Quick question regarding powder charges

[Joseph Dawson]

So I'm using a Lee Pro Auto disk with an adjustable charge bar. I'm loading .357 and .38 special. I'm using bullseye. Now, when I drop my charge and weigh it, the charge seems to be accurate but sometimes it's .1 grain out give or take. So if I set it to drop 3.3 grains of bullseye it sometimes drops 3.2 or 3.4. Is this normal?

Edit: Also I've seen people posting saying I shouldn't use bullseye for .357 loads. For my .357 loads I'm using 4.3 grains of bullseye. Would it be ok to go up to 4.6-4.8 or should I get a better powder like 2400? Bullets are 158gr SWC.

Edit 2: Is it normal for the lee Auto disk to stick a bit when you try and pull it out the expander die.

 

[splattergun]

It's normal for about any powder measure to vary +- .1 gn. , A very consistent, smooth process helps to smooth that out.

 

[Walkalong]

Is this normal?

+/- .1 grains isn't bad. Fairly common for many powders.

Some powders meter better, some worse. One reason to use great metering powders when dealing with small charges, and especially for small charges in small cases, and doubly if you add in operating at high pressure.

Bullseye can meter mostly under +/- .1 grain most of the time, especially in a good measure with good technique.

For my .357 loads I'm using 4.3 grains of bullseye. Would it be ok to go up to 4.6-4.8 or should I get a better powder like 2400?

Powders like HS-6, BE-86 WSF etc would be better for midrange loads in .357 Mag than 2400 will. 2400 downloads better than say H-110, but is still intended for near max/max loads.

Bullseye works pretty well for midrange .357 though.

After trying a great many powders in midrange .357 Mag loads with various 158 gr bullets over the years, BE-86 is about the best I have tried for a number of reasons.

I think it was @tightgroup tiger that I stole the BE-86 load from, but I can't find the link to his post about it that I bookmarked.

Lost its formatting copying and pasting, but here it is.

Load # 222 ***

Date : 11-16 Temp : 48 Degrees 31% RH Conditions :
Overcast but Sunny
Case : Hornady Range Brass Crimp : Light Taper Seater Setting(s) : .360 Redding Seater
Trimmed : 1.247/50 Short FTX Brass Primer : WSP Cartridge OAL : 1.560+ Seated to cannelure
Powder : BE-86 1 Lb Jug from Gun Show Weight : 7.3 Grs Titegroup Tiger's Load Bushing / Setting : 30.0 on 10X by R # 2
Bullet : X-Treme Weight : 158 Grs. Type / Dia. / OAL : Pltd SWC /.358 / .660

Comments : Used with .020 ring under Redding Crimp die
Very accurate. Cases 97% clean. Small sample but the PF vs 6 shots Powder Back Powder Forward Powder Level
PB numbers looked great. Minus 56 is very good. Anything
under 100 is good. May tweak and try 7.4 or 7.5, but this is
nice. Load some more!

4" 586-3
HI 1074
LO 1040
AVG 1057
ES 34
SD 11

 

[.308 Norma]

It's normal for about any powder measure to vary +- .1 gn. , A very consistent, smooth process helps to smooth that out.

What splattergun said.

Would it be ok to go up to 4.6-4.8 or should I get a better powder like 2400?

Whoa, hold up there Joseph.
You didn't say what weight and type of bullets you're using. And what does it say in your loading manual? Nobody here can tell you it's safe to "go up" to 4.8grs of Bullseye in your .357 loads because nobody here is reading your loading manual, nobody here knows what bullets you're using, and nobody here has your gun...all of those things matter.
Besides that, 2400 powder is not necessarily a "better" powder than Bullseye. It depends on what you're looking for. I personally prefer 2400 over almost any other powder for powerful magnum handgun loads, Unique for mid-range loads, and Bullseye for light loads. But that's me. I'll bet there's quite a number of folks here that swear by 296 for powerful handgun loads, Universal for mid-range loads, and TiteGroup for light loads. And they'd be right too.

 

[fxvr5]

So I'm using a Lee Pro Auto disk with an adjustable charge bar. I'm loading .357 and .38 special. I'm using bullseye. Now, when I drop my charge and weigh it, the charge seems to be accurate but sometimes it's .1 grain out give or take. So if I set it to drop 3.3 grains of bullseye it sometimes drops 3.2 or 3.4. Is this normal?

Perfectly normal.

 

[LiveLife]

Lee Pro Auto disk with an adjustable charge bar ... using bullseye.

So if I set it to drop 3.3 grains of bullseye it sometimes drops 3.2 or 3.4. Is this normal?

Yes. I found Adjustable Charge Bar works better with larger powder charges.

But Bullseye is one of better metering powders due to small flake size and I can meter Bullseye with .1 gr variance with Pro Auto Disk instead of .2 gr you are getting with Adjustable Charge Bar.

