Questions about Redding Bushing Neck Dies

[Mylhouse]

I'm pretty new to the precision rifle shooting thang, so I've been going at it piecemeal as finances allow. I'm interested in one of the Redding "Bushing" size dies to go with the Forster Ultra Seater that I just got from Cabela's (but haven't used yet).

1) What's the difference between the "Competition" bushing neck size die and the "Type S" bushing neck size die (besides the micrometer on top)?

2) Does the "Type S" have the same "floating sleeve" that is supposed to hold the case in perfect alignment and center the neck in the bushing as the "Competition" die has?

3) Which one should I get?

Background: New to precision rifle shooting, using a Savage 10FP .308. Loading on a Dillon 550 (which came with the 3 die Dillon 308 set and a standard Redding neck size die when I bought it). Using that equipment, my best 3 shot 100yd group was .55" with 175gr SMK. Average groups are closer to 1".

Thanks! (and any additional advice appreciated)

 

[Steve Smith]

IIRC the Competition set uses one die to size the case (bump the shoulder) and one to size the neck. The S die does both in the same die. If you are using a Dillon you need both actions to occur in the same die. Note: if you are loading for a semi-auto you will want to use an S type FULL LENGTH sizing die.

 

[Steve Smith]

Umm, did I help or did I waste my breath (fingers)?

 

[Mylhouse]

Umm, did I help or did I waste my breath (fingers)?

Sorry, Steve, I've been away from the computer for almost the entire weekend.

I don't want to sound like a ingrate, but, no, that didn't really help. I'm not interested in the actual "set". I'm only interested in the one particular neck size die that will get me the most precision (i.e. least runout). I was hoping you or someone else would answer questions #1 and #2.

I thought the "S" die was just a neck sizing die and one that didn't bump the shoulder....

 

[swifter]

If this is the direction you're headed, you need a concentricity gage, or some type of run-out indicator first, so you can see where and how much run-out you have.
Check a fired case.
check it after sizing.
Again after loading.
Each stage will tell you what you need to change.
I believe the Competition die has the floating sleeve, the 'S' die does not.

If your rifle consistently shoots under 1", try variations on seating depth...
Start about 0.005" off the lands, move back in 0.005" increments, you may be surprised at the difference.

The biggest advantage of the bushing dies is that they get you away from the expander ball, which, IMHO, tweaks more necks cockeyed than any other one thing...
Center hits,
Tom

 

[Steve Smith]

I think I did answer #1, as for #2, yes the S types are the ones with a bushing that floats and sizes the neck portion.

Perhaps a call to Redding would clarify this easier?

 

[Mylhouse]

Thanks, Tom, those are the answers I was looking for that I couldn't gather by just perusing the Redding website.

Thanks for the effort, Steve.

 

[Steve Smith]

Sorry, man, I have been very sick for the last week and just noticed that you'd noted that the Comp die had both a sleeve AND a bushing and you were asking if that was true...blah, bllah, blah. Got it now...duh. Tom is correct, the Comp die has a sleeve similar to the Comp sizing die.

 

[Mylhouse]

That's cool, Steve. I've know I've always been able to count on great information from you here and back on TFL most of the time!

 

[bogie]

Wish I'd seen this before...

Are you neck turning your cases? Not doing that will allow runout with conventional sizing methods. You'll also need several sizing buttons to vary neck tension with the Redding die.

I'd suggest going with the ugly but effective Lee collet die. You can vary neck tension via several mandrels, and the way it squeezes the neck to the mandrel helps control runout.

You may also want to check out www.benchrest.com.

 

[Mylhouse]

Bogie,

Thanks for the tip. I'm not neck turning (yet) because I'm shooting a bone stock Savage 10FP.

I've heard alot of praise about the Lee Collet die. I just scoped one out at the gunshop last week and couldn't get over how cheap and chintzy looking it was....as well as how low-grade the steel looked and the machining.....but maybe beauty is only skin deep.....

 

[bogie]

Well, my 6PPC gets a Harrell bushing die, my 0.070" short .22PPC has a custom-shortened Redding bushing, My 6BR die is a Redding bushing, my .223 is a Lee full length and an RCBS-X, and my .22-250 and .308 (both Savages) get the Lee Collets.

Whatever works.

 

[Mylhouse]

Bogie,

How well does your .308 typically shoot?

Also, did you use the Lee Collet die as is, or did you have to replace/alter the mandrel that came with it?

 

[Khornet]

I think

you really need to neck turn if you're going to bother with neck dies. If your necks are not even in wall thickness, you're gonna have off-center bullets however you squeeze your necks.

I began with Lee Collet dies in .30-'06, and got great accuracy improvement. Unfortunately the dang thing broke, but to be fair I think I was leaning on the lever a little too hard. Lee dies are a great buy.

Then I went with a Wilson bushing neck die from Sinclair. This is a bushing die, but a hand die. You insert your choice of bushing, then drive the brass into the die with a soft mallet, then turn the die around and whack the decap rod, driving out the primer and pushing the brass out of the die. Slow but simple and strong as the dickens. Got even better accuracy with that--brought my 5-shot 100 yd benched groups down to 0.48" from my scoped, bedded sporterized 03A3 with 2-groove barrel. I use a Forster micrometer seating die in a plain old Rock Chucker press, and a Davidson Comparator to set my seating depth to .008 off the lands. 'Course, I sorted new brass by weight, uniformed the primer pockets, and reamed the flash holes in addition to neck turning, and keep the lots of brass separate. It's all about uniformity.

Excessive? Anal? You bet. Guilty as charged.

I don't shoot high power match. This is my deer rifle. I just wanted to see what kind of accuracy I could wring out. But it is really enjoyable to tenderly hand-load super accurate rifle ammo.

 

[Mylhouse]

Thanks, Khornet, that was great post!

I appreciate all the input.....you guys are the best!

 

[bogie]

The .308 will shoot between sixes and sevens. The .22-250 used to shoot in the mid to low threes, but after a slight mishap, I _really_ need to have the barrel recrowned.

If you're not going to neck turn (and you really shouldn't, beyond just a minimal cleanup job, if that much, for a factory chamber), the Lee collet is the way to go. It centers the mouth on the floating mandrel, and it isn't all that particular if there's a little extra brass on one side of the neck. If you're going to use a bushing die, you really should neck turn.

 

[Khornet]

Bogie

I'v got plenty of java
And Chesterfield Kings
But I feel like crying.