Question for 1911 gurus

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Let me first start off by saying I'm fully aware of all of the alleged legal issues about disabling safeties on guns. This is a purely technical question so lets not address any of that.

Between a series 80 with the firing pin block and a series 80 pistol with the entire FPB system taken out and replaced with the steel spacer, which will be more reliable.

I have seen pics of bent levers which raises cause for concern, but I also don't like the idea of spacers just sitting in a gun, next to the sear no less. I feel like I'm taking out these parts because they shouldnt be there, but I'm replacing it with a part that shouldn't be there.

Assuming that when I take out the FPB system I replace everything from the hammer to the firing pin and spring, which of these two systems will be more reliable and last longer.


(maybe if I'm lucky the most favored disciple of JMB 1911tuner will grace this thread with his wisdom)
 
All you have to do is remove the plunger in the slide. You can leave the lever next to the sear in there. makes it into a "Series 70" weapon. Alot of guys do this to get better trigger pulls.

The Kimber Raptor II works differently. the trigger does not activate the lever, the beavertail safety does the work. I think this is a much better system, with no trigger pull differences.
 
Technically, the "series 70" will be more reliable because the series 80 parts must be timed properly for the gun to work, and that "relationship" changes as the gun wears.

Of course, more parts can mean more "problems", for whatever reason.
 
With just changing the plunger the 2 lower levers will still move when the trigger is pulled so why not just replace them with the non moving spacer.
 
Actually, a properly tuned Series 80 firing pin safety will be more reliable.

You may want to read this thread by 1911Tuner himself.

CD, I'm not sure I would remove the slide plunger and leave the Series 80 levers in. The upper lever is very likely to snag on the hole left in the slide on recoil, destroying the lever and locking up the pistol.

If you insist on removing one part, it's safer to remove the levers too, and insert the spacer. Better yet, leave them in and tune the system properly.
 
The lever wont go that high as to catch the hole....I guess you could just use a spacer or grind the lever off if you were worried about it.
 
The upper lever is very likely to snag on the hole left in the slide on recoil, destroying the lever and locking up the pistol.
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Not to mention damaging the frame beyond repair...

The Series 80 system is ultra-reliable when it's timed right, and rarely gives a problem as long as it's kept reasonably clean. That said...I don't care for it much because...as the man said: "The more gadgets it's got, the more "Murphy" it gets.

The frame blank was never meant to be a permanent replacement. It was originally intended for a gunsmith's box of tricks to save time during the sequence of disassembly/adjustment/reassembly during a trigger job. I've seen several...including two of my converted Series 80 beaters...in which the hole wallowed out and flanged within 3,000 rounds to the point that it interfered with positive sear reset...which leads to hammer followdown. It's become my standard practice to detail-strip and dress the flanging every 2,000 rounds or whenever I strip the guns...and it's always there. Then, after the third repair, I toss the blanks and install new ones.

In the other two guns, it's not as much of a problem, and doesn't require attention more than once every five or six thousand rounds...and the flanging is very light.
 
Tuner, what do you think of the teflon series 80 parts for sale in Brownells? I had my 'smith take the original parts out and put a spacer in but am thinking of going back to the FP lock with teflon coated parts. Thanks
 
So from everything I've gathered, if long term reliability is what I'm looking for, then leaving the system in is the way to go.

As an aside, can a series 80 slide work properly on a series 70 frame?
 
As an aside, can a series 80 slide work properly on a series 70 frame?
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Yes. Just remember to remove the plunger and spring. You can even use pre-Series 80 extractors, firing pins, and firing pin stops. I strongly recommend switching the firing pin spring for a standard number. Wolff makes a good one. The springs in the Series 80 pistols are a little short and soft for the best insurance against drop-fire ADs.
 
One thing...

Disassemble the slide periodically and clean it. Every time you have it apart, check the firing pin plunger carefully for anything that doesn't look right. Timing problems show up as tiny "splines" on the plunger...on the upper corner just above the bottleneck. It means that the lever doesn't provide enough lift to completely disengage the system...and it'll likely get worse over time, to the point that it'll tie up the firing pin, and either won't allow it to hit the primer or it'll be stuck in the full forward position...through the breechface.
 
So to summarize if there was this guy I know who absolutely had to have a 1911 with the colt rollmarks, but wanted a dead reliable pistol without any of the "extra" engineering (and lived in california where people knew what was good for him, meaning he just couldn't outright buy one of those really cool series 70 repro colts) his best course of action would be to pick up say a springfield GI or milspec, and swap slides and parts.

If so, I guess my next question is does colt sell new slides and where can I get them.
 
Yeah, but that wouldn't have the rollmarks on it which is 90% of the reason why I want the colt.
 
