QuickLoad anyone? Super slow powders for 9mm carbine loads

[italy176]

I've been reloading for 9mm pistol (4.5") and 9mm carbine (16.5"). To date the highest performing powders have been the slower burning Blue Dot (124gr FMJ) and VV 3N38 (147gr XTP). Both give solid pistol performance and big fps gain in the carbine. I'd like to try some slower powders like Accurate No. 9 or H110. Has anyone tried either?

I'm curious what data (vel, psi, & etc.) QuickLoad would generate for:
case = 9mm Luger
bullet = 147 gr XTP
C.O.A.L. = 1.150"
primer = CCI small pistol
Barrel lengths = 4.5" and 16.5"

powder = Accurate No. 9 @ 8.1gr or 8.7gr
and
powder = H110 @ 8.7gr
vs.
"Old Betsy"
powder = VV 3N38 @ 6.9gr


If you don't have QL please share your experiences. If you have QL please PM me the data. I hope to hear from you all. Thanks!

Oh yeah, this is just a thought experiment and I understand any associated risks inherent in working up custom loads.

 

[gamestalker]

I don't load for carbine so I don't know what variables you encounter between them. However, I load exclusively with slower burning powders for everything I load, and have arrived at a couple of powders for 9mm and .40 S&W that produce real good accuracy and stout velocities. Longshot has worked excellent for a long time, and also produces well managed, yet normal higher working pressures of course, but well within SAMMI recomended data.
I have recently started working with HS6 because the data indicates it will improve my velocities and provide good dense powder charges, as well supports other typical characteristics consistent with slow burning powders.
A good example of Longshots' slow burning characteristics was indicated by a rare mistake I made recently as follows. I was loading a 147 gr. XTP with a near max powder charge of Longshot. FYI, I weight every powder charge, for every single case, since I began hand loading nearly 30 yrs. ago. Anyway, My powder charge for the 147 gr. XTP ended up 1.1 grains above maximum listed data. Since I lable every batch of loads I produce, I realized my mistake, but not before shooting 30 rounds through my chronograph. They had an average MV of 1050 ish fps and didn't produce any signs of excessive pressures.
I haven't really accumilated much experience with HS6 as yet. But the 30 or so rounds I've tested so far have performed excellentwith regard to accuracy with amazing velocity using the 115 gr. Gold Dot.
But to address your question about H110 or 296 as possible powders I will say it like it is. To my knowledge which is according to SAMMI data, 296 and H110 are not feasable options for 9mm, .40 S&W, or 45 ACP and probably like wise, regarding most, if not all other common rimless auto loading handgun cartridges. H110 and 296 are designed only for large magnum type cartridges such as .357 mag, 44 mag., 454 casull, 500 S&W magnum, and other simular applications. Stepping down in application just a little like 38 special or 44 special is still not a safe option. It has been warned by SAMMI recomendation that using these slow burning powders for something other than recomended cartrdiges, will produce unpredictable and excessively high pressures. One other condition of using these powders that I thought I would ad is use magnum primers with them or the high pressure effects of a reduced charge can result which is imposed by incomplete powder burns.
I hope this helped you is some manner and would never provide advice based solely on my personal experience or opinion, but instead based exclusively on SAMMI recomendations. With that said, the error I made with the Longshot powder charge on those 9mms is not a recomended powder charge, as it exceeds listed SAMMI data.

 

[RidgwayCO]

According to my calculations, Accurate #7 would be a better bet than Accurate #9 for what you want. H110 would be too slow (the case is filled and compressed well before higher velocities result). QuickLOAD predicts notably higher velocities with pistol cartridges in rifle length barrels (16"+), but those don't usually translate into actual velocities in real guns (at least in my experience with the .44 Special).

 

[918v]

didn't produce any signs of excessive pressures.

What signs did you look for?

 

[italy176]

I've thought about Longshot but the VV reloading guide and other power burn rate charts list it is as fasterthan Blue Dot or VV 3N38. No. 7 is slower than BD/3N38 so I may just give that a try.
Unfortunately, Accurate load data shows poor performance for 124gr/147gr data - especially when compared to BD/3N38. For some reasone Accurate lists a deeper seated bulleted (shorter OAL). Maybe the powder needs more pressure?
Perhaps QL could point out a hotter load (under 38kpsi) w/a longer OAL. Maybe I should just take the $150 plunge and order QL...

 

[rcmodel]

Maybe I should just take the $150 plunge and order QL...

Or a gun chambered for a bigger cartridge case!

rc

 

[RidgwayCO]

Maybe I should just take the $150 plunge and order QL...

Go ahead... you can thank me later. Or in the immortal words of Capt. James T. Kirk in the recent Star Trek movie... "Do It! Do It! Do It!"

 

[italy176]

RC:
Get a gun with more case capacity? That would mean another caliber to obsess over and optimize. Actually, that would be a lot of fun. However, I don't think the wife would be cool w/me spending the $$$.


Ridgway:
I think I will drop the $ for QL. But, until then I'm going to have just spend the $19 for the Accurate No. 7.
Heaven forbid that I actually have to "work up" and shoot some loads.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Quickload is a great program for exactly what you want to do. I use it a lot to just "gut check" things and design loads. Work up careflly though.