna can or something so I can scrape it up with the pop-cycle stick. I've noticed no difference between SPG pills and the others when using either or.

I'm guessing that lard or tallow, or bear grease mixed with wax would work just as good for them historically correct guys. Not that lube-pills are historically correct, but the ingredients would be. I wonder if whale oil is still available. ? The possibilities are endless!!

 

[StrawHat]

… I wonder if whale oil is still available. ? The possibilities are endless!!…

Yes, it is! Or at least a synthetic version. Whale oil was used as transmission fluid so ATF should work. I would use the non detergent grade.

Neatsfoot oil is also recommended by some of the ML winners, combined with beeswax.

Kevin

 

[StrawHat]

And again with the lead ring thing, it does not need to shave lead off. A .375 ball should work just fine. First thing to do is fix the short arbor on that Uberti. Get the barrel/ cylinder gap set to .002 to .004 so you get the same gun each time you put it together. Chamfer the cylinder mouths just enough to compress the ball without shaving off lead. Do use lube over the ball or use a wad under it with lube between the wad and ball. I know you just got your revolver so shoot it a few times and consider having it tuned, my bench is clear at the moment. If nothing else fix the arbor. I've asked this question before with no answer... can someone show original documented instructions from a revolver manufacturer stating you must shave lead off a ball or bullet?

Probably in the same set of instructions that mentions using lube (pills or otherwise) and sealing the cones.




The original thread,

Original Script Colt Instructions

Here is the original Script that was included in Colt Revolvers. DIRECTIONS FOR LOADING COLT’S PISTOLS First explode a cap on each nipple to clear them from oil and dust, then draw back the hammer to half-cock, which allows the cylinder to be rotated. A charge of powder is then placed in one...

www.thehighroad.org

Kevin

 

[hawg]

Yes, it is! Or at least a synthetic version. Whale oil was used as transmission fluid so ATF should work. I would use the non detergent grade.

Neatsfoot oil is also recommended by some of the ML winners, combined with beeswax.

Kevin

I would use synthetic ATF. ATF is petroleum based. If neat's-foot oil is not labeled pure it also is petroleum based.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

That's the same set of loading instructions I've seen, no mention of shaving lead rings off the ball. I really think it's one of those things that got told so many times it's gotta be the only way to do things. I think it's total B.S.

 

[hawg]

That's the same set of loading instructions I've seen, no mention of shaving lead rings off the ball. I really think it's one of those things that got told so many times it's gotta be the only way to do things. I think it's total B.S.

Colt chamfered the chambers so no lead ring on originals.

 

[red rick]

I made my lube with mutton tallow , beeswax and canning paraffin , but mutton tallow is getting hard to find and expensive .

 

[doubleh]

I have always used lube with a BP revolver.. It may not prevent chainfires (I have never had one) but it certainly makes fouling easier to get rid of.

 

[MEHavey]

.375 ball should work just fine.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

NOTE:
(Although I subscribe to the "loose/gapped cap" theory
of chainfires, I still put lard/Crisco over the ball)

 

[.38 Special]

I prefer .380 for every .36 cap gun, but only have one (a custom gun with honed chambers) which requires them. I have often used .375 in Uberti revolvers; it has never caused any problems for me.

The one good point for a shaved lead ring is that it provides visual evidence that a proper seal has been made. I have some guns that will cut a ring and others that swage the ball down. As long as the ball seals the chamber, I don't much care either way.

I'm another who suspects most chainfires originate at the cones, but I'm no longer confident enough to say that they can't happen at the front. It may even be possible that topping the ball with grease can prevent chainfires - but if it can, I'd argue that something else is wrong, and that the lube is a band-aid. Certainly, blowing great gobs of grease all over everything keeps the gun lubed and the fouling soft. I personally hate the mess it makes, but to each his own.

So I just dump in a charge, cover it with a Wonder wad, ram home a .380 if I've got one and a .375 if I don't, cap, and fire. In a properly tuned gun, that's all it takes, and the gun will run until the end of time.

 

[hawg]

I prefer .380 for every .36 cap gun, but only have one (a custom gun with honed chambers) which requires them. I have often used .375 in Uberti revolvers; it has never caused any problems for me.

The one good point for a shaved lead ring is that it provides visual evidence that a proper seal has been made. I have some guns that will cut a ring and others that swage the ball down. As long as the ball seals the chamber, I don't much care either way.

I'm another who suspects most chainfires originate at the cones, but I'm no longer confident enough to say that they can't happen at the front. It may even be possible that topping the ball with grease can prevent chainfires - but if it can, I'd argue that something else is wrong, and that the lube is a band-aid. Certainly, blowing great gobs of grease all over everything keeps the gun lubed and the fouling soft. I personally hate the mess it makes, but to each his own.

So I just dump in a charge, cover it with a Wonder wad, ram home a .380 if I've got one and a .375 if I don't, cap, and fire. In a properly tuned gun, that's all it takes, and the gun will run until the end of time.

A shaved ring doesn't guarantee a good seal. I have one that shaves a ring but it will chainfire every time if I don't use a wad or lube. FWIW I've tried to make it chain from the nipples and can't do it.