No they don't. At least not the series 70 blued ones. I just checked and they have discontinued them.
 
The Old Fuff is at a loss to understand why folks that don't like the Colt Series 80 firing pin block go out an buy Series 80 pistols. :confused:

They must be like those who can't stand Smith & Wesson's detested lock, but still buy the revolvers. :scrutiny:

There is a choice you know... The market is filled with Colt and other pistols that don't have the FP block, and the same can be said about "lockless" Smith & Wessons.

Through my long life when a manufacturer changed something that didn't sit well with me I bought something else. It sure isn't that choices aren't available.

Never, ever - have I had to worry about a malfunctioning firing pin block or turn-on-itself hammer lock. Not one of my 1911 style pistols need some kind of a spacer in it.

For gosh sakes... If you don't like it buy something that you do... :neener: ;)
 
I used to think I was old and curmudgeonly, but I've had to concede that I have much to learn from Fuff. Not only in re: firearms, but the finer points of curmudgeon-hood as well.

I've got a Colt 80 and a Kimber Eclipse of the "Type II" persuasion. Neither have given grief but ever since the CDP handed me a load of sunshine, I haven't been able to look at either the same. Even if the "80" doesn't suffer from the same issues, it has parts that don't need to be there and, all else being equal, its trigger will always have slightly greater suckage than a 70.

Several seem to have gotten their handguns certified in California with lightweight firing pins and slightly heavier FP springs without more parts. In one case, I believe a CA-cert 1911 made it through with a depleted uranium firing pin and a spring from a Burlington-Northern road diesel, but that's another matter.

There will be grass growing under my arms before I buy another 1911-ish handgun with a FPB.
The Old Fuff is at a loss to understand why folks that don't like the Colt Series 80 firing pin block go out an buy Series 80 pistols.

They must be like those who can't stand Smith & Wesson's detested lock, but still buy the revolvers.
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Indeed.
The rollmark gets you what? A free pass in the threads noting that "if it's not a Colt, it's a copy"? Big deal. The series 80 is a copy, and a compromised one at that.

Not that Fuff would approve of my semi - it's too 4" in the barrel and too almost needing a gadget to disassemble, but I derive delight in that it's a weapon and will likely never be confused with a range toy and was sold to me by people that would rather take a molten lead enema than ever utter the words "break in" or "limp wrist".

Still, IMHO, life is too short to buy something you don't like with the intent of fixing it unless fixing it is a hobby onto itself.
 
I'm not doubting you 1911Tuner, but I don't understand how the holes in the blank get wallowed out. It seems like the blank shouldn't have any stress on it at all; that the holes in the frame would take all the stress and the blank would just sort of sit there and keep the hammer and sear in the proper location. I just don't quite get it.:confused:
 
I used to think I was old and curmudgeonly, but I've had to concede that I have much to learn from Fuff. Not only in re: firearms, but the finer points of curmudgeon-hood as well.
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Experience boy... Ya' got to learn the fine points over time... :evil:

This firing pin block business isn't anything new. Back in ’37... Ya’ do remember 1937 don’t ya??? Well anyway, Colt came up with a firing pin block that was designed by a gent named William Swartz. It was a hellish thing to machine, but the guys at Colt were masters at making gun parts (and out of real steel too). Colt thought it would go over like hotcakes on a cold morning, but when they showed it to officers in the U. S of A’s Army they said, “no way!”

So then they showed it off to the Brazilian Army, as they were buying a whole lot of Colt .45’s at the time, and they too said, “no way, José.”

You would have thought they’d taken the hint... :scrutiny:

So that left Colt with the unhappy task of making two lines of frames and slides, one for the USA and Brazil, and the other for their commercial pistols. This unhappiness went on until 1942, when they dropped the Swartz design and went strictly to the USGI version. :) :) :)

After the war commercial production was restored, but without the firing pin safety. It wasn’t until the Series 80 came along that the company lawyers convinced the top brass that the pistol couldn’t pass a political correctness test without it. To the company’s credit, they haven’t saddled us with an internal lock... yet... :uhoh:

Now I can understand why some folks agree with the U.S. and Brazilian Armies concerning the merits of an added gadget in a service pistol, but I am at a total loss as to why, feeling the way they do, these individuals still buy the critters – especially when they have to take abuse from a certain party who will remain nameless for his own safety... :neener: :D
 
I don't understand how the holes in the blank get wallowed out.
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I don't either..but it has to have somethin' to do with the blank scootchin' around and makin' contact with the sear and hammer pins. Most likely during recoil.

All I know is that two of mine do it...and if I don't keep'em dressed down, the hammer will start to follow the slide because the flanges contact the sides of the sear and put enough drag on it to keep it from resetting.

Not a major issue. Just a little aggravation is all.
 
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