Question on Hi-Power's

[Mizar]

My personal Hi-Power is clearly marked "Browning S. A. Made in Belgium". It's manufactured in 1997 and purchased new in Bulgaria (a small country in the darkest corner of Europe) from a Browning dealer. The company is not just a "marketing conglomerate" - actually they design firearms as part of Herstal group (Groupe Herstal S.A.). One more thing - the name "Browning" is very well known in Europe and their firearms are widely used.

Boris

 

[KodiakBeer]

Regardless, the Hi Power was made by FN, the Browning Buck Mark by Umarex, Browning shotguns largely by Miroku of Japan.

 

[Mizar]

http://www.browning.com/customerservice/qna/detail.asp?id=90 Please, do read.
I don't want to pick on you, KodiakBeer, but the story is a little bit different. For example - Umarex only makes air-guns, that are branded Browning. Like I said - Browning firearms are well known and widely used in Europe. Furthermore - Browning Hi-Powers are roll marked in the FN factory. They are produced as Browning firearms, not re-branded for some specific market. The FN vs Browning debate goes on the Internet forums for years. In general (FN USA being an exception) - FN branded firearms are for military and law enforcement market only, while Browning branded firearms are for civilian market only. I'm am going thru all of this just to point, that a Browning Hi-Power is just as "real" as an FN Hi-Power.

Boris

 

[KodiakBeer]

I'm am going thru all of this just to point, that a Browning Hi-Power is just as "real" as an FN Hi-Power.

Of course it is. I'm just pointing out that they aren't made by Browning. I believe all the British commonwealth Hi Powers are also marked Browning. I too refer to the Hi Power as the BHP or Browning Hi Power. I was just pointing out to anyone who doesn't know, that the guns are actually manufactured by FN, despite the Browning rollmark.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

FM90s are a great Hi Power clone. They don't have the same slide design as a Browning Hi Power but more like a 1911s. Internally the gun is identical to a Browning Hi Power so all parts will fit. I still have one in my possession but next week it's gone as my friend is making the final payment on it. I wish I could keep it but I wanted the money to fund other gun projects.

 

[jim243]

OK, guys don't throw eggs at me. I had a BHP made by FN that I used for 20 years. They are a great looking guns and shot very well, but to be honest they are also light in the nose and provides too much recoil (flip). I would profer the PT-92 or Beretta 92 over the Browning, or my CZ 75 P-01 for that matter.

Thanks, Boris, I allways wondered why the FN's sold in Europe were called Brownings, I have a FNH USA FNP-40 and the same gun is called a Browning 40 overseas.

Good Luck to you all.
Jim

 

[Lothar]

OK, guys don't throw eggs at me. I had a BHP made by FN that I used for 20 years. They are a great looking guns and shot very well, but to be honest they are also light in the nose and provides too much recoil (flip). I would profer the PT-92 or Beretta 92 over the Browning, or my CZ 75 P-01 for that matter.

<Lobs egg, but shoots it away with his Hi-Power before impact> ;-)

I own a BHP and a Beretta 92A1. They're both great guns, but I can shoot my BHP much more accurately, and have been able to ever since the first day I shot it. The Beretta, while being very accurate and very reliable (I've never had a single malfunction of any sort), is a hulking big gun for a 9mm. If that extra size came along with extra weight for better recoil mitigation, it might be okay, but the Beretta weighs about the same as many full-size 9's that are more compact, such as a Sig P226, a CZ 75 B, and just a bit more than a BHP (maybe 2 ounces).

YMMV.

I don't mean to overly criticize the Beretta though, just to defend the BHP.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

Of course it is. I'm just pointing out that they aren't made by Browning. I believe all the British commonwealth Hi Powers are also marked Browning. I too refer to the Hi Power as the BHP or Browning Hi Power. I was just pointing out to anyone who doesn't know, that the guns are actually manufactured by FN, despite the Browning rollmark.

The Inglis guns are marked BROWNING FN 9MM HP INGLIS CANADA. Might be hard to tell who made it if you didn't know!

 

[JRH6856]

I was just pointing out to anyone who doesn't know, that the guns are actually manufactured by FN, despite the Browning rollmark.

Browning isn't just made by FN, Browning Arms Company is a wholly owned subsidiary of FN. So even it the Hi Power were made in a separate dedicated factory, it would still be made by FN. The distinction is without significance.

