Question for those who like to go a little more old fashioned in their ammo choices?

[chaim]

So, I have renewed my commitment and interest in small framed (and sometimes medium framed) snubs. Unfortunately, out of a 2" barrel, both .38spl and .44spl can prove unreliable when it comes to JHP expansion. There are a few rounds that work reasonably well, but they are expensive, there are only a few (so they can be hard to find in an ammo shortage which seems to happen every few years), and even the better rounds will not always expand.

So, I've long been a proponent of LSWC-HP, and regular LSWC when the hollow point variety isn't available. They seem to me to give all the benefits of a WC (which can also be a popular traditionalist choice) with some advantages of their own. The LSWC and WC have the full caliber width sharp shoulder which is better at cutting a wound channel than JHP should the HP fail. Compared to a WC they are usually heavier (158gr vs. 148gr in a .38spl). The LSWC-HP has the hollow point if it does expand, and if it fails, it has the same sharp shouldered wound track of a regular LSWC or a WC. Finally, probably the biggest advantage over a regular WC, the tapered point of a LSWC or LSWC-HP makes reloads in a speed loader or speed strip far quicker and easier.

Yet, the regular WC still seems to be popular in short barreled snubs. Why? Is there something I'm missing? It isn't any cheaper, if you buy the more effective loads for defense (Buffalo Bore, Underwood) recoil isn't any better, and if you buy target loads for less recoil you may not get enough penetration. Yet, on any snub thread you often see people who use that as their load and BB and Underwood seem to sell a lot of them. While I clearly prefer the LSWC/LSWC-HP, I'm considering buying a couple boxes of WCs from BB or Underwood when I can't get my preferred loading.

So, what is your choice (assuming you are a traditionalist) and why?

 

[.38 Special]

Current thought is that the shoulder of a SWC doesn't do any real work in meat, and that it's the nose (meplat) that gets the job done. That thinking has resulted in the WFN/LFN shapes which work so well for hunting - and presumably would work well for defense, if overpenetration can be managed.

It may also be responsible for the surge of interest in wadcutters for defense. I personally am unconvinced, as my experience is that wadcutters often are on the edge of stability and perhaps more likely to tumble in anything bigger than rabbits and such. (I haven't shot enough criminals with them to really know one way or another, of course...)

 

[Targa]

My choice is the round nose design. When I was a kid, if a bullet was brought up in conversation the old round nose is immediately what came to my mind and I guess still is.

 

[shoebox1.1]

I have precision one wadcutters in my 638. They are about 60 cents a pop but are plated. Super clean and accurate. This pic is 7yrds DA

 

[wcwhitey]

When I carry a 2”
Revolver I carry factory ammo, usually Speer 135 Short Barrel in .38 of which I have plenty. If not .38 Hornady Critical Defense. But when I load I load Semi-Wadcutters both HP and WN. If for what ever reason I had to press them into service I would have no problem doing so. Early in my LE days we carried the Federal NYCLAD in both SWC and SWC-HP +P .38. Nobody ever complained about its performance. It was far superior to the RNL that the old timers used.

 

[jeepnik]

I load my 2" guns, heck even most of my 4" ones that are used for self defense with handloaded LHBWC loaded backwards. That's a real old school load going back to before even JHP's were relaible from anything but a 6" barrel. The LHBWC's are cast from a relatively soft alloy. Testing on live targets, jacks, they expand very well in the thin skinned and light bodied critters. The exit wounds are always significant.

 

[Pat Riot]

If you’re interested in factory SD ammo check out this website to see tests of various .38 and .357 ammo in 2 and 4 inch barreled revolvers.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/

I usually carry Hornady Critical Defense and / or Federal HST in my Snubbies. Now that I live in the USA again (not California) I may load up some HBWC rounds for carry. I wouldn’t utilize hand loads for SD or HD there.

 

[StrawHat]

I load my 2" guns, heck even most of my 4" ones that are used for self defense with handloaded LHBWC loaded backwards. That's a real old school load going back to before even JHP's were relaible from anything but a 6" barrel. The LHBWC's are cast from a relatively soft alloy. Testing on live targets, jacks, they expand very well in the thin skinned and light bodied critters. The exit wounds are always significant.

