Range discard bin ammunition
- Thread starter silveroak
- Start date
FROGO207
Member
Whenever the local PD has turn in ammo or defect, I get a call to remove and make it safe. I break down every last round and save anything I can as componants. The .22 i remove the lead dump the propellant and cook of the primers in an old dutch oven over heat. All the propellant is collected and sprinkled over the next camp fire to liven up the gathering. Lead is melted and mixed to a known hardness and brass is used or recycled.
Over the years I have seen enough to reinforce not shooting ANY ammo not reloaded by me or purchased in sealed box new condition. OP you have been extremely lucky so far.
Over the years I have seen enough to reinforce not shooting ANY ammo not reloaded by me or purchased in sealed box new condition. OP you have been extremely lucky so far.
Appreciate everyone's replies once again.
Apologies to Geo and Hooda for causing their misunderstanding. Hey, it's me doing not, not either one of you!
But I will tickle this some more for everyone's entertainment
I get it: we are dealing with already dangerous items, by chambering something from the bin, why multiply the risks, especially if the risks can stack to an inappropriate (mistakenly or intentionally hot) load in a weak firearm. Do this enough times and something may/will happen.
But I have to ask you all, reloaders - "my ammo only" line of thought, is that taking it a bit too far?
Think of a field situation (use imagination), or (hope not) an emergency situation.
Would you accept something from a friend or a stranger?
Would you pick up something that sat somewhere for an unknown amount of time, but you had to use it.
Who wouldn't, no?
And if not, what are some of external signs that would prevent you from contemplating use of a common caliber even in a field or an emergency setting.
Comments please
Pretty much my ammo only. My brother was given a bunch of 38 Special reloads once. Sierra bullets, nickel plated Federal casings - it looked better than factory. He shot some and got lucky. We pulled the rest down for components and he found one round with no powder. That would only get you a stuck bullet and a tied up revolver, but a double charge could blind you. Even a minor trip to the gunsmith is more irritation than I need anymore. I like my recreation to be drama free.
WestKentucky
Member
Only thing that really comes to mind are things that obviously shouldn’t happen, like 45 colt in an ancient gun that may not handle modern loads, or shooting range-finds in a trapdoor Springfield. The rest should be pretty obvious, but don’t ever assume that a semi-rimmed 32acp that fits in a 32sw revolver is safe. 32 acp will pop a cylinder in a hurry, especially old revolvers of lesser respected lineage.
bigpower491
Member
Appreciate everyone's replies once again.
Apologies to Geo and Hooda for causing their misunderstanding. Hey, it's me doing not, not either one of you!
But I will tickle this some more for everyone's entertainment
I get it: we are dealing with already dangerous items, by chambering something from the bin, why multiply the risks, especially if the risks can stack to an inappropriate (mistakenly or intentionally hot) load in a weak firearm. Do this enough times and something may/will happen.
But I have to ask you all, reloaders - "my ammo only" line of thought, is that taking it a bit too far?
Think of a field situation (use imagination), or (hope not) an emergency situation.
Would you accept something from a friend or a stranger?
Would you pick up something that sat somewhere for an unknown amount of time, but you had to use it.
Who wouldn't, no?
And if not, what are some of external signs that would prevent you from contemplating use of a common caliber even in a field or an emergency setting.
Comments please
A couple yrs ago, a gentleman who's family cabin I used to deer hunt at many many moons ago gave me a zip lock bag with 25-30 300 Winchester Magnum cartridges in. They were in some boxes they had laying around up there when they sold off the place a few yrs back. It is entirely possible that they were my cartridges, and the last time I'd been up there for deer season was just before I started rolling my own. Were talking these are probably from late 80s very early 90s.
I'm almost positive they're factory loads, probably 180 power points, but almost positive ain't gonna convince me to try em. I'll eventually get around to pulling the bullets, weighing the bullets, putting a starting charge of 7828 in and see if they light off.
Of course I'll make a rocket or some firecrackers with the propellant in em, but shoot em. Nope. Because I have no idea who might have come up there with a 300 magnum since my time there, and honestly I'm not known for leaving ammo behind at camp. It's possible, but unlikely. Better safe than maimed or worse.
