Question for 1911 gurus

[Hawk]

This firing pin block business isn't anything new. Back in ’37... Ya’ do remember 1937 don’t ya???

Absolutely I remember '37. Or I read about it or something. My memory isn't what it once was.

I was of the understanding that the Swartz safety was a grip actuated doo-dad along the lines of the Kimber. Until tonight I didn't know Colt produced grip-deactivated FPBs, Somehow I thought that, although they held the Swartz patent, Colt made the trigger-deactivated thing from the git-go, including 1938 but I was probably too busy with the Tonka toys.

But, you curmudgeoned me into finding this:

Today, examples with the Swartz safety are scarce collector's items, for Colt didn't make many. World War II proved the death of the Swartz safety, as wartime military pistols did not include it.

After the war ended the safety did not return. For reasons unclear, a firing pin safety became desirable in the late '70s, which prompted Colt to introduce a far more complicated system to do the same job.

From here.

Collector's item, hunh?
Reminds me of another curmudgeon (automotive), Brock Yates I think it was, who remarked that a "classic" had to be something people lusted after when it was new. If it wasn't desired when new, it could only aspire to be an old car.

Please tell me people aren't paying more for a 1938 Swartz than "un-Swartz" - that just wouldn't seem right.

 

[STAGE 2]

Through my long life when a manufacturer changed something that didn't sit well with me I bought something else. It sure isn't that choices aren't available.

Thats because Old fuff doesn't live in california where we don't have the option to buy 1911 frames or series 70 colts. Hence my dilemma.

Anyone know anywhere else that sells series 70 slides?

 

[JohnnyBravo]

CDNN used to sell Series 70 slides but I haven't gotten one of their catalogs for a couple of years.

 

[Old Fuff]

Thats because Old fuff doesn't live in california where we don't have the option to buy 1911 frames or series 70 colts. Hence my dilemma.

I feel for people that live in California for a number of reasons. I won't even visit the place anymore.

Anyone know anywhere else that sells series 70 slides?

Unlike the Series 80, the changes made in the Series 70 did not effect the slide. Other then the "billboard" markings there is no difference between a Series 70 slide, and one made previously. Rather then pay through the nose to get a genuine Series 70 slide, I would pick up one of the better 1911 slides made by today's aftermarket makers. Go to www.brownells.com for a selection.

 

[Old Fuff]

Please tell me people aren't paying more for a 1938 Swartz than "un-Swartz" - that just wouldn't seem right.

No, they are worthless. Should you find one, or its .38 Super counterpart, send it to me for proper disposal. (Note: checking a Blue Book for current values is cheating ).

Some years ago a company proposed to re-introduce the Swartz safety because all of the difficult machine work could be eliminated through investment casting. They did a market study (which I was part of) and discovered absolutely no interest.

None of the various firing pin blocks and internal locks has seen the light of day because of market demand. They are without exception the result of lawyers and anti-gun legislators. :banghead:

 

[Old Fuff]

STAGE 2:

So now I notice that you want the billboard marking. I think that anyone that likes it must live in California...

Anyway, have you checked Colt? They still make a Series 70 pistol, and I'm sure the slides are so marked. Take a stiff drink before you ask about the price, but then all of us that live in Arizona know everyone in California is rich...

 

[1911Tuner]

A point of interest...

Series 70 is a specific designation for the Colt Government Models and Gold Cups that were manufactured between 1972 and early 1983. They had a collet bushing and ushered in the "flared" muzzle that many mistakenly believe was always a part of the design. Before that, there wasn't a "Series" designation,just as there is no "Series 1" Kimber.

Springfields and any other 1911-pattern pistols lacking a firing pin block are not Series 70 pistols. Series 70 and Series 80 are Colt trademarks. There are no Series 70 Colt Commanders, regardless of any numerical prefix in the serial number.

So...Any pre-Series 80 Colt slide will do...but be sure to check the dimensions and specs on any slide marked "Series 70" because they were sorta hit and miss for a few of those years.

 

[STAGE 2]

So now I notice that you want the billboard marking. I think that anyone that likes it must live in California...

