trickyasafox
Member
very interesting. good to see a nice 9mm carbine specific load. im pretty interested for the 124gr data too 
Loading 9mm for 995 Carbine with slow powder results in impressive performance boost.
- Thread starter Crosshair
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Crosshair
Member
Thanks for putting the pressure on me guys. I'll probably start a new thread to post the 124 Grain data, but I will be sure to post a link to it in this thread. Good to see that there is interest from others on this subject.
I'll probably start a new thread to post the 124 Grain data, but I will be sure to post a link to it in this thread. Good to see that there is interest from others on this subject.Crosshair
Member
OK, I don't have the Data compiled and I don't know when I will have time to do it. Might be tomorrow, might be next week. Here is the summary of what happened today at the range.
Average for the shots was about 1500 FPS with the 124 grain bullet.
Bolt is moving back too soon and allowing powder gas to escape. Spent casings where black with burned powder and there was visible flame coming from the ejection port. I did not have a case failure, but it is seems to me that heavier bullets with slower powder simply take too long to exit the barrel and relieve pressure before the case has started to be extracted. This allows gas to escape around the casing and is simply unsafe IMHO. The cases are really trashed up. I will try and get a photo online when I post the compiled data. It seems that I will be stuck using lighter bullets or I will have to increase the mass of the bolt to prevent early extraction. Accuracy was good with 25 yard shots being about 3" standing unsupported. I do need to get and shoot some factory 124 grain ammo for comparison.
Hope this quenches your thirst for info until I get everything put together.
Average for the shots was about 1500 FPS with the 124 grain bullet.
Bolt is moving back too soon and allowing powder gas to escape. Spent casings where black with burned powder and there was visible flame coming from the ejection port. I did not have a case failure, but it is seems to me that heavier bullets with slower powder simply take too long to exit the barrel and relieve pressure before the case has started to be extracted. This allows gas to escape around the casing and is simply unsafe IMHO. The cases are really trashed up. I will try and get a photo online when I post the compiled data. It seems that I will be stuck using lighter bullets or I will have to increase the mass of the bolt to prevent early extraction. Accuracy was good with 25 yard shots being about 3" standing unsupported. I do need to get and shoot some factory 124 grain ammo for comparison.
Hope this quenches your thirst for info until I get everything put together.
Crosshair
Member
The 124 Grain Winchester HP over 8 Grains of Blue Dot powder.
After months of searching, I finally found some 9mm carbine data!! I was thinking the same thing about using a slower burning powder to take advantage of the longer barrel. Following this post finally got me to register with THR instead of just lurking.
Inspired by Crosshair I loaded 20 rounds of test ammo at the following:
124 gr Remington JHP
8.2 gr BlueDot
Mixed Headstamp
This is the max load listed from my Lee Reloading Manual for 125 jacketed 9mm. I went and shot them today in my 16" Uzi Carbine. I do not have a chrono but none of the cases showed any sign of over pressure. I do not know how much diffrence there is between an Uzi bolt and a HiPoint bolt, but I did not get any excess flash and the cases were not dirty. I was told that the Uzi likes really hot loads, so I am thinking of increaseing this slowly.
I am interested to findout about the chronoy results from crosshairs new loads.
USE THESE LOADS AT YOUR OWN RISK
Inspired by Crosshair I loaded 20 rounds of test ammo at the following:
124 gr Remington JHP
8.2 gr BlueDot
Mixed Headstamp
This is the max load listed from my Lee Reloading Manual for 125 jacketed 9mm. I went and shot them today in my 16" Uzi Carbine. I do not have a chrono but none of the cases showed any sign of over pressure. I do not know how much diffrence there is between an Uzi bolt and a HiPoint bolt, but I did not get any excess flash and the cases were not dirty. I was told that the Uzi likes really hot loads, so I am thinking of increaseing this slowly.
I am interested to findout about the chronoy results from crosshairs new loads.
USE THESE LOADS AT YOUR OWN RISK
Crosshair
Member
Woa, I completly forgot about this. I have been waiting for my order of 1000 9mm bullets to some in. The Data is still on my digital camera. I'll have to go compile it.
Bump
Let's keep this going.
I just got done loading 2500, 147 grain 9mm rounds using 5.7 grains of Power Pistol. According to the Alliant website, this load should give me 1095 fps out of a 4" barreled handgun. On their website, this is the highest velocity listed using that bullet and their powders. Blue Dot comes close and is the second fastest powder they list. Since Blue Dot is a slower burning powder, you have to wonder if it would perform better out of a carbine length barrel.
