Question on how the SAA was carried in the 19th century

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RON in PA

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Nowadays we are strongly advised to load and carry SAA revolvers with five rounds only, hammer down on an empty chamber. The first click when cocking the hammer is the "safe" position that theoretically allows carry with six rounds. Is it known what was commonly done in the 19th century by the US Cavalry and law enforcement who carried the SAA?
 
I used to have a book with reprints of Colt catalog cuts and leaflets. An 1880s Colt leaflet had you loading all six and engaging the quarter cock notch.
I don't know what the Army and the Sheriff did in those days, but people from Elmer Keith to Ruger's lawyers had a lot of stories of guns firing off the quarter cock, so it seems a common practice.

My Dad carried his Police Positive Special with an empty chamber under the hammer.
 
I'm sure it wasn't much different than today, guys who like an empty chamber VS guys who liked a full cylinder. Like today with guys who want a manual safety VS those who won't have one.
Imagine the caliber debates back then and the colt haters :what:. Yesteryears version of glock haters, or something like that.
Haha, that conjures up the image of two drunken saloon ruffians getting into a gunfight after arguing about the correct way to carry a SA revolver....and the guy with 6 rounds winning! :D
 
i dont know if there is any truth to it, but there is always the legend that they would carry rolled up money in one cylinder, the logic being that if you had to grab one thing and run, it would be your gun and money.

I have heard that story before and sort of doubt it. First how many shots before your money would be scrorched from the blow by of BP rounds going off? What if you really needed to load all 6 cylinders? To remove the money you may have to remove the cylinder to get it out. And I would think rolled up money would be too long to fit in the cylinder. And last until the Federal Government decided to print money bank notes were just that. Notes of money issued by each bank. I am not sure banks would honor paper money bank notes from another bank. Especially a bank from another state or from far away since counterfeiting was popular back then. Thats why gold and silver coins were so popular. They were good everywhere.
 
If it were me, back then, I would load 6, carry it on 1/4 cock, and have my holster thumb break routed under the hammer. Should be workable, imo.

No offense but I've carried traditional single actions (1st Gen Colts for a large part of that time) in 19th Century style leather and I cannot picture any way to do what you suggest. In what you are calling "1/4 cock" and what Colt called "safe" the hammer is still largely buried in the frame. It is only raised slightly versus the hammer all the way forward.

Dave
 
If it were me, back then, I would load 6, carry it on 1/4 cock, and have my holster thumb break routed under the hammer. Should be workable, imo.

I don't think they had thumb break holsters way back then. I think those are a later 20th century invention. I guess you could use a tab of soft leather and cock the hammer, insert the leather between the hammer and frame and lower the hammer. Then when needed cock the hammer and yank out the leather tab. But I don't see that really being done.

I think this is more likely the correct answer.

In the book of The Searchers, Amos (Ethan/John Wayne in the movie) carried 5 routinely but when approaching an Indian village, paused to load the sixth.
 
I recall reading the folks didn't like carrying on quarter cock because if the hammer was bumped hard enough, or gun was dropped the 1/4 cock notch was rather small and could break somewhat easlily . Resulting in a unintended discharge.

But idk just what I read ,not sure the truth to it.
 
The Colt and Remington cap-and-ball revolvers had notches between the chambers (which were usually referred to as "charge holes" back then) which allowed the hammer to rest in a half way position. So the likelihood of an accidental discharge was known even prior to the coming of cartridge revolvers.
The Colts had pins rather than deep notches, incidentally.

Bob Wright
 
O.K. This is as dangerous as all get-out, but I've done this with a Super Blackhawk: After getting on your stand, in this case I was on the ground. I had my Super Blackhawk loaded with five rounds, empty chamber under the hammer. Then cocked the .44 and eased the hammer down to the half cock, or loading notch. There is now a loaded round in line with the barrel. When game was sighted and ready to shoot, I sort of eased back on the trigger as I drew the hammer to full cock. No clicks or game-frightening noise whatsoever.
Note that I am not one to drop my gun or fall off to sleep in such cases. Worked for me many times.

Bob Wright
 
Howdy

These are the parts inside a Colt Single Action Army. The upper arrow is pointing to the so called 'safety cock' notch on the hammer. I shoot Colts all the time and I have never heard it called 1/4 cock. The lower arrow is pointing to the tip of the trigger called the sear. Notice how thin the sear is. With the sear in the 'safety cock' notch, it would not take much of a blow to the hammer spur to either shear off the overhanging lip of the 'safety cock' notch, or shear off the tip of the sear. This would allow the firing pin to jump forward and fire a cartridge under the hammer. If the gun were dropped onto a hard surface and landed on the hammer this is pretty much guaranteed to happen.Yes, it has happened many times, in fact dropping a stirrup of a saddle on the hammer spur while preparing to mount a horse could also result in an unexpected discharge, with the bullet hitting the unlucky recipient in the leg. Yes, it has happened. Because the parts are so delicate, it is absolutely unsafe to carry a Colt, or any single action revolver with a similar lockwork, completely loaded with six rounds and the hammer down on a live round. Even with the hammer in the 'safety cock' position.