Anyway, have you checked Colt? They still make a Series 70 pistol, and I'm sure the slides are so marked. Take a stiff drink before you ask about the price, but then all of us that live in Arizona know everyone in California is rich...

I know, but again the problem is that california does not allow them to be sold. The only colt made 1911's that I can purchase are the series 80 pistol. I can't get the WW1 or WWII repros or the series 70 repro. My only shot is to find someone that owns an older colt in the state that is willing to sell, and there are zero of those people.

A point of interest...

Series 70 is a specific designation for the Colt Government Models and Gold Cups that were manufactured between 1972 and early 1983. They had a collet bushing and ushered in the "flared" muzzle that many mistakenly believe was always a part of the design. Before that, there wasn't a "Series" designation,just as there is no "Series 1" Kimber.

Springfields and any other 1911-pattern pistols lacking a firing pin block are not Series 70 pistols. Series 70 and Series 80 are Colt trademarks. There are no Series 70 Colt Commanders, regardless of any numerical prefix in the serial number.

So...Any pre-Series 80 Colt slide will do...but be sure to check the dimensions and specs on any slide marked "Series 70" because they were sorta hit and miss for a few of those years.

I know. I'm essentially just after any colt rollmarked slide without the FPB system.

 

[STAGE 2]

So now I notice that you want the billboard marking. I think that anyone that likes it must live in California...

Anyway, have you checked Colt? They still make a Series 70 pistol, and I'm sure the slides are so marked. Take a stiff drink before you ask about the price, but then all of us that live in Arizona know everyone in California is rich...

I know, but again the problem is that california does not allow them to be sold. The only colt made 1911's that I can purchase are the series 80 pistol. I can't get the WW1 or WWII repros or the series 70 repro. My only shot is to find someone that owns an older colt in the state that is willing to sell, and there are zero of those people.

A point of interest...

Series 70 is a specific designation for the Colt Government Models and Gold Cups that were manufactured between 1972 and early 1983. They had a collet bushing and ushered in the "flared" muzzle that many mistakenly believe was always a part of the design. Before that, there wasn't a "Series" designation,just as there is no "Series 1" Kimber.

Springfields and any other 1911-pattern pistols lacking a firing pin block are not Series 70 pistols. Series 70 and Series 80 are Colt trademarks. There are no Series 70 Colt Commanders, regardless of any numerical prefix in the serial number.

So...Any pre-Series 80 Colt slide will do...but be sure to check the dimensions and specs on any slide marked "Series 70" because they were sorta hit and miss for a few of those years.

I know. I'm essentially just after any colt rollmarked slide without the FPB system.

 

[STAGE 2]

So now I notice that you want the billboard marking. I think that anyone that likes it must live in California...

Anyway, have you checked Colt? They still make a Series 70 pistol, and I'm sure the slides are so marked. Take a stiff drink before you ask about the price, but then all of us that live in Arizona know everyone in California is rich...

I know, but again the problem is that california does not allow them to be sold. The only colt made 1911's that I can purchase are the series 80 pistol. I can't get the WW1 or WWII repros or the series 70 repro. My only shot is to find someone that owns an older colt in the state that is willing to sell, and there are zero of those people.

A point of interest...

Series 70 is a specific designation for the Colt Government Models and Gold Cups that were manufactured between 1972 and early 1983. They had a collet bushing and ushered in the "flared" muzzle that many mistakenly believe was always a part of the design. Before that, there wasn't a "Series" designation,just as there is no "Series 1" Kimber.

Springfields and any other 1911-pattern pistols lacking a firing pin block are not Series 70 pistols. Series 70 and Series 80 are Colt trademarks. There are no Series 70 Colt Commanders, regardless of any numerical prefix in the serial number.

So...Any pre-Series 80 Colt slide will do...but be sure to check the dimensions and specs on any slide marked "Series 70" because they were sorta hit and miss for a few of those years.

I know. I'm essentially just after any colt rollmarked slide without the FPB system.

 

[Hawk]

I was going to try responding earlier but Cal DOJ was broken. I note it's back up: http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

Forgive me if I've missed something, but we're looking for:
California legal
No FPB
Colt rollmark
?

Could one simply purchase a non-FPB 1911 pattern (I believe Les Baer, Nighthawk, Springfield and others rely on lightweight firing pins and stout firing pin return springs), then simply slap whatever rollmarked Colt slide on top of the thing?

