Questions about "Enfield 2A Rifles"

[Didorian]

Ok, it's been a while since I posted on here....
But I have a couple of questions about a rifle sale I saw in Shotgun News.
They, aimsurplus.com, has a sale on "shooter grade" Enfield 2A rifles. $99.95 each.
OK, the questions are this;
1, are these rifles known for being accurate?

2, I get the impression that they fire the NATO 7.62X51 round, or the civilian 308 (can a rifle that fires one fire both??) Do they actually fire this round?

and 3, If the rifle does fire this round would it be able to handle modern rounds in that calibur?

I thank you for any help I could get with this...

 

[MolonLabe416]

1. They are minute of goblin. Plenty fine for field work.

2. They are technically chambered for 7.62x51 NATO but will also handle 308 without issue.

3. They are NOT reworked 303 caliber rifles as some error-net commandos seem to think. They are post war rifles made from moderns steel designed to chamber the 7.62 NATO round.

4. I have ejection problems on mine. YMMV.

 

[elmerfudd]

I've got one of the earlier ones that were supposedly of a higher grade. The wood and the finish was pretty rough, but after stripping off the cruddy paint and refinishing it, (with not so cruddy paint), and cleaning up the stock it came out looking OK. Inside the barrel looked brand new and it shoots pretty well. 3 MOA with South African surplus and iron sights is pretty typical for me at 100 yards. With a scope and some good ammo I'm reasonably sure it would do at least 2 MOA. I had to tweak the mag a little to get it to feed from the left side, but it was just a matter of bending the feed lip about half a millimeter or so.

The action on it is very fast and very smooth. The only bolt action I have that compares with it for speed is my K31, but K31's only hold 6 rounds and 2A's hold 12. Some have complained about the 2A's sights, but IMO for iron sights they're actually pretty good. Not as good as a good peep, but much better than on a Mauser, Mosin Nagant or AK.

 

[Ditchtiger]

I've a 2A and a remade jungle carbine in .308. Would not want to be in front of either at 3 or 4 hundred yards. They also shoot 180 gr. lead bullets with equal accuracy

 

[geojap]

I like my Ishy 2A1. It is as accurate as any good quality bolt action battlerifle.

http://www.jasonphillips.org/Firearms_Enfield/Enfield.asp

 

[ir3e971]

I have one, and it is a fine rifle and a good shooter. You won't be unhappy with it.

 

[fatelk]

I just had one ordered, and have been reading as much as I can about the "7.62 NATO vs. .308 Winchester" controversy. Wow, what a minefield that is.

I've found many a ferocious internet argument about whether these rifles can handle commercial .308 ammo. Some folks adamantly say DON'T!! You will blow up your gun, kill yourself, and probably anyone else within 17.5 miles!!
Others say no problem, do it all the time.

I don't mean to hijack your thread, actually I think this adds to your question, but my question is: Has anyone damaged one of these rifles with commercial ammo, either personally or verifiable second hand knowledge? I've found lot of opinion and rumor, but have yet to hear someone say "Yes, I shot Winchester .308 in my Ishapore 2A and now I have split cases all the time" or anything like that. The only thing I've read along those lines is the old "friend of a friend" story, and I'm not totally convinced either way.

 

[grimjaw]

I thought the .308 vs 7.62 NATO was more of an issue with semi-autos than bolt actions?

jm

 

[doubleg]

I personally plan on buying one of these rifles in a couple months. But I want to have it blued and replace the stock if it has repairs and cracks. Does anyone know where to buy nice wood replacement stocks for these things?

 

[spiroxlii]

The .308/7.62 NATO argument gave me a headache when I bought my Ishapore 2A too, but I've fired commercial .308 ammo in it with no problems so far.

.308 Winchester and 7.62x51 (NATO) are nearly identical. There can be some minute differences in their physical dimensions, and there are definitely differences in the pressures developed by each cartridge. To be entirely honest, I believe that the Ishapore (and most other high quality bolt action rifles) can handle both cartridges, but the differences between .308 Winchester and 7.62 NATO would probably be more important for people shooting autos and semi-autos, where the operation of the weapon is largely dependent upon the ammunition.

STOLEN FROM WIKIPEDIA:
The military 7.62x51mm cartridge is not identical to the commercial .308 Winchester. NATO controls specifications for the military round while SAAMI controls specifications for the civilian round. The specifications have been established for two different uses. (1) the SAAMI standard pressure is 50,000 on the (CUP) scale or 62,000 psi, measured with a piezoelectric gauge, for the civilian round. The NATO specification for 7.62x51mm is 50,000 psi.[2] And (2) headspace; the military chamber is specified to be 1.645 inches, compared to the civilian chamber of 1.632 inches. Though this difference is just 0.013 inches,[3] a chamber of acceptable military length will put excessive stress on the thinner civilian brass, causing premature head separation. It is not safe to mix .308 Win and 7.62x51mm ammunition, problems can be encountered due to the maxium pressures developed while firing and this is compunded by the different headspace requirements for each.[4]

 

[Jeremy2171]

So is the military pressure rating in CUP or PSI measured with a piezo gage or a strain gage....??

Once you do some research most people will realize the only difference in the two is the headspace requirements.