For dropping smaller charges with Pro Auto Disk, I prefer to use this $1 modification that will consistently drop Bullseye down to 1.5 gr - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/working-diy-micro-auto-disk.741988/

 

[LiveLife]

Is it normal for the lee Auto disk to stick a bit when you try and pull it out the expander die.

To make sure it's the Pro Auto Disk sticking, remove the expander die and operate the Pro Auto Disk. If there is no sticking, it's the expander die that's sticking.

If Pro Auto Disk is not sliding smoothly, you may have tightened the thumb screws too tight and/or bottom of wiper needs lubrication (Before lubricating, inspect the wiper surface for damage). I lubricate the bottom of wiper with fine graphite powder. You can also shave No 2 pencil lead into fine powder on paper and rub the wiper until well coated.

Properly lubricated wiper should slide smoothly on top of disks.

 

[Average Joe]

Normal for every powder measure... besides, you will never notice the difference...

 

[Joseph Dawson]

What splattergun said.

Whoa, hold up there Joseph.
You didn't say what weight and type of bullets you're using. And what does it say in your loading manual? Nobody here can tell you it's safe to "go up" to 4.8grs of Bullseye in your .357 loads because nobody here is reading your loading manual, nobody here knows what bullets you're using, and nobody here has your gun...all of those things matter.
Besides that, 2400 powder is not necessarily a "better" powder than Bullseye. It depends on what you're looking for. I personally prefer 2400 over almost any other powder for powerful magnum handgun loads, Unique for mid-range loads, and Bullseye for light loads. But that's me. I'll bet there's quite a number of folks here that swear by 296 for powerful handgun loads, Universal for mid-range loads, and TiteGroup for light loads. And they'd be right too.

Sorry I completely forgot to include that. Bullets are 158gr Lead Hardcast SWC. I have loaded them at 4.3gr and they were good. I read that if you go to near max load with bullseye for 357 magnum rounds (4.6-4.8gr) you can have overpressure issues and it gets dangerous, I'm best using a slower burning powder. In my lee manual, it says start grain is 4.1 and never exceed is 4.8. I'll be shooting it through a rifle, Marlin 1894 CSBL 16.5'' barrel

 

[.308 Norma]

Sorry I completely forgot to include that. Bullets are 158gr Lead Hardcast SWC. I have loaded them at 4.3gr and they were good. I read that if you go to near max load with bullseye for 357 magnum rounds (4.6-4.8gr) you can have overpressure issues and it gets dangerous, I'm best using a slower burning powder. In my lee manual, it says start grain is 4.1 and never exceed is 4.8. I'll be shooting it through a rifle, Marlin 1894 CSBL 16.5'' barrel

Oh, okay. Thanks!
Yeah, that's true. But you can have overpressure issues when you get up towards max with any powder, not just Bullseye. Nevertheless, I think you'll like 2400 better than Bullseye for full power, 357 Magnum loads. I suspect you'll find 2400 is a lot more consistent (if that makes any sense) at that level of power.
As I indicated before, for 38 Specials and .357 Magnums (and 41 Magnums and 44 Magnums as well) I could get by with 3 powders - Bullseye, Unique and 2400. But there are others here that have other choices. And they're right too, unless they don't like Unique for the best "all-around" handgun powder...then they're wrong!
Just kidding.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like said and in my opinion, Bullseye is way too fast a powder for full power .357 Magnum ammo. Pressures will peak well before the velocities reach what is expected from that cartridge.

If you are looking for full power .357 Magnum ammo try:
2400, Power Pro 300-MP, AA#9, Enforcer, H110/W296, 4227 and probably a few I missed.

If mid-range loads are what you are looking for look at powders lije:
BE-86, Power Pistol, Unique, AA#5, True Blue, HS-6, Universal, W572 and the like.

 

[Joseph Dawson]

Thanks, I appreciate it I think I'll stick at 4.3 gr bullseye for my .357 loads and if I want to go any higher I'll get 2400. I can't find any load data for 158gr lead bullet for 2400, any ideas where to look? I'm getting a Lyman 50th edition manual tomorrow, I already have the lee one but was told Lyman do better cast data, should that have 2400 data for that bullet?

 

[ericuda]

Joseph sorry but are you kidding. 2400 is a very good powder used by a lot for 357 cast 158 boolits. Data is there.

 

[.308 Norma]

was told Lyman do better cast data, should that have 2400 data for that bullet?

Yeah, probably. Don't know about the Lyman 50th edition manual, but my old, (1973) Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook lists 10.0 grs to 15.0 grs of 2400 behind a 158 gr (w/Gas Check) cast SWC. My newer, 4th edition, Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook lists 12.2 grs to 13.5 grs of 2400 behind a plain based, 158 gr cast SWC.

