I want a .22 semi-auto, especially with ammo so high. I have a Beretta 92FS for centerfire....I do not want to spend a bunch of money on a conversion, would rather buy a new gun. I have never had a .22 auto. I am not rich but have enough money in my sunset years (age 66) to buy a $550 gun instead of a $275 gun. I have looked at a lot of .22 semi-autos in showcases and do not like the looks of most of them. I have read that the good Ruger semi is hard to field strip and clean. Do not want that. I like the looks of the CZ, it feels good in my hands, there is one locally I held today. It seems it would be close enough to my 92FS to be good practice on the cheap. Now, tell me if there are reasons I should not buy it. I understand that CZ makes quality products. What are the things that one could complain about regarding the Kadet? I appreciate all feedback. There is one in town, one does not see them very often without ordering off the internet. I would rather not do that if possible. This one is new in box with two mags and is $550 and the CZ web site says MSRP is $689. So, this is about 20% off list price. I see CZ 75s at gun shows in the $550 range but never have seen a Kadet at a show. I am not unhappy about the price....you know...a bird in the hand and all that....one store employee at another store says CZs can be dicy to get what with imported and the Euro being strong against the dollar. Okay, sorry I rambled. Please let me know what you know or think you know about this gun. Thanks in advance for your help.
Question:Why shouldn't I buy a CZ Kadet?
- Thread starter moewadle
- Start date
- Status
jhco
Member
Go for it they are supposed to be great plus the looks don't hurt either
lexjj
Member
I think your plan may defeat the purpose of the Kadet. If you buy the Kadet .22 pistol. You will always have just a .22 pistol. But if you buy a CZ centerfire pistol like the CZ 75B, you can then purchase a Kadet conversion kit. Your centerfire pistol will now be able to shoot .22's and you will be able to practice on the exact same frame/trigger with cheap ammunition.
Just to clarify the previous post.
You CAN buy a 22 top end (Kadet conversion kit) but cannot buy (except in secondary market) a top end in any other caliber.
Should you want to convert a CZ .22 into a more meaningful caliber later it will be more difficult.
That being said I bought my CZ 75B in 9mm and bought the Kadet kit later. And no there is no reason not to do this if you have the money.
Otherwise buying a whole 22 pistol such as the Walther P22 or Browning will be slightly cheaper.
You CAN buy a 22 top end (Kadet conversion kit) but cannot buy (except in secondary market) a top end in any other caliber.
Should you want to convert a CZ .22 into a more meaningful caliber later it will be more difficult.
That being said I bought my CZ 75B in 9mm and bought the Kadet kit later. And no there is no reason not to do this if you have the money.
Otherwise buying a whole 22 pistol such as the Walther P22 or Browning will be slightly cheaper.
Kor
Member
As it happens, I own a Beretta 92FS, a Ruger MkII, and a CZ SP01 with a Kadet kit, so I can speak with some authority on these guns...
1) The grip feel and layout of controls is significantly different between the 92FS and the CZ, so you're not going to get as much benefit from training with the CZ .22LR gun as you would with a conversion kit on your carry Beretta...but, you've said you want a complete .22LR pistol and not a conversion kit, and if you feel that the CZ is close enough to your Beretta to satisfy you, then that's perfectly fine.
2) The Ruger pistols, particularly if you can find a used MkII in good shape, are excellent .22LR guns. The field-strip/re-assembly procedure is somewhat tricky, but it becomes easier once you learn the knack - it helps if you have the manual in front of you, and you THOROUGHLY READ the procedure(as opposed to "skimming" over it, as most American men are wont to do with owner's manuals) as you go. On the other hand, I know from personal experience that Rugers will run quite reliably for well over 1000 rds between cleanings, and even then, dis-assembly is not really necessary - simply lock the bolt(slide) to the rear, remove the grip panels, hose it well with an aerosol powder solvent like GunScrubber, pull a BoreSnake through the barrel from the breech end, and add a couple of drops of oil through the open action to lubricate. If your conscience dictates that you clean the gun more thoroughly, the Majestic Arms "Speed Strip" kit(http://www.powercustom.com/parts_mkII.htm) can make the process significantly easier, though I haven't felt the need for it myself.
3) Magazines for the Ruger pistols are ubiquitous and relatively inexpensive, and are IMO easy to load, especially when you use the side button to depress the follower. If that's still problematic, several companies make loading tools for <$10 to help you depress the side button more easily.