I can't personally understand why I'd ever buy a Les Baer then slap a Colt slide on top, but I'm trying to get into the spirit of the thing.

One can still buy the slide as it's not the firearm, fit it to the Baer frame, add the (non-FPB) FCG parts and sally forth with a Colt rollmark. N'cest pas?

Or is a Colt frame also part of goal?

 

[Old Fuff]

STAGE 2:

I understand that you can't buy a new Series 70 pistol. But Colt would I think, sell you a series 70 slide. Maybe something has changed, but I don't believe California prohibits pistol slides (or at least I hope not). The problem would more likely be that Colt would charge big bucks for it - well over what an unmarked one from someone else would cost. If any Colt slide (other then a Series 80) would float your boat I would e-mail the following source:

www.e-gunparts.com

Don't go by their website listings. The have a lot of one-of-a-kind stuff that isn't listed. They might even have a Series 70 slide.

 

[STAGE 2]

Getting a non-fpb slide isn't the problem. I could call caspian tomorrow. The problem is with the roll marks. Colt doesn't sell slides to us peons. Who knows why. I've called several times all with the same result.

As far as rollmarking a blank slide I wan't aware this could be done what with trademarks and such. Is this actually possible?


Fuff: I've checked numrich and they don't seem to have anything but blank slides from some no-name manufacturer. Where do I find some of this unlisted stuff.

 

[1911Tuner]

Colt doesn't sell slides to us peons. Who knows why. I've called several times all with the same result.

And here I sit on a spankin' new pre-Series 70 Colt slide...both in-spec and of flawless finish...that was a gift from my good friend K.M. Keller. It came complete with barrel...firing pin...extractor...firing pin stop, and bushing.

It now resides on top of a 1943 Colt USGI frame with a Kart barrel, and does range duty about once a month.

Nope. Not for sale.

 

[Hawk]

Git biddin'

Series 70
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=82320573

Series 80 - looks rough to me.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=82068845

Might want to try a phone call to CDNN as well - probably a long shot but what the hey.

And maybe call Ken at Wild West - see if he's got one laying around.

 

[45auto]

There is a series 70 slide assembly on sale at the 1911forum.com right now!

If that doesn't work, I'd post a "WTB" in several of the forums.

 

[Old Fuff]

Fuff: I've checked numrich and they don't seem to have anything but blank slides from some no-name manufacturer. Where do I find some of this unlisted stuff.

Numrich buys parts from a number of sources, including guns confiscated by police departments. In this case the parts are stripped off of the frame, and then the frame is returned to be destroyed. On other occasions they buy someone’s overstock, or even damaged guns that still have some good parts on them.

However the quantity isn’t enough to justify listing them in the catalog. Generally phone calls don’t work, but sometimes an e-mail of FAX’ed letter will.

As for putting a billboard on a plain slide. Doing this for commercial sale would be a no-no, but marking a single slide for your own personal use wouldn’t likely attract any attention. Usually things like this are done by making a mask and then sand-blasting or etching the image. Buying a roll stamp would cost a lot more then having someone in Arizona buy a whole Series 70 gun and then send you the slide and other parts. So long as a frame wasn’t involved this wouldn’t be illegal.

 

[STAGE 2]

And here I sit on a spankin' new pre-Series 70 Colt slide...both in-spec and of flawless finish...that was a gift from my good friend K.M. Keller. It came complete with barrel...firing pin...extractor...firing pin stop, and bushing.

So then how do I get friends like yours since everyone I talked to at colt has told me that they don't sell slides to the public.

Buying a roll stamp would cost a lot more then having someone in Arizona buy a whole Series 70 gun and then send you the slide and other parts. So long as a frame wasn’t involved this wouldn’t be illegal.

I thought of going that route but its a huge pain in the ass for both me and the other person, and I don't have any friends in AZ. At least none that don't turn green when they see a firearm.

 

[1911Tuner]

So then how do I get friends like yours since everyone I talked to at colt has told me that they don't sell slides to the public.

Get very lucky like he did and find somebody who both has an early take-off slide and is willing to part with it.