 

[Joseph Dawson]

Joseph sorry but are you kidding. 2400 is a very good powder used by a lot for 357 cast 158 boolits. Data is there.

No, I have the lee 2nd edition manual and there's no data on 2400 in that manual. I haven't looked too much at other other magnum calibers in the book but for .357, 158gr 2400 data is not in it.

 

[Joseph Dawson]

One more thing to ask as well. What's the best way to clean out a powder dispenser to switch powders? I was told mixing powders is a massive no no.

 

[bullseye308]

I have been shooting 5.0gr of Bullseye with a Lee 158 SWC for years out of a Ruger GP-100. It’s a nice mid load that shoots very well.

 

[Walkalong]

I can't find any load data for 158gr lead bullet for 2400, any ideas where to look?

14.0 or 14.5 Grs 2400 under a lead or coated lead 158 Gr SWC will work very well for you. Some like 14.0, some like 14.5. Standard primer.

 

[Walkalong]

One more thing to ask as well. What's the best way to clean out a powder dispenser to switch powders? I was told mixing powders is a massive no no.

Always clean the measure out well when changing powders. And I never leave powder sitting in the measure, even if i will be using it again soon. Some people leave powder in measures for days. Not me.

Same powder, different lot? Some just mix them, some check to see if the new lot is a bit denser or a bit less dense before doing so.

 

[Joseph Dawson]

Always clean the measure out well when changing powders. And I never leave powder sitting in the measure, even if i will be using it again soon. Some people leave powder in measures for days. Not me.

Same powder, different lot? Some just mix them, some check to see if the new lot is a bit denser or a bit less dense before doing so.

What's the best way to clean the measure out?

 

[jmorris]

If you are looking to get the most out of your 357 mag, bullseye isn’t the powder for the job, need a slower powder.

I don’t “clean” measure as much as just empty them. One powder on the bench at a time, return to original container. If there are no more flake in there, your done.

My RCBS charge masters have a distinct dislike for gun powders as they can ruin them so I hit them with a blast of compressed air, just to make sure.

 

[Jim Watson]

At the risk of contributing to the delinquency of a reloader, I will comment.
The Lee book is a secondary source, Lee don't test loads, they copy them.
If you see a start of 4.3 gr Bullseye and a Maximum of 4.8 gr Bullseye for a 158 gr lead .357, that is likely copied from Speer's swaged bullet table which says: "The above loads are not at maximum pressure but are held to 1000 fps to reduce barrel leading."
Lyman shows considerably heavier loads for hard cast bullets.

HOWEVER: The only gun ever blown up on our old range was a .357 with top loads of Bullseye, almost surely double charged.
So something medium to slow burning is a safer choice, can't double charge 14 gr 2400.
BUT: That is going to give you a lot higher velocity in a carbine, near 1700 fps vs not quite 1300 fps in revolver. 2400 doesn't download worth a hoot.

Consider what you want and need out of the gun and ammo.

 

[Walkalong]

What's the best way to clean the measure out?

Some powders will pour out (I just pop it off the press, turn it over, and pour it in the container.), and then easily dispense the last little bit just working the measure. Think N-310, AA #2, etc.

Some powders cling to the inside and I have to pop the plastic reservoir off and use a small paintbrush, toothbrush etc, maybe even air pressure to blow out the metering device. I try to stay away from powders like that.

 

[Joseph Dawson]

At the risk of contributing to the delinquency of a reloader, I will comment.
The Lee book is a secondary source, Lee don't test loads, they copy them.
If you see a start of 4.3 gr Bullseye and a Maximum of 4.8 gr Bullseye for a 158 gr lead .357, that is likely copied from Speer's swaged bullet table which says: "The above loads are not at maximum pressure but are held to 1000 fps to reduce barrel leading."
Lyman shows considerably heavier loads for hard cast bullets.

HOWEVER: The only gun ever blown up on our old range was a .357 with top loads of Bullseye, almost surely double charged.
So something medium to slow burning is a safer choice, can't double charge 14 gr 2400.
BUT: That is going to give you a lot higher velocity in a carbine, near 1700 fps vs not quite 1300 fps in revolver. 2400 doesn't download worth a hoot.

Consider what you want and need out of the gun and ammo.

I picked up a 50th edition Lyman manual today and it looks good. Now, I may sound extremely stupid when I ask this but I'm brand new and want to get everything right. I have 158gr Hardcast bullets for .357 and I looked for the data in the Lyman manual and the closest they had was 155gr lead bullets. Am I ok to go off that data when using a 158gr bullet?

 

[Walkalong]

No, you cannot use data for a lighter bullet for a heavier one, the heavier bullet with more bearing surface will give more pressure.

Check out charge differences for 125 vs 158 in .357 data comparing the same powder, assuming same type bullets, you will see the charges are always lower for the heavier bullet.