Questions about rifle bedding...

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Warners

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Hello all. I have an 80's Harrington and Richardson model 340 rifle in 30-.06 that I bought in unfired condition. It has an Interarms Mark X action in a fairly nice wood stock. After firing only 40 rounds through it, the stock has developed a crack in it behind the action. After doing a little research on this, it appears that this is not an uncommon occurrance with the Mark X actions, and has to do with how they are bedded. My birthday is coming up in November, and I was thinking I'd ask my wife to "buy" me a glass bedding job for the rifle. My questions really are, what is the best way to correct this problem and prevent it from happening in the future? Is getting it glass bedded a way to fix this? Is anyone familiar with how to PROPERLY bed these actions without having the "cracking stock" problem? I really like this rifle a lot and want to take care of it and make it nice. Any suggestions, guys?

Thanks in advance,

Warner
 
I would assume you want to salvage the present cracked gunstock. So that changes things from a standard glass bedding job. I would assume the crack starts at the rear screw hole. You have to judge how bad it is ( I can't tell much from most web pictures,
so don't bother posting one on my account.) I would install cross bolts ( like you see
on the heavy magnums with wood stocks.) Then I would pillar bed the rear screw hole
at the very least. Then proceed with a standard bedding job ( which differs from person to person ). It's typically bedding the action just to the rear of the recoil lug and the recoil lug and around the rear screw hole. Many float the entire barrel, some float from an inch or so in front of the recoil lug on out. Some guns will benefit from upward pressure on the last inch or so of the forearm, if all else fails.
Depending on the crack, how big and how visible will be the determining factor on whether you wish to salvage it. There may be other options on what to do, depending
on the crack. ( Keep in mind if you discard the stock, a new one will have to be bedded as well.)
Materials can be procured from Brownells for sure and probably other sources as well.
Think a web search will turn up many videos on standard stock bedding. I'm sure Brownells will have some info in their Guntech section. They have tech people (on phone ) to answer most questions on procedure and materials as this has always been one of their specialties. Good Luck
 
I do not know what area you are located so I can not help you with finding a smith. You do not have an interest in doing the work leaves you with getting it repaired, cracks happen, I have helped the crack open then applied glass by flow and or injection when dried strength is one thing, appearance could be another. A friend broke out the side of a new Western stock while fitting a Mauser trigger guard, for him, that destroyed the stock, he gave it to me for what ever use I could get out of it, I installed a Mark X action and strengthen the broken stock by glassing the trigger guard to the stock, that fixed? the stock and with the aid of the glassed in recoil lug, when fired, nothing moved.

Repairing is one thing, prevention is another, my friend used a smudge pot to blacken receivers and barreled actions when checking for contact and fit, he was going for 'light weight' when he installed the trigger guard, I did not disappoint him, the stock lives on.

F. Guffey
 
Warners, just in case. The reference to cross bolts to me is the drilling of the stock (left/right) in the wrist (where the crack is located) and inserting a dowel rod and glue. I would clamp/compress the stock when you want it to dry.Bedding the barrel is relatively easy compared to the action. I have Mark X that I inletted into a Fajen stock. Looonng time go. Barrel and action glass bedded. I can't say that I have heard of stocks cracking because of the MX. Normally, the person laying in the action makes a too tight fit in the tip of the tang and does not bed the recoil lug properly. There is a terrific jerk to the action that slams the stock. If the above is true of your stock, that tang has to go someplace. Maybe it is just the action screws being a little too loose.

The bedding process is nothing other than removing places in the stock so that metal does not touch. Of course the action has to touch, so that means other than the tang, the recoil lug and the first two inches of the barrel.

If you are an "instant gratifiction" guy, you might not want to do this:cool:.
It is a little tedious. When you start, make a rule. At the first sign of boredom or irritation, quit. Maybe for the day.

I would start by getting a barrel inletting tool. Using two hands you drag the tool through the channel, shaving wood as you go. They come in different sizes. Since you have a tapered barrel, different size dowel rods wrapped in sandpaper will do good albeit slow.

A dremel tool would work for areas in the action. You know, the tool that makes for job security in the gunsmith world.

Keep in mind you can take an axe :)evil:) to the area to be glassed. The glass will fill in/cover the area. The stock fore end lines and the lines around the action has to be preserved.

You need to read. A lot. Nothing like making your barreled action and your stock one piece, permanently.
 