I am going to have to get off my butt and check this out. I have a Colt 9mm carbine with a 16" barrel, a 11.5" barrel, and a suppressed upper which won't be much use to us because it bleeds off gas to make any 9mm round subsonic ( http://www.lrmfirearms.com/pages/863787/index.htm ). I think I even have some Blue Dot powder to try.
Let's keep this going.
I just got done loading 2500, 147 grain 9mm rounds using 5.7 grains of Power Pistol. According to the Alliant website, this load should give me 1095 fps out of a 4" barreled handgun. On their website, this is the highest velocity listed using that bullet and their powders. Blue Dot comes close and is the second fastest powder they list. Since Blue Dot is a slower burning powder, you have to wonder if it would perform better out of a carbine length barrel.
I am going to have to get off my butt and check this out. I have a Colt 9mm carbine with a 16" barrel, a 11.5" barrel, and a suppressed upper which won't be much use to us because it bleeds off gas to make any 9mm round subsonic ( http://www.lrmfirearms.com/pages/863787/index.htm ). I think I even have some Blue Dot powder to try.
Crosshair
Member
I have been busy with work and school lately. (I have been offered alot of overtime hours because of the store remodel. Making nice $$$.) I don't have much of anything for data in front of me, but from continued testing I have found that Blue Dot powder is in the "Sweet spot" of burning ranges. I have tried different powders, but for some reason Blue Dot is the only one that seems to work well. Also, 124 grain bullets do not see much of a gain, it seems to work the best with 115 grain bullets. My theory is that the blowback action limits the amount of time that the powder has to push the bullet. Cases from my 124 grain tests where often black on the outside, meaning that much of the powder was being wasted.
The best combination so far is about 8.1 grains of Blue Dot under a 115 grain bullet loaded to about 1.150" OAL. This gives about 1650-1700 fps when lit by a Federal small pistol primer.
I have not been to the range for almost two months, so I have been going through "shooters withdrawl". But I need to work overtime since it is not always available. (Also means more $$$ for gun stuff. ) Though I REALLY want to try out my CZ-52. (Darn thing was on backorder since August of last year.)
The best combination so far is about 8.1 grains of Blue Dot under a 115 grain bullet loaded to about 1.150" OAL. This gives about 1650-1700 fps when lit by a Federal small pistol primer.
I have not been to the range for almost two months, so I have been going through "shooters withdrawl". But I need to work overtime since it is not always available. (Also means more $$$ for gun stuff.
) Though I REALLY want to try out my CZ-52. (Darn thing was on backorder since August of last year.)
I have Marlin camp 45 I installed a 18 # recoil spring and mostly load 7.7 gr of unique with a 185 jhp , I've loaded some (25rnds of each) 230gr gold dot with 8.6, 8.9 grns of blue dot both loads shot well . Sorry I don't have a chrony yet. I tried AA#7 but the loads did not cycle the action well, I had quite a few jams , this was with the stock 11# spring .
yet. I tried AA#7 but the loads did not cycle the action well, I had quite a few jams , this was with the stock 11# spring .Ok, here are the numbers for one Power Pistol load.
The load is 5.7 grains which is the load listed on their website, coupled with a 147 grain Remington FMJ round nose bullet. I was trying to come up with the most effective load to be used in a carbine, which to me means the heaviest bullet driven at the highest velocity. I was hoping the load would be subsonic since I will be using the load with a couple suppressors, but as you can see, the load is supersonic in pretty much everything. Oh well.
Kel-Tec P11, 3.1" barrel: 1017 fps. ave.
Glock 34, aftermarket Bar-Sto Barrel approx. 6 1/4", 1159 fps ave.
Hi Point 995 carbine, 1248 fps ave.
So, we have an increase of 89 fps using the carbine compared with the Glock, and we have an increase of 231 fps using the carbine over the Kel-Tec. The difference between the Kel-Tec and the Glock is 142 fps giving us about 47.3 fps per inch of barrel. I don't know the barrel length of the carbine so I can't do the calculations for it.
So now I guess I need to try some experiments with 115 grain bullets and compare your results with my results using both Blue Dot and Power Pistol.
Again, checking the Alliant website, they show Power Pistol producing higher 9mm velocity than any other powder they make including Blue Dot in handgun barrel lengths.