 

[Pilot]

Shooting guns is a personal thing. For ME, my stock, MK III Browning Hi Power is my most accurate center fire hand gun. However, my CZ-75's, HK P7's, and a few others are very close, but my Hi Power is just a hair above. It is an easy psitol to shoot accurately for me even though the trigger reach is almost a bit short. I have large hands, with long fingers.

I find the recoil of the BHP very manageable with little muzzle rise. About the same as my CZ's or P7's which is saying a lot as they are wonderful in that department.

 

[rellascout]

Browning isn't just made by FN, Browning Arms Company is a wholly owned subsidiary of FN. So even it the Hi Power were made in a separate dedicated factory, it would still be made by FN. The distinction is without significance.

That is the point that KodiakBeer is trying to make.

All poodles are dogs. Not all dogs are poodles....... All Brownings are FNs not all FNs are Brownings.

Browning is a name that FN uses to sell guns that are not a company in and of themselves. It is powerful name brand which FN leverages very effectively.

 

[JRH6856]

Browning is a name that FN uses to sell guns that are not a company in and of themselves.

FAIL! Browning Arms Company is a corporation. Like all corporations, it has stock and the fact that all of its stock is owned by FN. does not mean that it does not exist as a company. Browning Arms has a separate management structure and separate accounting. It is a company in and of itself. It is not an arms manufacturing company, and was founded in 1878 to market, not manufacture, John M. Browning's firearms designs, most of which have been manufactured by other companies, either under license or outright sale of the patents (such as the Colt 1911) . FN has always manufactured the Hi-Power, the design having originated with J.M Browning and finalized at FN by Dieudonné Saive after Browning's death. FN also manufactured other J.M. Browning designs includingthe Auto-5 shotgun and the BAR. FN acquired Browning Arms Company in 1977 but it continued to operate as an independent subsidiary company.

All Brownings are FNs not all FNs are Brownings.

That may be the point he is trying to make, but since no one has claimed otherwise, it is pointless.

 

[rellascout]

FAIL! Browning Arms Company is a corporation. Like all corporations, it has stock and the fact that all of its stock is owned by FN. does not mean that it does not exist as a company. Browning Arms has a separate management structure and separate accounting. It is a company in and of itself. It is not an arms manufacturing company, and was founded in 1878 to market, not manufacture, John M. Browning's firearms designs, most of which have been manufactured by other companies, either under license or outright sale of the patents (such as the Colt 1911) . FN has always manufactured the Hi-Power, the design having originated with J.M Browning and finalized at FN by Dieudonné Saive after Browning's death. FN also manufactured other J.M. Browning designs includingthe Auto-5 shotgun and the BAR. FN acquired Browning Arms Company in 1977 but it continued to operate as an independent subsidiary company.

Whatever... As you said I both know they manufacture nothing themselves. They are a privately held company so the fact they have stock is irrelevant. They are a name that FN slaps onto products which have a lineage based in the Browning name. Nothing more. FN is the owner and controls what happens at Browning. They are not making moves in the marketplace without the blessings of their master. If you are foolish enough to believe that they are a independent company I have a bridge in NYC you might be interested in.

 

[bophi]

straightjacket the barrel

what is meant by this "tlynch" (straightjacket)

 

[Gordon]

I have a nazi marked P35 that doesn't say Browning ! The 1945 Inglis MK1* does as noted above as does the T series Mk 1 , the MK2 Military contract and the MK3 Practical are also Browning although THAT was "assembled in Portugal". I gave my very nice FEG P9 ventilated rib gun to my son who loves it. It was all Hi Power inside and very nicely made but the vent rib and the sights were weird but right on.

 

[JRH6856]

Whatever... As you sand I both know they manufacture nothing themselves. They are a privately held company so the fact they have stock is irrelevant. They are a name that FN slaps onto products which have a lineage based in the Browning name. Nothing more. FN is the owner and controls what happens at Browning.

That may all be all true in a sense, but as i said, all a pointless distinction. It's like people buying from Sears which is really K-Mart since K-Mart bought Sears then assumed the Sears name. Or the endless arguments about Chevy trucks vs. GMC. Chevy and GMC owners think they are different but Ford truck owners think they are the same. But then, I have a Ford Ranger which was built by Mazda but is still a Ford because the warranty comes from Ford and won't be honored by Mazda. Did you know that there are those that claim The Illiad was not written by Homer but by another greek with the same name?