OYE said:
I would assume you want to salvage the present cracked gunstock. So that changes things from a standard glass bedding job. I would assume the crack starts at the rear screw hole. You have to judge how bad it is ( I can't tell much from most web pictures,
so don't bother posting one on my account.) I would install cross bolts ( like you see
on the heavy magnums with wood stocks.) Then I would pillar bed the rear screw hole
at the very least. Then proceed with a standard bedding job ( which differs from person to person ). It's typically bedding the action just to the rear of the recoil lug and the recoil lug and around the rear screw hole. Many float the entire barrel, some float from an inch or so in front of the recoil lug on out. Some guns will benefit from upward pressure on the last inch or so of the forearm, if all else fails.
Depending on the crack, how big and how visible will be the determining factor on whether you wish to salvage it. There may be other options on what to do, depending
on the crack. ( Keep in mind if you discard the stock, a new one will have to be bedded as well.)
Materials can be procured from Brownells for sure and probably other sources as well.
Think a web search will turn up many videos on standard stock bedding. I'm sure Brownells will have some info in their Guntech section. They have tech people (on phone ) to answer most questions on procedure and materials as this has always been one of their specialties. Good Luck
Click to expand...
I DO like the stock that's on the gun now. It's nothing too fancy, but looks nice and I like it (something about real wood stocks does it for me). I appreciate the response. I will post some (good) photos of the crack tonight when I get home if I have a chance to. I think the photos will help to show where and how large the crack is.

Thanks,

Warner


PS - If there's one thing I do, it's read a lot on topics that I'm interested in....
 
fguffey said:
I do not know what area you are located so I can not help you with finding a smith. You do not have an interest in doing the work leaves you with getting it repaired, cracks happen, I have helped the crack open then applied glass by flow and or injection when dried strength is one thing, appearance could be another. A friend broke out the side of a new Western stock while fitting a Mauser trigger guard, for him, that destroyed the stock, he gave it to me for what ever use I could get out of it, I installed a Mark X action and strengthen the broken stock by glassing the trigger guard to the stock, that fixed? the stock and with the aid of the glassed in recoil lug, when fired, nothing moved.

Repairing is one thing, prevention is another, my friend used a smudge pot to blacken receivers and barreled actions when checking for contact and fit, he was going for 'light weight' when he installed the trigger guard, I did not disappoint him, the stock lives on.

F. Guffey
Click to expand...
It's (in my unprofessional opinion) a really small crack. I'll post some photos tonight. I really appreciate the replies! I think after the experienced guys on here see what I'm talking about, they can give me some good advice. Like I said, it's a small crack but I don't want it getting larger (which is almost certainly WOULD if I just ignored it and kept firing the rifle).

Thanks,

Warner
 
Red Cent said:
Warners, just in case. The reference to cross bolts to me is the drilling of the stock (left/right) in the wrist (where the crack is located) and inserting a dowel rod and glue. I would clamp/compress the stock when you want it to dry.Bedding the barrel is relatively easy compared to the action. I have Mark X that I inletted into a Fajen stock. Looonng time go. Barrel and action glass bedded. I can't say that I have heard of stocks cracking because of the MX. Normally, the person laying in the action makes a too tight fit in the tip of the tang and does not bed the recoil lug properly. There is a terrific jerk to the action that slams the stock. If the above is true of your stock, that tang has to go someplace. Maybe it is just the action screws being a little too loose.

The bedding process is nothing other than removing places in the stock so that metal does not touch. Of course the action has to touch, so that means other than the tang, the recoil lug and the first two inches of the barrel.

If you are an "instant gratifiction" guy, you might not want to do this:cool:.
It is a little tedious. When you start, make a rule. At the first sign of boredom or irritation, quit. Maybe for the day.

I would start by getting a barrel inletting tool. Using two hands you drag the tool through the channel, shaving wood as you go. They come in different sizes. Since you have a tapered barrel, different size dowel rods wrapped in sandpaper will do good albeit slow.

A dremel tool would work for areas in the action. You know, the tool that makes for job security in the gunsmith world.

Keep in mind you can take an axe :)evil:) to the area to be glassed. The glass will fill in/cover the area. The stock fore end lines and the lines around the action has to be preserved.

You need to read. A lot. Nothing like making your barreled action and your stock one piece, permanently.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the great response (and humor). Like I said to the other guys who replied, I will post some photos tonight. I think you are absolutely correct in that the action was not fitted to the stock properly (from the factory - this is a factor new H&R 340 from the mid to late 80's that was never fired prior to me owning the gun, and it's only had 40 rounds through it). Maybe my photos will confirm the suspicions here....


Thanks much,

Warner
 
Red Cent said:
http://hunting.about.com/cs/guns/a/float_bed.htm
Click to expand...

I read this one....really made me wonder what the best way to accurize the rifle IS. It seems there are no hard fast rules when it comes to this...more of a trial and error.