4) The CZ Kadet(whether you buy a complete pistol, or install a kit on an existing pistol) is VERY easy to shoot, has a particularly ergonomic grip and control-layout, and if you are willing to spend an extra $160 for a CZ Custom Shop trigger job(http://czcustom.com/sanditriggerworksada.aspx) you can get a truly competition-grade trigger pull on your gun. My Kadet kit happens to give perfectly acceptable accuracy and reliable functioning with inexpensive bulk .22LR from Federal and CCI. I also know from personal experience that the Kadet will run reliably for well over 1000 rds between cleanings, and field-stripping/re-assembly closely parallels the centerfire CZ pistols - which, by the way, is significantly easier to do than the Ruger .22 pistols. Another point of comparison is that my particular Kadet kit seems to shoot more accurately than my particular Ruger MkII - I've been known to put 38 or 39 shots out of a box of 40 Federal .22LR's into a 3"X5" index card @ 20 yds(standing, two-handed, 1 shot/second "rapid fire") with my Kadet, versus 34-36 out of 40 with my Ruger.
5) Magazines for the CZ Kadet are NOT inexpensive($37/ea, http://czcustom.com/CZ-75-Kadet-22-10-Round.aspx), hold only 10 rds despite being as big as a full-size 9mm CZ75 magazine, are NOT very common(the CZ custom shop website shows they are Out of Stock), and they can be difficult to load for people with arthritis, hand-strength issues, or dexterity issues; there is no button or lever on the Kadet magazines to depress the follower, nor is there a tool to do same - you have to use the rounds to depress the follower, just like on your Beretta mags, except that .22LR rounds are smaller and trickier to handle than even 9mm's.
6) Manually locking the slide back to show clear can also be tricky - the Kadet's slide is a relatively thin slab of steel, and it can sometimes be tough to get a good grip on it despite the gripping grooves. Also, for me, using the tip of my right thumb to engage the slide-lock lever sometimes causes the safety to get pushed upwards by the knuckle of that thumb, which causes a mechanical conflict as the safety wants to lock the slide in the forward position at the same time I'm trying to pull the slide back.
The only (somewhat) real negatives I can come up with for the CZ Kadet are limited to the magazines and the slide manipulation, and if those are non-issues for you then you will be well served by that gun.
However, I should caution you that any money you think the Kadet will save you will probably be offset by the increase in range fees, purchase of targets, and fuel consumption that results as you go out shooting the CZ as often as you will want to...
1) The grip feel and layout of controls is significantly different between the 92FS and the CZ, so you're not going to get as much benefit from training with the CZ .22LR gun as you would with a conversion kit on your carry Beretta...but, you've said you want a complete .22LR pistol and not a conversion kit, and if you feel that the CZ is close enough to your Beretta to satisfy you, then that's perfectly fine.
2) The Ruger pistols, particularly if you can find a used MkII in good shape, are excellent .22LR guns. The field-strip/re-assembly procedure is somewhat tricky, but it becomes easier once you learn the knack - it helps if you have the manual in front of you, and you THOROUGHLY READ the procedure(as opposed to "skimming" over it, as most American men are wont to do with owner's manuals) as you go. On the other hand, I know from personal experience that Rugers will run quite reliably for well over 1000 rds between cleanings, and even then, dis-assembly is not really necessary - simply lock the bolt(slide) to the rear, remove the grip panels, hose it well with an aerosol powder solvent like GunScrubber, pull a BoreSnake through the barrel from the breech end, and add a couple of drops of oil through the open action to lubricate. If your conscience dictates that you clean the gun more thoroughly, the Majestic Arms "Speed Strip" kit(http://www.powercustom.com/parts_mkII.htm) can make the process significantly easier, though I haven't felt the need for it myself.
3) Magazines for the Ruger pistols are ubiquitous and relatively inexpensive, and are IMO easy to load, especially when you use the side button to depress the follower. If that's still problematic, several companies make loading tools for <$10 to help you depress the side button more easily.
4) The CZ Kadet(whether you buy a complete pistol, or install a kit on an existing pistol) is VERY easy to shoot, has a particularly ergonomic grip and control-layout, and if you are willing to spend an extra $160 for a CZ Custom Shop trigger job(http://czcustom.com/sanditriggerworksada.aspx) you can get a truly competition-grade trigger pull on your gun. My Kadet kit happens to give perfectly acceptable accuracy and reliable functioning with inexpensive bulk .22LR from Federal and CCI. I also know from personal experience that the Kadet will run reliably for well over 1000 rds between cleanings, and field-stripping/re-assembly closely parallels the centerfire CZ pistols - which, by the way, is significantly easier to do than the Ruger .22 pistols. Another point of comparison is that my particular Kadet kit seems to shoot more accurately than my particular Ruger MkII - I've been known to put 38 or 39 shots out of a box of 40 Federal .22LR's into a 3"X5" index card @ 20 yds(standing, two-handed, 1 shot/second "rapid fire") with my Kadet, versus 34-36 out of 40 with my Ruger.
