Question on loading 9mm

[Theinkman]

I have been loading for a long time, rifle and revolver. My first time loading for pistol. S&W MP9 recently purchased; first time shooting. Normally I would shoot some factory rounds when first shooting a gun but couldn't find any 9mm available locally. I loaded 3 different charge weights in each of 2 different powders-Unique and W231. Hornady 115 gr XTP bullets.

Loads with 231 shot fine. Ejected cleanly, cycled fine, everything was good. Cases were a little sooty causing me to think I should try a heavier load.

Loads with Unique were problematic. Very weak ejection, several instances where the spent case did not eject at all, and lots of issues cycling the action. Frequently jammed when the follow-up round did not get picked up cleanly. Also the slide did not lock open after last round fired.

CCI 500 primers on all, the Unique loads were 4.7, 4.9, and 5.1 grains. Lyman 50th shows a starting load of 4.4 gr. Loaded to an OAL of 1.090. Did the plunk test on all. The can of Unique I am using is old-purchased mid-90s. I have used this same powder for .38 spec and .44 mag loads with no problems but don't expect those would show anything.

Question-is it possible this powder has deteriorated over time? When I started using this again, I checked for any unusual odor and didn't notice anything. I also poured a little powder on concrete and lit it just to see if it would still ignite. Lit up fine. Granted not a scientific test but I felt it was adequate.

Any thoughts?

 

[Starter52]

I have never liked Unique for 9mm handloads. I prefer a faster burning powder.

 

[mrawesome22-250]

My load of Unique in 9x19 is 5.8gr with a 124gr bullet.

5.1gr with a 115 is too light.

 

[12Bravo20]

From what I could find on Alliant and Speer websites, 6.3gr is max for 115gr bullets. Alliant only list the max while Speer gives both start and max. Speer lists start at 5.6gr and max at 6.3gr.

As far a sooty cases, you will get that with both Alliant Unique and Hodgdon Universal when used for 9mm. I get sooty cases with Universal but the rounds function well and are accurate out of my pistols.

 

[Theinkman]

It would appear that the recommend starting charge weight in the Lyman 50th manual is way underpowered, at least for my gun. Interesting that the your load for 124gr is 5.8 gr, while the Lyman manual shows a max load for a 124gr JHP using Unique at 4.5 gr. Something is off here.

 

[Charlie98]

I just ran some loads this weekend. My notes say 5.0grn Unique under a 115grn Hornady FMJ bullet was light but accurate, producing 1000fps out of my 3.6" Kahr barrel. Definitely too light.

 

[Walkalong]

The 2018 Alliant PDF shows a max of 6.3 Grs Unique with a 115 Gr Speer GDHP, Reduce 10% to start, 1.125 OAL.

Running at 1.090 OAL you are likley seated deepr in the case with the XTP, and will have to stop short of 6.3 Grs, but you have also proven that 5.1 is too low. Bump it up slow until it feels/functions right. This is where having a chrono can be handy.

 

[Theinkman]

Wasn't really at the chrono stage yet. Just wanted to see how the gun shot and how my loads worked. I wonder why the Lyman manual showed such a low starting charge when most other sources are showing a significantly higher starting point.

So I guess it is pretty safe to say the issues I was having while shooting the Unique loads can be linked to too low a charge. I appreciate everyone's input and insight on this. The reason I joined.

Tim

 

[Theinkman]

I intend to revisit this post after my next range trip and will at that time let you all know how it turns out.
Thanks again.

 

[12Bravo20]

Try a charge halfway between the start and max load.

I have found that works for me at least with Universal.

 

[74shooter]

What firearm and barrel length?

 

[viagrow]

I have been loading for a long time, rifle and revolver. My first time loading for pistol. S&W MP9 recently purchased; first time shooting. Normally I would shoot some factory rounds when first shooting a gun but couldn't find any 9mm available locally. I loaded 3 different charge weights in each of 2 different powders-Unique and W231. Hornady 115 gr XTP bullets.

Loads with 231 shot fine. Ejected cleanly, cycled fine, everything was good. Cases were a little sooty causing me to think I should try a heavier load.

Loads with Unique were problematic. Very weak ejection, several instances where the spent case did not eject at all, and lots of issues cycling the action. Frequently jammed when the follow-up round did not get picked up cleanly. Also the slide did not lock open after last round fired.