I played that game years ago also. Expansion was enormous but they lacked penetration. Would not exit from a groundhog reliably. Not something I would rely on to bring me home at night. Having said that, I am aware of at least one High Roader who did use this load successfully.

Kevin

 

[racepres]

Button nose wadcutters for me... Hard to Beat, for accuracy, and controlability... Gotta Hit what yer shootin at, First... Full Caliber Hole, is Good enough for me!

 

[defjon]

So, I have renewed my commitment and interest in small framed (and sometimes medium framed) snubs. Unfortunately, out of a 2" barrel, both .38spl and .44spl can prove unreliable when it comes to JHP expansion. There are a few rounds that work reasonably well, but they are expensive, there are only a few (so they can be hard to find in an ammo shortage which seems to happen every few years), and even the better rounds will not always expand.

So, I've long been a proponent of LSWC-HP, and regular LSWC when the hollow point variety isn't available. They seem to me to give all the benefits of a WC (which can also be a popular traditionalist choice) with some advantages of their own. The LSWC and WC have the full caliber width sharp shoulder which is better at cutting a wound channel than JHP should the HP fail. Compared to a WC they are usually heavier (158gr vs. 148gr in a .38spl). The LSWC-HP has the hollow point if it does expand, and if it fails, it has the same sharp shouldered wound track of a regular LSWC or a WC. Finally, probably the biggest advantage over a regular WC, the tapered point of a LSWC or LSWC-HP makes reloads in a speed loader or speed strip far quicker and easier.

Yet, the regular WC still seems to be popular in short barreled snubs. Why? Is there something I'm missing? It isn't any cheaper, if you buy the more effective loads for defense (Buffalo Bore, Underwood) recoil isn't any better, and if you buy target loads for less recoil you may not get enough penetration. Yet, on any snub thread you often see people who use that as their load and BB and Underwood seem to sell a lot of them. While I clearly prefer the LSWC/LSWC-HP, I'm considering buying a couple boxes of WCs from BB or Underwood when I can't get my preferred loading.

So, what is your choice (assuming you are a traditionalist) and why?

I started revolver carry with a wrist injury and carried wadcutters until I found critical defense lite and regular to recoil no more (possibly less) and load a lot better from a strip.

Like you say, pricy and rare to find. I stock larger lswc ammo. Lead is soft enough for maybe some expansion and penetration isn't an issue. Probably a good woods load.

I like remingtons lswc hp round. Does well from any barrel length.

The critical defense in a revolver doesn't require a bunch of switching out. Load the cylinder and carry, a year later they will still fire. You could grab a few boxes and be set after you've shot enough to know how they hit and handle.

 

[defjon]

I should note, I was switching them out a lot and shooting off the old ones for years.

Then I tried frequent carry rounds, and saving them as they get beat up and nasty looking. Never had a cd round fail to fire.

 

[Rodfac]

Revolver I carry factory ammo, usually Speer 135 Short Barrel in .38

Yep, that's my choice as well. In my .357 M-60 Smith with its 3" bbl., that's my #1 choice. Accurate, not excessively loud, ample penetration with good expansion, and better ejection than .357 loads due to its shorter case. What's not to like. Best Regards, Rod

 

[V-fib]

In my S&W 642, LSWC are all I have ever used. They'll get the job done if ever needed.

 

[Old Dog]

I'm a fan of the heavyweight hardcast LSWCs for carry revolvers. In a neighborhood where a lot of the folks on my rural road have thick-skulled pit mixes that seem to get loose too often, there's also a lot of nuisance black bear and the occasional cougar, when I'm walking my dogs, I feel fairly confident with some Buffalo Bore 180-grain hardcast in a 3" King Cobra or Python .357. Hopefully I'd have the time for head shots, but however things played out, penetration would be key.