5) Magazines for the CZ Kadet are NOT inexpensive($37/ea, http://czcustom.com/CZ-75-Kadet-22-10-Round.aspx), hold only 10 rds despite being as big as a full-size 9mm CZ75 magazine, are NOT very common(the CZ custom shop website shows they are Out of Stock), and they can be difficult to load for people with arthritis, hand-strength issues, or dexterity issues; there is no button or lever on the Kadet magazines to depress the follower, nor is there a tool to do same - you have to use the rounds to depress the follower, just like on your Beretta mags, except that .22LR rounds are smaller and trickier to handle than even 9mm's.
6) Manually locking the slide back to show clear can also be tricky - the Kadet's slide is a relatively thin slab of steel, and it can sometimes be tough to get a good grip on it despite the gripping grooves. Also, for me, using the tip of my right thumb to engage the slide-lock lever sometimes causes the safety to get pushed upwards by the knuckle of that thumb, which causes a mechanical conflict as the safety wants to lock the slide in the forward position at the same time I'm trying to pull the slide back.
The only (somewhat) real negatives I can come up with for the CZ Kadet are limited to the magazines and the slide manipulation, and if those are non-issues for you then you will be well served by that gun.
However, I should caution you that any money you think the Kadet will save you will probably be offset by the increase in range fees, purchase of targets, and fuel consumption that results as you go out shooting the CZ as often as you will want to...
hanno
Member
I'm not going to try to talk you out of a Kadet. I do think it is good advice in the previous posts to get a CZ 75 and a Kadet Kit for it instead of the dedicated Kadet pistol.
I use a Kadet Kit on my CZ 75-SP01 and just love it. It is quality built, accurate, and easy as all get out to take down for cleaning. The only negative is that extra mags are expensive.
Kadet Kit.
My CZ 75-SP01 with Kadet Kit installed.
I use a Kadet Kit on my CZ 75-SP01 and just love it. It is quality built, accurate, and easy as all get out to take down for cleaning. The only negative is that extra mags are expensive.
Kadet Kit.
My CZ 75-SP01 with Kadet Kit installed.
I think Kor compiled an exceptionally accurate and fair summary. He is correct in that the mags can get difficult to load when doing a lot of shooting. I modified a HKS 940 speed loader to fit the Kadet mags and it works extremely well. Just take a Dremel tool or file and remove some of the meat on each side of the part that pushes the round into the mag. This has been a real thumbsaver for me.
I too use a modified HK loader for my Kadet Kit.
On related news UpLula is supposedly coming out with a 22 loader next year.
You can however go to the CZ forum, there's a member there who will mod or tell you how to modify an UpLula for use on the Kadet mags.
On related news UpLula is supposedly coming out with a 22 loader next year.
You can however go to the CZ forum, there's a member there who will mod or tell you how to modify an UpLula for use on the Kadet mags.
Special thanks on info about
modifying a speed-loader. I use one for my Beretta 9mm and could not load more than 3-4 without it due to lack of strength in my hands. Now that I know there is a way to "make" a loading assist tool I am going to buy this gun. I checked the internet and cannot find one less than the $549 for the one right here in my little city. So, not a cheap buy, but reasonable with no FFL or shipping costs. Thank you all and if someone else has information I will gladly read it. The store opens at 8 AM and I am going to be there at 8:01.
modifying a speed-loader. I use one for my Beretta 9mm and could not load more than 3-4 without it due to lack of strength in my hands. Now that I know there is a way to "make" a loading assist tool I am going to buy this gun. I checked the internet and cannot find one less than the $549 for the one right here in my little city. So, not a cheap buy, but reasonable with no FFL or shipping costs. Thank you all and if someone else has information I will gladly read it. The store opens at 8 AM and I am going to be there at 8:01.
I have the 75B in 9mm with the Kadet kit and am very happy with the combination. As previously mentioned, buying the Kadet straight away limits you to .22, which may or may not be an issue, but it will likely be harder to sell down the line.
FYI... Bud's Gun Shop has the 75B in 9mm for $449 shipped right now, and the Kadet kit from czcustom.com was $340 shipped w/2 mags.
FYI... Bud's Gun Shop has the 75B in 9mm for $449 shipped right now, and the Kadet kit from czcustom.com was $340 shipped w/2 mags.
Just to clarify
I do NOT want a conversion kit. I want the .22. I could buy a conversion kit for my Beretta if that is what I wanted. I do appreciate all information given, however. BTW, I wonder if people are aware of the .22 conversion for the Beretta 92FS. I have a feeling a lot of people are not aware that one exists.