CCI 500 primers on all, the Unique loads were 4.7, 4.9, and 5.1 grains. Lyman 50th shows a starting load of 4.4 gr. Loaded to an OAL of 1.090. Did the plunk test on all. The can of Unique I am using is old-purchased mid-90s. I have used this same powder for .38 spec and .44 mag loads with no problems but don't expect those would show anything.

Question-is it possible this powder has deteriorated over time? When I started using this again, I checked for any unusual odor and didn't notice anything. I also poured a little powder on concrete and lit it just to see if it would still ignite. Lit up fine. Granted not a scientific test but I felt it was adequate.

Any thoughts?

I like TiteGroup for 9mm.

 

[68Dave]

My unique load for 115 xtp is 5.7 at 1.090 oal.
Very accurate and ran 1245 fps out of a 4 inch barrel.
David

 

[viagrow]

My unique load for 115 xtp is 5.7 at 1.090 oal.
Very accurate and ran 1245 fps out of a 4 inch barrel.
David

If I can get some Unique I will give it a go.

 

[Theinkman]

What firearm and barrel length?

MP9 M2.0 5" barrel

 

[Ironicaintit]

My unique load for 115 xtp is 5.7 at 1.090 oal.
Very accurate and ran 1245 fps out of a 4 inch barrel.
David

That’s real close to mine, but with 5.8gr set at 1.100. Runs over 1200fps and is real accurate with my BHP. Worked real nice from a sterling too

 

[Charlie98]

I have never liked Unique for 9mm handloads. I prefer a faster burning powder.

It's interesting you mention that. I gave up many years ago reloading for the 9mm, largely do to pressure issues loading 9mm with Unique. Hindsight tells me I wasn't paying attention to the OAL and running the charges up at max, but at the time it frustrated me enough that I swore off 9mm, sold all my 9mm reloading everything, and lived happily ever after.

Fast forward 20 years, and I've come full circle back to reloading 9mm. Yes, I had to buy new dies, and I regret selling off that 60# case of Winchester 115grn bullets... oh, well. Anyway, researching appropriate powders for 9mm I've found a lot of people tend to favor slower powders... starting at Unique and going slower (think PowerPistol, BlueDot, TrueBlue, AA#9, et al...) for full power loads. Now that I understand the relationship (and importance) of bullet seating depth in a cartridge like the 9mm, using a powder like Unique it's quite easy working up a load to the desired FPS (or power level, etc...) I also have some TiteGroup I'm trying to use up, a relatively fast powder. True, it gets me where I want FPS-wise with a 115 or 124grn bullet, but boy howdy! you better pay attention to what bullet you are using and it's seating depth, more so than with Unique, for example. I'll bet it's great for mid-range and target loads, but that's not what I shoot. I guess it all depends on what you want out of your handloads.

 

[LiveLife]

Normally I would shoot some factory rounds when first shooting a gun but couldn't find any 9mm available locally

FWIW, for decades I have used 115 gr FMJ with 4.8 gr of W231/HP-38 loaded to 1.130"-1.135" as my 9mm reference load that is comparable to Winchester white box.

It's near max of Speer published max load data for thick plated RN (TMJ) and if you are needing factory ammunition for comparison of accuracy/operational function, this reference load will do in a snap - https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...m_caliber_355-366_dia/9mm_Luger__115_rev1.pdf

• 9mm 115 gr Speer TMJ W231 OAL 1.135" Start 4.4 gr (1026 fps) - Max 4.9 gr (1133 fps)

Hornady 115 gr XTP bullets ... OAL of 1.090 ... 231 shot fine. Ejected cleanly, cycled fine, everything was good. Cases were a little sooty causing me to think I should try a heavier load ... Any thoughts?

You didn't post the powder charge used with W231 but sounds like you need to increase the powder charge.

And since you are using different type of bullet with likely shorter OAL/bullet seating depth, I would consider reducing start/max charges by .2-.3 gr.

Here's Hodgdon's load data for W231 - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

• 9mm 115 gr Speer Gold Dot HP W231 COL 1.125" Start 4.7 gr (1,075 fps) - Max 5.1 gr (1,167 fps)

Hornady 115 gr XTP bullets ... Unique loads were 4.7, 4.9, and 5.1 grains ... OAL of 1.090. Did the plunk test on all

Here's Speer load data for Unique - https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...m_caliber_355-366_dia/9mm_Luger__115_rev1.pdf

And since you are using different type of bullet with likely shorter OAL/bullet seating depth, I would consider reducing start/max charges by .2-.3 gr.