Red Cent said:
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/gunsmithing/bedding_0304/
Click to expand...

This guy has me seriously considering a synthetic stock. I know they can be more accurate as the material is more stable across different temperatures/humidities. I just never cared much for the looks. Maybe it's time to check out some of the laminates that he talks about. Where is a good place to buy synthetic and/or laminate stocks for the Mark X action?

Thanks for the links....

Warner
 
I prefer synthetic stocks also. You can spend however much you want on these.
Bell and Carlson makes them for Mark X and so does Ramline ( go to their sites and check them out). There may be others.
You can compare prices from Brownells and others to start. One thing in your favor is that most 30/06 rifles tend to shoot pretty well. Floating the barrel will often be all you will need to do. Best
 
Wow...I pulled the rifle out of the safe just a minute ago to take some photos, and the crack is much more extensive that I remembered it being after cleaning it and putting it away. so I think I AM looking at a new stock (I think it'll be cheaper, easier, and more accurate). So I will take a look at those ones you mentioned. What are the main differences and advantages between a synthetic stock and a laminate stock? I also noticed these - if anyone has an opinion on these, let me know:

http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/the-440/Mauser-98-Large-Ring/Detail

Thanks,

Warner
 
I forgot about those Rem 798 being the same. You may be able to order that directly
from Remington fairly reasonable also. The prices look reasonable at that link. I'm not a fan of the laminate "look" I guess. I use them on horses and I want something as near to being indestructable as I can find. The laminates are probably fine ( I have no personal experience with them, though.). Best
 
Glass it and be happy

If you use any commercial bedding formula it will stop the stock from splitting. Depending on the size of your stock split I might try Crazy glue first to fill the split then do the bedding job. I have used commercial fingernail filler material to add bulk to the super glue. I think they are micro beads.
I would pillar bed the stock and remove a hefty amount of wood from the rear tang and front recoil bedding area. Remove wood from under the surface level so the bedding compound won't show. Go about 1/8 to 1/4 inch down. The new bedding material will reinforce this area and keep the rear tang from splitting. Cross bolts are not needed with a decent bedding job.
Mask the stock with common painters tape and use a sharp knife to cut off the excess when its partialy cured. Prior to bedding, tape the original depth of the barrel and reciever so you know how far to pull the screws down when setting them in the bedding materiel.
I like a spray on mold release and modeling clay for the trigger area.

This is a good time to free float the barrel if accuracy is questionable.
 
earplug said:
If you use any commercial bedding formula it will stop the stock from splitting. Depending on the size of your stock split I might try Crazy glue first to fill the split then do the bedding job. I have used commercial fingernail filler material to add bulk to the super glue. I think they are micro beads.
I would pillar bed the stock and remove a hefty amount of wood from the rear tang and front recoil bedding area. Remove wood from under the surface level so the bedding compound won't show. Go about 1/8 to 1/4 inch down. The new bedding material will reinforce this area and keep the rear tang from splitting. Cross bolts are not needed with a decent bedding job.
Mask the stock with common painters tape and use a sharp knife to cut off the excess when its partialy cured. Prior to bedding, tape the original depth of the barrel and reciever so you know how far to pull the screws down when setting them in the bedding materiel.
I like a spray on mold release and modeling clay for the trigger area.

This is a good time to free float the barrel if accuracy is questionable.
Click to expand...
Man...that all sounds GREAT. I wish my confidence level in doing all that was as high as what yours sounds like. This is my favorite rifle (and my 15 year old's, too) and I really don't want to mess it up. I took some photos last night and this was probably the best one that I got. You can see that the crack extends pretty far (MUCH further than I remembered when I put it back in the safe!).

Warner

rifle%20crack sm.jpg
 
OYE said:
I would forget it. It's a bad crack.
Click to expand...
That's what I figured. Time to make a decision on what I want. I'm thinking synthetic at this point. Those two you mentioned in your original post both look decent.

Thanks for your help and advice,

Warner
 
I do not believe the barreled receiver was installed in that stock, from the rear the fit is just not there. To salvage (for practice) what is left remove the receiver, spread the stock to open the split and fill with your choice of bonding material. To repair a crack that requires a thin bonding material reduce the hardener to 10%, if the crack goes through the stock use a vacuum on the bottom, reducing the hardener increases the set-up time to as long as 24 hours meaning the repair will have to be done in stages.

I have never seen strength of material listed on Brownells glass kits, so I do not use it, other glass kits not advertised for stock repair and bedding is listed as 3,000 + so I use the highest (known) listing available.

http://www.fastenal.com/web/home.ex Fastenal has a material that bonds bolts in concrete, same stuff at Lowes and Home Depot for less. Why would this material be an option? Practice, and it has a strength listing, and it would make a good material for making moulds and that is what bedding is all about. More material for less money.