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This is a Colt Single Action Army cylinder loaded with six spent 45 Colt rounds. If one were to place the firing pin between rims, there is very little space. The firing pin would be resting in the narrowest space between rims. I have tried this (with spent rounds like this). The firing pin absolutely will not prevent the cylinder from rotating. The bevel on the edges of the rims allows the rounded tip of the firing firing pin to ride up and over the rims. This technique is not a safe way to carry a Colt chambered for cartridges with large rims, such as 45 Colt, 44-40 or 38-40, which have larger diameter rims than 45 Colt. It might work for 44 Special, I have not tried. It would probably work for 357 Magnum or 38 Special, but I don't have a Colt chambered in those calibers to try.

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Yes, the Police Positives had an internal hammer block. The square piece between the hammer and the frame in this Police Positive Special is the internal hammer block. Colt patented this design in 1905, and called it the Positive Lock. This is how the Police Positive series got their name. Once the trigger was released, the hammer block would rise up and wedge the hammer back from the frame.

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As either the trigger was pulled, or the hammer cocked, the hammer block would be pulled down. This would allow the hammer to fall all the way to fire a cartridge. As soon as the trigger was released for another shot, the hammer block would rise again, shoving itself between the hammer and the frame.This hammer block was a positive mechanical hammer block. It was moved by the mechanical action of the lockwork. The early Smith and Wesson hammer blocks on the other hand relied on a spring to push the hammer block into the 'safe' position. In my humble opinion, the Colt design was better, as was proven in 1944 when a sailor was killed by a S&W revolver, probably a Victory Model falling to the deck of a warship and discharging. The investigation that followed showed that cosmoline in the mechanism had hardened, preventing the spring from pushing the hammer block into the 'safe' position. S&W changed their hammer block design right after that incident to the current hammer block which is mechanically activated by the lockwork.

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The way I heard it, the money in the empty chamber was for the undertaker. Other than Wild Bill, and a few others, not many Colt owners fired their Colts all that much in the Old West. I would suspect that a twenty collar bill rolled up in a chamber would stay fresh and uncharred for a long time.

I took these photos a few years ago when this same question came up in one of the gun forums. Here is a modern twenty dollar bill under the cylinder of a 32 caliber S&W #2 Old Army on the left and a Colt SAA 38-40 on the right.

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The twenty does not fit inside the 32 chamber very well.

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It fits just fine in the Colt chamber, and this would probably be an excellent place to hide a little bit of money. Who is going to take away your pistol to find your money?

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Regarding how many rounds did 19th Century shooters load in their Colts? I'm sure those who actually understood these guns would only load five.

But as John Wayne said once, "If you think you're going to need six, load six."
 
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O.K. This is as dangerous as all get-out, but I've done this with a Super Blackhawk: After getting on your stand, in this case I was on the ground. I had my Super Blackhawk loaded with five rounds, empty chamber under the hammer. Then cocked the .44 and eased the hammer down to the half cock, or loading notch. There is now a loaded round in line with the barrel. When game was sighted and ready to shoot, I sort of eased back on the trigger as I drew the hammer to full cock. No clicks or game-frightening noise whatsoever.

Hi Bob

Obviously that was an old Three Screw Super Blackhawk.
 
I have heard that story before and sort of doubt it. First how many shots before your money would be scrorched from the blow by of BP rounds going off? What if you really needed to load all 6 cylinders? To remove the money you may have to remove the cylinder to get it out. And I would think rolled up money would be too long to fit in the cylinder. And last until the Federal Government decided to print money bank notes were just that. Notes of money issued by each bank. I am not sure banks would honor paper money bank notes from another bank. Especially a bank from another state or from far away since counterfeiting was popular back then. Thats why gold and silver coins were so popular. They were good everywhere.

You could make a gold or silver "bullet" for the sixth chamber. Safe gun, and always a little "bank", in case of emergency.

As to an empty chamber now, most new designs, like the Rugers, have a block, to prevent unwanted discharges. So you can load all six, safely.

NightLordLock, "speed rig" holsters, as we know them today, were an invention of the early Hollywood Studio Film-Makers, like Republic, which did all the John Wayne B&W shorts, back in the mid-1930s. Back in the day, Dragoons and such were carried on saddle holsters, on horseback.
 
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