I do NOT want a conversion kit. I want the .22. I could buy a conversion kit for my Beretta if that is what I wanted. I do appreciate all information given, however. BTW, I wonder if people are aware of the .22 conversion for the Beretta 92FS. I have a feeling a lot of people are not aware that one exists.
NGIB
Member
I'd take a hard look at the Sig .22s (not the Mosquito) as they come with a coupon to buy the centerfire top end at a reasonable price. I recently picked up a P220R SAO in .22 and it has been totally reliable and accurate. At $399 it is a tad expensive but I'm extremely happy with the performance. If I want to buy the .45 top end (anytime within a year of purchase), I can for another $399.
BTW, I had a CZ-P01 with a Kadet kit and it was a good shooter. I'm just not terribly fond of DA/SA triggers so I traded it away...
BTW, I had a CZ-P01 with a Kadet kit and it was a good shooter. I'm just not terribly fond of DA/SA triggers so I traded it away...
huntsman
Member
That's the one I want.
To the OP I say go for it, you seem to have thought it out and you can get what you want locally in today's economy that's half the battle.
NGIB
Member
Yup, I wanted the single action only trigger as I'm not a real fan of DA/SA. The trigger on this one isn't 1911 quality but it's quite acceptable. Besides, I carry my 1911s cocked & locked so if I buy the .45 top end I can stay consistent...
Back on subject, The Kadet
I am the OP and bought the Kadet yesterday and took it to the outdoor range today for first firing. I am an amateur pretty much so my report is not that of a magazine columnist. Here is what I can say: First...I had to put every penny of this relatively expensive .22 on my credit card and it was worth every cent. I love this gun and will be shooting it a great deal. Second.... appearance: Alright, this may be shallow thinking but first off, I think this is a very good-looking gun. I do not personally like the appearance of a lot of the Ruger and other .22 autos. I like the big calibre look of the Kadet. Third....ergonomics..my hands are a bit on the small side..my Beretta 92FS grips are a tiny bit big but this one has grips just enough smaller that they fit my hands very well. The overall feel and balance of the gun are great to me. One slight disadvantage, but not too critical, as mentioned by other people the slide is not very wide and is a bit difficult to rack compared to a full, "over-the-top" conventional slide. Not a real big deal with a bit of use. Fourth...shooting...this gun has sights adjustable for windage and elevation. I did not have to adjust them with 100 rounds (Winchester Xpert 1300 FPS copper plated) shot today. There were no problems with cycling, etc. I am not a good shot but getting better. Knowing the way I shoot and the patterns I shoot I could tell this firearm was putting the lead where the gun pointed. I was shooting at paper targets at 15 and 10 yards.
In summary.....I am very, very glad I bought the Kadet and highly recommend it as a .22 auto based, admittedly, on having shot only 100 rounds through it so far.
Thanks to everyone for all your comments.
I am the OP and bought the Kadet yesterday and took it to the outdoor range today for first firing. I am an amateur pretty much so my report is not that of a magazine columnist. Here is what I can say: First...I had to put every penny of this relatively expensive .22 on my credit card and it was worth every cent. I love this gun and will be shooting it a great deal. Second.... appearance: Alright, this may be shallow thinking but first off, I think this is a very good-looking gun. I do not personally like the appearance of a lot of the Ruger and other .22 autos. I like the big calibre look of the Kadet. Third....ergonomics..my hands are a bit on the small side..my Beretta 92FS grips are a tiny bit big but this one has grips just enough smaller that they fit my hands very well. The overall feel and balance of the gun are great to me. One slight disadvantage, but not too critical, as mentioned by other people the slide is not very wide and is a bit difficult to rack compared to a full, "over-the-top" conventional slide. Not a real big deal with a bit of use. Fourth...shooting...this gun has sights adjustable for windage and elevation. I did not have to adjust them with 100 rounds (Winchester Xpert 1300 FPS copper plated) shot today. There were no problems with cycling, etc. I am not a good shot but getting better. Knowing the way I shoot and the patterns I shoot I could tell this firearm was putting the lead where the gun pointed. I was shooting at paper targets at 15 and 10 yards.
In summary.....I am very, very glad I bought the Kadet and highly recommend it as a .22 auto based, admittedly, on having shot only 100 rounds through it so far.
Thanks to everyone for all your comments.
huntsman
Member
that's all that counts.
1 old 0311
member
LOVE mine. It's mounted on my P-01. Cheap practice and VERY accurate.
I have the Kadet Kit pretty much installed on top of my 75B all the time. It is identical to a dedicated Kadet pistol. I take it to the range ALL the time and while I do have three Rugers and other .22's. I always shoot the Kadet. Sometimes it goes on my PCR also.
You made a great choice.
You made a great choice.
- Status