Their load using Power Pistol gives them 1280 fps using a 115 grain bullet. Their max load using Blue Dot is 8.0 grains which gave them 1190 fps. Your chrono results using 8.0 grains of Blue Dot out of the carbine gave you and average of 1456 fps. That's a difference of 266 fps.
That is certainly reasonable. There is no reason to believe your chrono results wern't accurate.
One thing that is kind of interesting: Using my carbine, I can shoot a 147 grain bullet faster than a handgun shooting a 115 grain bullet and a max load of Blue Dot.
The load is 5.7 grains which is the load listed on their website, coupled with a 147 grain Remington FMJ round nose bullet. I was trying to come up with the most effective load to be used in a carbine, which to me means the heaviest bullet driven at the highest velocity. I was hoping the load would be subsonic since I will be using the load with a couple suppressors, but as you can see, the load is supersonic in pretty much everything. Oh well.
Kel-Tec P11, 3.1" barrel: 1017 fps. ave.
Glock 34, aftermarket Bar-Sto Barrel approx. 6 1/4", 1159 fps ave.
Hi Point 995 carbine, 1248 fps ave.
So, we have an increase of 89 fps using the carbine compared with the Glock, and we have an increase of 231 fps using the carbine over the Kel-Tec. The difference between the Kel-Tec and the Glock is 142 fps giving us about 47.3 fps per inch of barrel. I don't know the barrel length of the carbine so I can't do the calculations for it.
So now I guess I need to try some experiments with 115 grain bullets and compare your results with my results using both Blue Dot and Power Pistol.
Again, checking the Alliant website, they show Power Pistol producing higher 9mm velocity than any other powder they make including Blue Dot in handgun barrel lengths.
Their load using Power Pistol gives them 1280 fps using a 115 grain bullet. Their max load using Blue Dot is 8.0 grains which gave them 1190 fps. Your chrono results using 8.0 grains of Blue Dot out of the carbine gave you and average of 1456 fps. That's a difference of 266 fps.
That is certainly reasonable. There is no reason to believe your chrono results wern't accurate.
One thing that is kind of interesting: Using my carbine, I can shoot a 147 grain bullet faster than a handgun shooting a 115 grain bullet and a max load of Blue Dot.
Crosshair
Member
I really need to get more data using the Federal Primers. The first set of data was with CCI primers and I was having ignition problems with them in my 995. So while I like to use them as a starting point, those numbers are not ideal since I do not know how the issue of ignition affected the velocity. Velocity with Federal Primers is alot more consistant than with the CCI primers. (Though I lost the notes that I had writen the numbers on so I am going from memory. )
)
Crosshair
Member
I have hard data.
OK, I went out to the range today and got more data and have a final load that gives both consistant performance and higher velocity. a 115 grain bullet over 8.1 grains of Blue Dot powder and lit by a Federal small pistol primer. (I wish I could have used 8.5 grains of Blue Dot, but could never get consistant velocity with that much powder. This load is the best trade off IMHO between higher velocity and constant velocity.) All loaded to a 1.150" OAL. Here is the velocity for 20 rounds in FPS.
First mag
1492
1554
1557
1552
1550
1540
1561
1528
1553
1568
Second mag
1492
1597
1493
1535
1526
1540
1492
1571
1517
1575
For some reason the fist round in the mag seems to be slower. Mabee it is how it seats in the chamber when I cycle the action to load the weapon.
A note I have to make is that while the gun happily ate these rounds with no problem, the recoil was PAINFULL. I don't know how to explain it. I shoot my M1 Garand with no recoil pad but the 995 with these loads leaves me sore. Probably has to do with how sharp the recoil is. I am probably going to install a recoil pad on my 995. Since energy increases with the square of velocity These rounds are much more powerfull than your standard 9mm ammo. I use the "lazy man power factor" to figure this out. Take the velocity divided by 100. Then square it and multiply it with the bullet weight in grains.
Regular ammo, 115 grains at about 1200 FPS: 12x12x115 = 16560 LMPF
My 995 handloads, 115 grains at about 1550 FPS: 15.5x15.5x115 = 27628.75 LMPF
We can then find how much more powerfull these handloads are compared to standard 9mm.
(27628.75/16560)x100 = 166.84027% = 66.8% increase in muzzle energy.