• 9mm 115 gr Speer Gold Dot HP Unique OAL 1.125" Start 5.6 gr (1166 fps) - Max 6.3 gr (1244 fps)

 

[Theinkman]

Some manuals recommended an OAL of 1.125 with the 115 gr XTP, but those failed the plunk test in my gun. I gradually seated the bullet a little deeper until I found the OAL which passed the test. Turned out that was 1.090.

My initial loads using W231 were 4.1gr, 4.3gr, and 4.5gr. These weights were based on the Lyman showing a suggested starting weight of 3.5gr and a max of 4.9gr. Again compared with other manufacturer's data, these seem low.

 

[LiveLife]

My initial loads using W231 were 4.1gr, 4.3gr, and 4.5gr.

4.5 gr of W231 is essentially start charge and powder burn will be less efficient as evidenced by soot on case.

I would test 4.6, 4.7 and 4.8 gr and look for accuracy trend and anticipate soot on case will be diminished or go away.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I’ve used 4.9gr of 231/HP38 in my S&W match pistols for several decades. It duplicates milspec 115gr and I’ve shot records and won many matches with it. 5.2 is a +P load. I’ve only tried it a few times to verify accuracy and function when getting another lot#. Always went back to 4.9 though.

Never really used Unique as it doesn’t meter as well. A long deceased founding member of this forum used 6.0 Unique with a 124gr bullet in Browning HighPowers, but I found 5.8 to be more to my liking, when I did use it, but chose to weigh check the measured charges.

BTW; a previous poster asked which gun and bullet. He meant what gun/bullet combination that Lyman used to derive the data. Often they use industry standard (minimum spec) 4”barrels in a Universal test fixture. No regard to functioning a production semi auto... as you found out the hard way.

 

[Theinkman]

I’ve used 4.9gr of 231/HP38 in my S&W match pistols for several decades. It duplicates milspec 115gr and I’ve shot records and won many matches with it. 5.2 is a +P load. I’ve only tried it a few times to verify accuracy and function when getting another lot#. Always went back to 4.9 though.

Never really used Unique as it doesn’t meter as well. A long deceased founding member of this forum used 6.0 Unique with a 124gr bullet in Browning HighPowers, but I found 5.8 to be more to my liking, when I did use it, but chose to weigh check the measured charges.

BTW; a previous poster asked which gun and bullet. He meant what gun/bullet combination that Lyman used to derive the data. Often they use industry standard (minimum spec) 4”barrels in a Universal test fixture. No regard to functioning a production semi auto... as you found out the hard way.

That's exactly the testing fixture they used. I guess all that has to happen there is the bullet needs to come out the end of the barrel without exceeding SAAMI pressures. And you're right about Unique not metering well. Given that, it generally works well in many different calibers.

Lot of good advice here-thank you all for sharing your experience and knowledge.

 

[sparkyv]

My Unique loads we 4.6, 5.0, 5.6 gr over a 115gr RN plated at 1.157" COAL. Shot out of my RAP, it all performed acceptably, and the 5.0gr load was most accurate, no chrony. This was just a test load. I much prefer to use HP38/W231 or Universal in my 9mms. Longshot works pretty well, too. YMMV

If you stored the powder in a closed container indoors, it won't deteriorate.

CCI 500 primers on all, the Unique loads were 4.7, 4.9, and 5.1 grains. Lyman 50th shows a starting load of 4.4 gr. Loaded to an OAL of 1.090.

Question-is it possible this powder has deteriorated over time?

 

[drband]

If you stored the powder in a closed container indoors, it won't deteriorate.

I think that any powder, given enough time, will deteriorate, sealed or unsealed, especially if there is significant temperature variation. I assume @sparkyv means indoors in climate controlled conditions, and I agree that it will last a long, long time if that is the case. 30-40 years? I don't know, but I would check it before using (smell test-acrid indicates breakdown), and notice if it looked "rusty" or discolored in some other way. If it looks and smells OK, then it's "probably" good at least for working up a load to see how it performs. I've never loaded powder that old.

 

[rfwobbly]

Some manuals recommended an OAL of 1.125 with the 115 gr XTP, but those failed the plunk test in my gun. I gradually seated the bullet a little deeper until I found the OAL which passed the test. Turned out that was 1.090.

Manuals don't recommend anything. They simply report what OAL they used with a powder load. Their report simply says "This worked for us and no one died. Now, go make it work for you."

The actual dimensions of chambers varies wildly between gun makers. The only way they could "recommend" an OAL is to be using the exact same make and model gun as you. That is highly improbable.

Start reading the load manual as a "Test Report". Then, transitioning the data to your gun will become much easier.