 

[Archie]

Being an old sort (does 'pre-domesticated fire count?) I do prefer flat fronted lead bullets. I am currently carrying Federal 158 grain SWCHP ammo.
I'm not above carrying my own reloads. Matt's bullets make and sell a .358" cast lead full wadcutter. It is loaded exposed like a conventional bullet with a crimping groove and everything.
I also prefer heavier bullets leaning more to 'momentum' than 'kinetic energy'.

 

[velocette]

My Smith 640, speedloader and speed strip are filled with Buffalo Bore soft lead gas checked hollow point semi wadcutter 158 grain rounds, 253 ft. pounds of energy.
BB calls it Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash Heavy .38 Special .
Stated as 850 feet per second. Recoil is stout, but nowhere near that of a .357 maggie. They are claimed to be standard pressure, not +P. My partner's Smith snubby (also a 640) is filled with 147 gr hollow base lead wad cutters at about 700 fps as she is a bit more recoil sensitive than I.

 

[defjon]

My Smith 640, speedloader and speed strip are filled with Buffalo Bore soft lead gas checked hollow point semi wadcutter 158 grain rounds, 253 ft. pounds of energy.
BB calls it Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash Heavy .38 Special .
Stated as 850 feet per second. Recoil is stout, but nowhere near that of a .357 maggie. They are claimed to be standard pressure, not +P. My partner's Smith snubby (also a 640) is filled with 147 gr hollow base lead wad cutters at about 700 fps as she is a bit more recoil sensitive than I.

I've got that load in my house model 60, very good stuff!

 

[tactikel]

Back in the day (1970s) I loaded hollow based wadcutters, reversed, for .38 Spl, for my buddie’s Detective Special. He was a LEO, this was his backup /off duty carry.

 

[StrawHat]

Here is a bit of a thread on full power wadcutter loads. I have used these when I used the little 36.

https://www.grantcunningham.com/2011/11/ed-harris-revisiting-the-full-charge-wadcutter/

Full disclosure, I now load the SAECO 453 over a hardball dose of powder in my ACP revolvers.

Kevin

 

[DR505]

Current thought is that the shoulder of a SWC doesn't do any real work in meat, and that it's the nose (meplat) that gets the job done. That thinking has resulted in the WFN/LFN shapes which work so well for hunting - and presumably would work well for defense, if overpenetration can be managed.

I too like the WFN bullets in my revolvers. I do not worry about overpenetration, however. The majority of bullets fired in LE shootings completely miss their targets, so overpenetration is not the greatest consideration. I have not seen the data on non-LE shootings, but I will wager a similar percentage of shots do not hit their intended target.

 

[357smallbore]

I carry full wadcutters in my 38 Specials and my 44 Specials. 147 and 200 grainers respectfully.
Have 100% confidence they will stop a threat if I do my job.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Another vote for 158gr LSWC. Good all around bullet for my use. I can shoot a lot of them to stay proficient and I am confident in being able to hit my target with them. Yes, better options but, for me, they are a good compromise.

 

[IWAC]

Gradually, it seems, due to improvements in technology, "NEW, IMPROVED, DIFFERENT and BETTER"...especially in .38 Special and other disrespected ammo seems to be somewhat true.
However, it also seems that some thinking people are disregarding much of the Marketing Dept. hype, and continue to use use factory ammo and reloads "Old Technology" that has been proven in the past...over decades. When they can be found, they perform as well as "modern" discoveries, and sometimes better!

 

[jstert]

my own first priority is accuracy, which is related to softer recoil, not penetration or expansion. thus wadcutters and other light-recoil rounds are my go-to 38sp snubbie ammo. honestly it makes my life easier too, because i needn’t get into expensive and endless hunts for the latest & greatest defensive ammo. i can find my preferred 38sp ammo largely online at decent prices. besides, is expansion really to be expected from any short-barreled handgun?

away from snubbie revolvers, and even with them, i’m shooting fmj ball ammo, as our dear uncle sam taught me in 1972.

 

[daverich4]

away from snubbie revolvers, and even with them, i’m shooting fmj ball ammo, as our dear uncle sam taught me in 1972.

Uncle Sam taught you that, not because they were the most effective round, but because they were following the rules of the Hague Conventions.