So by using the proper powder we can see a 66% improvement in performance in muzzle energy while maintaining weapon reliability. Compared to my first experiments (first post) we can see that CCI primers seem to give higher velocity, however they are too hard and not reliable in the 995 as well as producing inconsistent velocity. I had about a 10% first strike failure rate with CCI primers. Swaping to softer Federal primers solved this problem and reliability has been 100% with them.
/I should get a job with an ammo company.
OK, I went out to the range today and got more data and have a final load that gives both consistant performance and higher velocity. a 115 grain bullet over 8.1 grains of Blue Dot powder and lit by a Federal small pistol primer. (I wish I could have used 8.5 grains of Blue Dot, but could never get consistant velocity with that much powder. This load is the best trade off IMHO between higher velocity and constant velocity.) All loaded to a 1.150" OAL. Here is the velocity for 20 rounds in FPS.
First mag
1492
1554
1557
1552
1550
1540
1561
1528
1553
1568
Second mag
1492
1597
1493
1535
1526
1540
1492
1571
1517
1575
For some reason the fist round in the mag seems to be slower. Mabee it is how it seats in the chamber when I cycle the action to load the weapon.
A note I have to make is that while the gun happily ate these rounds with no problem, the recoil was PAINFULL. I don't know how to explain it. I shoot my M1 Garand with no recoil pad but the 995 with these loads leaves me sore. Probably has to do with how sharp the recoil is. I am probably going to install a recoil pad on my 995. Since energy increases with the square of velocity These rounds are much more powerfull than your standard 9mm ammo. I use the "lazy man power factor"
to figure this out. Take the velocity divided by 100. Then square it and multiply it with the bullet weight in grains.Regular ammo, 115 grains at about 1200 FPS: 12x12x115 = 16560 LMPF
My 995 handloads, 115 grains at about 1550 FPS: 15.5x15.5x115 = 27628.75 LMPF
We can then find how much more powerfull these handloads are compared to standard 9mm.
(27628.75/16560)x100 = 166.84027% = 66.8% increase in muzzle energy.
So by using the proper powder we can see a 66% improvement in performance in muzzle energy while maintaining weapon reliability. Compared to my first experiments (first post) we can see that CCI primers seem to give higher velocity, however they are too hard and not reliable in the 995 as well as producing inconsistent velocity. I had about a 10% first strike failure rate with CCI primers. Swaping to softer Federal primers solved this problem and reliability has been 100% with them.
/I should get a job with an ammo company.
wolf_from_wv
Member
Lyman Reloading manual
9mm Luger (Rifle data)
Ruger PC9 carbine
115g JHP
1.090" OAL
Powder / sugg. start / max load
power pistol / 5.9 / 6.5
blue dot / 6.8 / 7.6compressed
125g JHP
1.075" OAL
Powder / sugg. start / max load
power pistol / 5.1 / 5.7
blue dot / 6.3 / 7.1compressed
130g JHP
1.160" OAL
Powder / sugg. start / max load
power pistol / 5.1 / 5.7
147g TMJ
1.115 OAL
Powder / sugg. start / max load
Unique / 4.0 / 4.5
power pistol / 4.5 / 5.0
blue dot / 5.9 / 6.6
120g #2 alloy
1.065" OAL
Powder / sugg. start / max load
power pistol / 5.0 / 5.6
147g #2 alloy
1.058" OAL
Powder / sugg. start / max load
power pistol / 4.1 / 4.6
========================
I have other data (mainly "pistol" loads):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v151/wolf_from_wv/9mm_book.jpg
Organized by:
Powders
Accurate
ADI
Alliant
Hodgdon
IMR
Ramshot
Vihtavuori
Winchester
Bullets
Hornady
Lyman (Pistol and rifle data)
Nosler
Penn
Ranier (not factory loads)
RCBS
Sierra
Speer
Websites:
www.reloadammo.com
www.handloads.com
www.reloadbench.com
Other
Magazine articles
Book articles
9mm Luger (Rifle data)
Ruger PC9 carbine
115g JHP
1.090" OAL
Powder / sugg. start / max load
power pistol / 5.9 / 6.5
blue dot / 6.8 / 7.6compressed
125g JHP
1.075" OAL
Powder / sugg. start / max load
power pistol / 5.1 / 5.7
blue dot / 6.3 / 7.1compressed
130g JHP
1.160" OAL
Powder / sugg. start / max load
power pistol / 5.1 / 5.7
147g TMJ
1.115 OAL
Powder / sugg. start / max load
Unique / 4.0 / 4.5
power pistol / 4.5 / 5.0
blue dot / 5.9 / 6.6
120g #2 alloy
1.065" OAL
Powder / sugg. start / max load
power pistol / 5.0 / 5.6
147g #2 alloy
1.058" OAL
Powder / sugg. start / max load
power pistol / 4.1 / 4.6
========================
I have other data (mainly "pistol" loads):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v151/wolf_from_wv/9mm_book.jpg
Organized by:
Powders
Accurate
ADI
Alliant
Hodgdon
IMR
Ramshot
Vihtavuori
Winchester
Bullets
Hornady
Lyman (Pistol and rifle data)
Nosler
Penn
Ranier (not factory loads)
RCBS
Sierra
Speer
Websites:
www.reloadammo.com
www.handloads.com
www.reloadbench.com
Other
Magazine articles
Book articles
Crosshair
Member
Wow, those are some light loads for the Blue Dot. Even with 8.1 grains the powder is only lightly compressed.