 

[dogmush]

what is meant by this "tlynch" (straightjacket)

He's referencing an experiment that I did on a barrel treatment for rifles that makes them more accurate. It was a pretty long thread on the THR.us site that devolved into another member and I long-windedly disagreeing on some claims that had been made.

Which was a shame because the company and the barrel treatment are both pretty cool and work pretty well. The thread should still be up on GRM under my same username.


And Sarco charged my card, so I should have a new pistol sometime next week.

 

[genstab]

Well, I guess we got it straightened out about FN and Browning. One thing I could throw in is that the Browning BDM was the only pistol manufactured by Browning in the US until the present newer polymer guns, some of which which I think Browning is making here. Some of you know more about them than I do and could fill us in on which ones- but I'm sticking with steel FN/Brownings. Just personal preference.

Best regards,
Bill in Cleveland

 

[SFsc616171]

Browning! Browning! Who's got the Browning!

Dogmush,

I own a BHP Mk II, USAF blue matte, ridge down top of slide, 1911 military style sights.

I own a brand new SHOT-show digi-camo's BHP MK III, new brown digital camoflage, 3-dot sights.

Both are great guns. Both shoot well, and handle the ammo I feed them, well.

A new Browning is not an inexpensive purchase. My Mark II wasn't either. They are quality firearms, and built to last a while. BHP's have seen service from WW2, (both sides), through Vietnam, through the Falklands (both sides), and through till now. In fact, there is a photo out somewhere, that has Prince William with a BHP in a chest mount.

I acknowledge that a CZ-75b is built from a BHP, and their two-tone version, looks as pretty as a BHP Practical series, and less costly.

I own them, because they are 'the other brother', (as to Harry's wand) to the 1911 pistol, exploding through design and tooling, from St. John Moses Browning, himself, and in my hands, that accurate.

 

[johnnydollar]

Well, I guess we got it straightened out about FN and Browning. One thing I could throw in is that the Browning BDM was the only pistol manufactured by Browning in the US until the present newer polymer guns, some of which which I think Browning is making here. Some of you know more about them than I do and could fill us in on which ones- but I'm sticking with steel FN/Brownings. Just personal preference.

Best regards,
Bill in Cleveland

Bill, the BDM was made in Utah by a company called ATI, which then made (and I think still makes) the Buckmark .22 pistols.

 

[dogmush]

Decision vindicated!

I picked up my new Hi Power today. When I pulled it out of the envelope at my FFL, it was dirty, but looked pretty clean, given what I'd read about Sarco's "Fair" condition.

The first thing I noticed was it's not what I would have called a Browning Hi Power. It's a FN pistol with no Browning rollmarks. I wanted a "real" Hi Power and I sure got one. There's some pitting and a few spots where it's been dinged up but overall I'm tickled with the buy. In fact, after I shoot it a bit, assuming I like it, this pistol might be in line for a reblue and some nicer grips to bring it back to it's former glory. It could end up being a beautiful addition to my collection. Even if no restoration is done, I have a pretty solid shooter that's at least 50 years old. The Houge grips are gonna have to go no matter what though. This thing is gonna need some nice wood.

Pics:




And with a couple other of my Browning designed projects:


Anyone have any ideas on where to start trying to date this one?

 

[JRH6856]

This page might help some

 

[dogmush]

Well it helps a little. It tells me what it's not. The proof marks aren't Wehermacht, so it's not a WWII nazi pistol.

My understanding is that FN was not very consistent with their numbering.

No tangent sight and no stock slot put's it probably post-war. By the time FN started stamping them Browning and importing them to the US in 1954 they were in the 70,000 range so it's probably a post war, pre-54 gun, although I have seen a referance to a pistol in the 46,000 range, with the same features as mine, being circa 1939. So maybe mine is late '30's but pre-war.

Any FN Guru's out there care to take a stab at id-ing it? Still pretty happy with the buy.

 

[JRH6856]

So maybe mine is late '30's but pre-war.

Well, the Nazi's took over in 1940 and since it was introduced in 1935, it couldn't be early '30s. And narrowing it down to a 4-5 year range is pretty good.

 

[dogmush]

It depends on who on the internet you choose to believe. It's much more likely that it's post-war, pre'54 based just on the numbers made. The fixed sights make it post-war too. That 9 years mighty be as close as I can get unless I want to start buying expensive books and trying to track down contract numbers. I'm going someone that already owns the expensive book will see this and take pity on me.