F. Guffey
 
It appears that this rifle is badly bedded. From the looks of the crack the recoil is being handled by the tang instead of the recoil lug, which turns the tang into a splitting wedge every time the rifle is fired.

DO NOT fire the gun any more until the stock is repaired and it is bedded properly. You should relieve the stock for a few thousandths of an inch around the tang and bed it so that the rear of the recoil lug rests firmly against a nice flat wall of bedding material.
 
"Repairing is one thing, prevention is another, my friend used a smudge pot to blacken receivers and barreled actions when checking for contact and fit"

Purchasing a new stock then installing the receiver in the new stock could give you the same results as you are experiencing now, contact must be at the recoil lug and the trigger guard, the trigger guard thing only work if the screws are secured to the receiver. The problem with fitting the receiver to the stock is the same or similar for most when checking head space, the bolt closes, it gets dark and the light goes out, when the receiver is placed into the stock, the light goes out, it gets dark, I believe in practice and making a mold of the receiver in the stock and transferring smudge from the receiver to the stock.

I have 5 synthetic stock for Mausers, as soon as I determine where contact is made I am going to use one, my opinion, the manufacturer went out of their way to make it easy to carry, seems they are worried about the shooter working up a sweat getting to the range.

I am trying to increase contact between the stock and receiver on the synthetic types, I am thinking about a contrasting color in the bedding material, an opinion, gaps, lots of gaps, it fits only where it touches.

F. Guffey
 
Warners,if you do replace the stock,I may be interested in the old one(after a complete set of pictures). I have repaired a lot of damaged stocks and returned them to a productive life. The Mark X,Remington 798,Charles Daly(all Zastava makes) and Mauser 98 actions are almost identical as far as stock fit goes.
 
fguffey said:
"Repairing is one thing, prevention is another, my friend used a smudge pot to blacken receivers and barreled actions when checking for contact and fit"

Purchasing a new stock then installing the receiver in the new stock could give you the same results as you are experiencing now, contact must be at the recoil lug and the trigger guard, the trigger guard thing only work if the screws are secured to the receiver. The problem with fitting the receiver to the stock is the same or similar for most when checking head space, the bolt closes, it gets dark and the light goes out, when the receiver is placed into the stock, the light goes out, it gets dark, I believe in practice and making a mold of the receiver in the stock and transferring smudge from the receiver to the stock.

I have 5 synthetic stock for Mausers, as soon as I determine where contact is made I am going to use one, my opinion, the manufacturer went out of their way to make it easy to carry, seems they are worried about the shooter working up a sweat getting to the range.

I am trying to increase contact between the stock and receiver on the synthetic types, I am thinking about a contrasting color in the bedding material, an opinion, gaps, lots of gaps, it fits only where it touches.

F. Guffey
Click to expand...
You don't think the laminate stocks listed about would fit well enough to drop the barreled receiver in an go? I've love to hand fit everything correctly like you mention...my problem is I'm a total noob and don't always understand the advice that I'm given because I haven't DONE any of this stuff before. Would it make sense for me to have an experienced person (gunsmith) install and properly bed the barreled receiver into whichever stock I buy? I only want to do this ONCE and have it done right so I don't have to wonder or worry about it anymore.....

Thanks to everyone for their helpful suggestions,

Warner


PS - Any opinions on either of the laminated stocks I linked to above? Seems like a lot of purists really dislike laminated stocks in general, and particularly the thumbhole ones...
 
The only laminate stock I have is a Remington 798 pull off that I fitted to a Colombian Mauser sporter that I built. It fits and looks great IMHO. I glass bed all of my Mauser actions except for those in synthetic stocks. BTW,you can glassbed the barrel channel and still free-float your barrel by putting tape on the barrel when bedding just use plenty of release agent.
 
jimmyraythomason said:
Warners,if you do replace the stock,I may be interested in the old one(after a complete set of pictures). I have repaired a lot of damaged stocks and returned them to a productive life. The Mark X,Remington 798,Charles Daly(all Zastava makes) and Mauser 98 actions are almost identical as far as stock fit goes.
Click to expand...
Other than that crack (which, like I said originally, happened after only 40 rounds - that's all that's been through the gun), the stock is in like new condition. If I get the new stock and you are interested, I'll send you some photos of the existing stock. I REALLY like the looks of it. Here's a photo of the entire rifle, where you can see what the stock looks like:

http://www.glassclubs.com/HR_340.jpg

Warner
 
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