Interesting. My thought is this. If the extra velocity is due to same preasure over a longer time period (slower burning power) this is a good thing. The down side is I am not sure how well the cases are supported around the head (basicly how large the ramps may be) in these diffirent pistol caliber carbines. If you do increase preasure you might have case seperations or ruptures. This is not a good thing to happen. Another concern would be that most or all of these pistol caliber carbines are blowback in operation and therefore designed around standard ammo . With increased performance ammo you could be speeding up the the bolt and overcomeing the ability of the recoil spring to slow the bolt and slam it back at a certain speed. In short you might be beating on the gun.Bolt might start to open too soon also. I believe the military carbines such as the Colt are rated for 9mm+p+ but I don't know what type of saftey margin is built into the berettas or the marlins .
I would expect your tests if keep on the conservative side might be ok but any time one one goes boating in uncharted waters you run the risk of finding a rock just below the surface . One also needs to be very cautious about how you might be encourageing someone with less handloading experience to go plowing ahead. A load that works fine in your particular firearm might be a bomb in some other gun designed differently. You sound like a careful sort but don't push it too far.
I would expect your tests if keep on the conservative side might be ok but any time one one goes boating in uncharted waters you run the risk of finding a rock just below the surface . One also needs to be very cautious about how you might be encourageing someone with less handloading experience to go plowing ahead. A load that works fine in your particular firearm might be a bomb in some other gun designed differently. You sound like a careful sort but don't push it too far.
Crosshair
Member
Good points Nhsport. The Hi-Point is rated for +P+ ammo so no worries there. The case support is very good in the 9mm, less so in the 40, but better than a Glock. The problem I have had is since these guns are blowback you have to have the powder burn fast enough to burn before the bolt opens, but slow enough so you can keep peak pressure longer. I tried some 1680 powder and it was WAY too slow, dispite me craming ALOT of it into the case. I have added two small pieces of lead tape to the bolt in an effort to slow it down. It seems to have a minor effect on bolt velocity and keeping it closed longer. Is it possible to replace the recoil spring on a 995 with a heavier one???
jjohnson
Member
147gr - Expansion at Carbine Velocities?
Okay, this is a concept with real merit - I'm one of those folks with a 9mm carbine (Marlin Camp 9) that also shoots PILES of 9mm in pistols....
Great idea making up ammo just for your carbine - especially looking at your results. I'll have to play with that myself. I was wondering - if you have a carbine and are looking for most punch you can get, anybody tried doing that with the 147gr hollowpoints that *don't* have a good reputation in the pistol?
Seems to me if you're picking up some real velocity - and you are - at carbine range (for me, that's 50 yards) the extra boost might make the heavier bullet worthwhile, right? Anybody got data? I am also interested in the overall idea, since I do have lever action carbines in .357, .44 mag, 45 Colt. I'll have to get out my chronograph and fire up QuickLoad... please do post results with the load data....
Okay, this is a concept with real merit - I'm one of those folks with a 9mm carbine (Marlin Camp 9) that also shoots PILES of 9mm in pistols....
Great idea making up ammo just for your carbine - especially looking at your results. I'll have to play with that myself. I was wondering - if you have a carbine and are looking for most punch you can get, anybody tried doing that with the 147gr hollowpoints that *don't* have a good reputation in the pistol?
Seems to me if you're picking up some real velocity - and you are - at carbine range (for me, that's 50 yards) the extra boost might make the heavier bullet worthwhile, right? Anybody got data? I am also interested in the overall idea, since I do have lever action carbines in .357, .44 mag, 45 Colt. I'll have to get out my chronograph and fire up QuickLoad... please do post results with the load data....
