Question for old geezers.

[HisSoldier]

I just went shooting and thought again about something I've noticed. I was shooting at a 1/4" thick 6061 aluminum gong with my DW CBOB .45 ACP and TMJ factory reloads. TMJ for those who haven't heard about it stands for "total metal jacket". We used to have either lead or FMJ, full metal jacket. The jacket material seems to be very thin compared to what I remember from 40 years ago. Back then bullets stayed intact unless they hit something real solid, all the bullets I've shot lately will deform shooting into a phone book! These are not plated, the metal is too thick for that in my opinion.
I picked up a gong hit splash and took a photo. By actual measurement the jacket is only .004 thick. I remember what looking back seems like .025 thick jackets on pistol bullets long ago. I've noticed this in several brands of bullets. Am I imagining this? Is this like pistols being made of plastic now, just part of the cheapening of our manufacturing processes?

 

[Black_Talon]

They actually are plated. You can build up the copper plate to whatever thickness you want. Most seem to be no more than .005" at best, whereas a typical pistol bullet jacket will run between .020" and .010", depending on the area of the bullet. With the ever-increasing price of copper, you can see why these plated bullets are becoming so ubiquitous.

 

[bannockburn]

HisSoldier

I noticed that with a box of Winchester BEB .45 ACP that I had, I was getting an inordinate number of FTFs with a 1911 that has always fed everything without any problem. When I got home, I started to carefully look at the bullets to see if I could determine where the problem was. It turns out that what I thought were full metal jacketed bullets, were actually exposed lead on top, and the lead was thick and unevenly layered there. This was what was causing all the jams; the lead slag was getting hung up on the barrel ramp. After I sanded away all the slag, I could see a small hole on the top of the bullet. So I'm guessing they start out with this thin hollow copper shell, form it into a bullet shape, then pour in the lead. The end result is one cheaply made bullet, which wouldn't have been so bad, but for the fact that the exposed and uneven lead surface caused a number of jams. Cheaper isn't always necessarily better, especially where ammo is concerned.

 

[cyanide]

Yeap, there is a difference between plated and jacketed, I bought a crap load of plated ammo by mail once and realized my mistake. Never again.
It is almost like plated 22 RF ammo.

 

[Kruzr]

I noticed that with a box of Winchester BEB .45 ACP that I had, I was getting an inordinate number of FTFs with a 1911 that has always fed everything without any problem. When I got home, I started to carefully look at the bullets to see if I could determine where the problem was. It turns out that what I thought were full metal jacketed bullets, were actually exposed lead on top, and the lead was thick and unevenly layered there

That's because BEB stands for Brass Enclosed Base.

 

[HisSoldier]

Typical plating is nowhere near that deep. It would take a while to deposit that much, not to mention electricity. I guess the price of copper is driving them to desperation if these are plated. My S&B .380's though are jacketed, but the jacket material is extremely thin. You can find the jackets lying on the ground separated from the lead after hitting the gong. Maybe .006" thick. So, are you guys old geezers?

 

[HisSoldier]

Son of a gun;
http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq.php

Says bullets are plated up to 8 thousandths thickness.

 

[Misfire99]

After I sanded away all the slag, I could see a small hole on the top of the bullet. So I'm guessing they start out with this thin hollow copper shell, form it into a bullet shape, then pour in the lead.

These bullet are swagged bullets. A bit of lead wire is inserted into the unformed jacket. The unformed jacket has the shape of a small coke can and is open at one end for the lead wire. The whole thing is pressed into a die, swagged, and the nose is formed. At the time the nose is formed the lead squeezes into the jacket and some goes out the hole that is all that is left of the open end of the cylinder, small coke can, of jacket material. When these are being made it happens so fast all you see is a blur of the jackets going by.

 

[bannockburn]

Misfire

Thanks for the explanation; I kind of wondered if they were swaged or not. It wouldn't have been so bad if they would have cleaned up the exposed lead at the top. After I cleaned off the lead, it made for a nice truncated shape which works fine. But that step should be taken care of at the factory, not by the consumer.