Meanwhile I'm back at the range tomorrow with another 100 or so rounds of 190grn Match .308 in my 7.62 FAL. Still haven't had one issue either in semi or full auto.... but hey to each thier own.

 

[spiroxlii]

This reminds me of the .223/5.56 NATO worries that a lot of AR clone shooters worry about.

 

[aloharover]

The difference is in the throat with the mil round being slightly longer.
So the advice has always been to never fire mil ammo from a civilian chamber.
Going the other way is not an issue.

To the OP I have fired a number (8) of the Ishy rifles so far. As they arrive they are fine shooters. Getting 2-2.5" groups at 100yrds using 147g FMJ hand loads, some old Win silvertips, SA surplus, and the Lithuenian(sp) surplus. One of the rifles was actually around 1.6-1.7"
I have not had a chance to fire them at longer ranges yet.

Replacement wood is available. I have seen like new butstocks from Numrich or Sarco I think. Used but good condition forearms.
Maybe someone else can answer if the stocks available for the .303 rifles will fit.
I have been parking the rifles and refinishing the better stocks and they are coming out nice.
This is the only photo I have.



Pete

 

[homeka45]

I may have to break out the C&R for one of these. BTW, nice work Aloharover.

 

[ScottsGT]

MolonLabe416 wrote:

4. I have ejection problems on mine. YMMV.

This is a simple fix, believe it or not! Ignore the ejection screw on the left side of the receiver, that is a carry over design from the .303 rifle. The magazine lip is what ejects the shell. Bend up the left lip just a tiny bit at a time and try it with an empty shell casing you have. Keep bending up until your happy! I cannot tell you how many screws I tried until someone on the old Ishy website enlightened me.
I shot commercial .308 in mine many times with zero problems. My only complaint was that it is hard to get a decent scope mount for these rifles.

 

[mchgnmike]

Okay, I have an Ishapore 2A and it shoots well and is quite accurate

Now I have a question.

Who sells a Scout mount that replaces the rear sight?

I found one (OneHotMount scout scope mount) by researching this and other sites but I cannot find it for sale anywhere.

If anyone has some information I do appreciate it.

 

[aloharover]

Center Fire Systems or Southern Ohio Guns had a section of rail that replaces the rear sight. Saw it in their recent flier. Just don't remember exactly which one. Think it had a $40 price.
I have not seen one in person.

Pete

 

[ScottsGT]

Center Fire Systems or Southern Ohio Guns had a section of rail that replaces the rear sight. Saw it in their recent flier. Just don't remember exactly which one. Think it had a $40 price.
I have not seen one in person.

That's the unit I had. Not too good of a mount as far as I'm concerned. It won't tighten down on center due to the curvature of the receiver where it sits and you have to use Millett rings that you can adjust windage with. Hard to get a scope zeroed in, and hard to keep zero, but that might have been my BSA scope I was using.

 

[aloharover]

Thanks for the feed back Scotts. I will avoid them

A friend made up some 12" long steel sections for me that I want to use and see if I can get something to work.

 

[Victory Man 2007]

Enfield Scope Mount Infro

We had the article in SurplusRifle on the "One Hot Scope Mount" and we
still have mounts. A customer just let us know about this blog so thought I would venture in and hopefully solved the mount mystery. The Photos show that the mount works on all MKIII 303 and also shows the Scout Rifle that we
orginally made the mount for. The Scope Mounts come anodized so they have
a matte black finish..Enjoy Hope to Hear from you....

 

[SMLE]

For some good info on the .308 vs.7.62 issue, click here: http://www.smellysmleshooters.net/ammopressure.htm

 

[Didorian]

Well THAT settles it....

Thanks guys.... I really didn't expect quite the flood of info but thank you....
Now I know I want one... I just have to save up the money to get it...
And I hope that by the time that happens they still have some left... LoL

 

[edthehunt]

Lee-Enfeild 7.62 2A No.1 Mark 3 308

The Enfeild No.1 2A 7.62 shoots the winnchester 308s with no problems mine is in original condition and I have been looking for the right scope mount and finely found it through S&K it mounts with out drilling or tapping and sells for $79.95 plus Shipping I bought it for my Son and I was going to change the stock to a new composite stock and put on the side mount scope and keep all the original stock and parts which in original condition it worth about $400. to $500. Dollars but now he wants a newer 7mm Rifle so it looks like I am going to sell it or trade it but you can get scope mounts for the 2A model but the are hard to fine not like the No.4 or 5s they are easy to find parts for

 

[J&J Rebuild]

what is the reasone for having to mount the scope so far forward on the enfield 308 model 2a

 

[ernest.t.bass]

I've had an Ishapore / Enfield 2A in 7.62 for for at least 15 years. It is a Gibbs Rifle Company "fake" #5 Jungle Carbine. I ordered it "new" in the box sometime in the mid 1990s from Bob Farnsworth in Vonore. Seems like it was about $125. It it probably the ugliest firearm I have ever owned (if you don't count Glocks). It is also heavy, as it is encumbered with at least 4 pounds of wood stock. Almost a year ago I had an order in to Cheaper than Dirt ( I sometimes call "Expensive as Crap") and I added an ATI polymer sporter stock. I got bored today and finally installed the stock.

I really like the change in looks. Now if I can figure out how to add a forward mount-long eye relief scope I will have myself a very low buck "Scout Rifle". Any suggestions?