R.W.Dale
Member
I would not try the above loads in a camp 9. The little marlin just doesn't have the bolt mass to be able to shoot these kind of loads. The recoil buffers and stocks have a hard enough time coping with standard 9mm ammunition. The little marlins are nifty guns(I owned one) but they are not rated for +P loadings.
Crosshair
Member
The problem with loading for a blowback weapon is that you have an unlocked bolt. You only have so much time before the gas seal is broken and gas starts to leak out the rear of the weapon. You can only have the bullet in the bore and have pressure in the barrel for so long. With a locked breech you don't have to worry about such things since until the bullet passes the gas port or tilts out of battery you have a perfect gas seal. It may not seem like it, but I did alot of thinking about bolt mass and timing while figuring out loads using dfferent burning rates. I have modified my 995 by adding some weight to the bolt(lead tape), this helps, but is not the best solution. The best solution would be to use a locked breech, but that is not going to happen so tinkering with the bolt mass is the only method I have. I have thought about putting in a stronger recoil spring, but the idea of a recoil buffer would seem to be more practical and I will have to explore this option.
The problem with using a 147 grain load is that you would have to increase the mass of the bolt, to maintain gas pressure, to the point of possibly sacrificing reloability of the weapon if you wanted to see a significant increase in performance. You have to think in action/reaction. What happens to the bullet affect the case/bolt/gas seal and vise versa. To get a significant increase with a lighter bullet you only need to maintain high gas pressure for a slightly longer period of time and that can be acomplished with the proper burn rate and a slight increase in bolt mass. With a heavier bullet (as I found in my tests) you need that pressure to stay for a longer period and with blowback that becomes a problem because the gas seal at the breech is broken too soon.
The problem with using a 147 grain load is that you would have to increase the mass of the bolt, to maintain gas pressure, to the point of possibly sacrificing reloability of the weapon if you wanted to see a significant increase in performance. You have to think in action/reaction. What happens to the bullet affect the case/bolt/gas seal and vise versa. To get a significant increase with a lighter bullet you only need to maintain high gas pressure for a slightly longer period of time and that can be acomplished with the proper burn rate and a slight increase in bolt mass. With a heavier bullet (as I found in my tests) you need that pressure to stay for a longer period and with blowback that becomes a problem because the gas seal at the breech is broken too soon.
grendelbane
Member
The 147 grain bullets have a disadvantage. They can easily go trans-sonic, but are too heavy to get much above the speed of sound.
However, if kept sub-sonic, they do shoot accurately. The subsonic velocity is close to where the hollow points are designed to operate, so they do not have the over expansion/under penetration problems of the lighter bullets.
The Hornady 147 even has a boat-tail.
If not using expanding bullets, then the 124's seem to work well.
I tend to think of my 9mm carbine as being the same in terminal ballistics as my .38 Super Gov't model.
One of these days I am going to try 9x23mm in a 16" carbine.
However, if kept sub-sonic, they do shoot accurately. The subsonic velocity is close to where the hollow points are designed to operate, so they do not have the over expansion/under penetration problems of the lighter bullets.
The Hornady 147 even has a boat-tail.
If not using expanding bullets, then the 124's seem to work well.
I tend to think of my 9mm carbine as being the same in terminal ballistics as my .38 Super Gov't model.
One of these days I am going to try 9x23mm in a 16" carbine.
Very possibly one of the most useful threads ever
I've been watching/reading this thread from the beginning, as I was curious about getting maximum performance for a pistol caliber carbine vs. a pistol. I thought that +P+ would perform exceptionally well, but its really interesting to see that even more "standard" (albeit HOT) loadings, with the right powder, can give impressive performance.
As far as Hi-Point durability, my 995 has over 5000 rounds through it, mostly Wolf and Blazer, the balance being +P+ loads. No failures of any kind. Good test bed.
I've been watching/reading this thread from the beginning, as I was curious about getting maximum performance for a pistol caliber carbine vs. a pistol. I thought that +P+ would perform exceptionally well, but its really interesting to see that even more "standard" (albeit HOT) loadings, with the right powder, can give impressive performance.
As far as Hi-Point durability, my 995 has over 5000 rounds through it, mostly Wolf and Blazer, the balance being +P+ loads. No failures of any kind. Good test bed.
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