As far as being a handloader, and my ammo only. I really don't think that's taking it too far. I, and every one of us that plays our game know exactly what's in the case, which of our firearms it's suitable in if we have multiples of the same caliber, and the end product has been carefully worked up and proven safe for our application.
I always tell people to do what you think you can handle, but when it comes to ammunition, and especially something from the scrap bin, it ain't worth the potential consequences to even think about using unknown ammo.
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Appreciate everyone's replies. I see there is a lot more potential for loads dangerously outside of the parameters to be sitting in the bin.
I made myself go and google blown up guns in actual accidents. Some pictures are scary, especially sturdy revolvers taken apart by an incorrect load.
I made myself go and google blown up guns in actual accidents. Some pictures are scary, especially sturdy revolvers taken apart by an incorrect load.
I sort of have a reason to start reloading the - 6.5 Carcano TS. My understanding is the correctly weighted, bullet-sized and loaded ammo commercially does not exist right now. I would like to see how the original sights do with the correct load. Have not seen any surplus ever since I was so late to owning it relatively the time it was around, but even if found, ya'll concerns would make me think twice shooting it
ballman6711
Member
If you can find the brass and the bullets, you can load it. You may have to get a mold and cast your own bullets though.
Reloading breathes new life into old and obsolete cartridges. It's an enjoyable hobby as well for a lot of people.
chris
Reloading breathes new life into old and obsolete cartridges. It's an enjoyable hobby as well for a lot of people.
chris
Yes, I was keeping the PPU brass from the available commercial load in hopes to start someday.
I started saving brass way before I started reloading. It just seemed wrong to throw away brass that could be reused.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
I thought I'd post here since we do not have a dedicated ammunition umbrella.
This is on a lighter note
I've been finding myself going through the failure-to-feed, failure-to-fire discard bins at my range.
Never know what may be sitting there. Part curiosity, part demonstrating the visitors with me the calibers we do not shoot or have on hand.
Somehow I feel this is an acceptable and nobler form of garbage bin rummaging. What do you think?
You can easily visualize the difference between 5.56 and .223, or keep an interesting one for research.. and all in between.
As an aside, failures-to-fire that I could chamber that day or another never failed to fire given the second chance. Huh. I eagerly try them. Why not?
I have avoided the really crooked failures-to-feed.
Latest finds are several of Turkish 7.92 Mauser from the 40s (I will try to fire them, I've read they are hot, corrosive and have spotty reliability) and a 7.62x54R silvertip that is just asking for country and date of origin research.
A an incendiary and provocative question for the ammunition experts here
Could you think of calibers found in the discard bin that from the looks could lead you to a snap mistake of believing you can chamber and fire it that day or next in one of your firearms - and in reality are not compatible, but may chamber without alarming you, or, worse, fire, potentially creating a hazard.
Please list the dangerously-close-but-incompatible calibers and, respectively, chambers you own!
I ain't not firin' no mystery ammo scavenged from the depths of obscurity.
Period, end of story.
I might look to see what there is to see, but that's it. There can be some pretty cool stuff to be found.
But chamber it in any of my guns?
Nope.
"There can be some pretty cool stuff to be found" - this made me start looking, caliber, case bullet interest. And there was just one step from there to chambering and firing.
In my defense - for everyone here - everything so far has been WW1-WW2 cartridges with an occasional .223/.556. No handgun bins yet.
I am sure you've read it all. Mosins, Mausers, SKS and 7.62x39 discards - strong, overbuilt actions, takes some real effort to blow up. More like unreal. Right? Or not. You tell me. And even .223/.556 - given lack of of awareness of the collective wisdom here, I was more-or-less, let's send it - Amralite HBAR, what the worst that can happen?
One thing for sure - I won't contemplate doing this to anything outside of mil-surp. And most likely none now, at least not without real hand and eyes protection.
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bullseye308
Member
I find plenty of discarded rounds at the range. They all come home and get disassembled for components. The powder goes into a bottle labeled “mixed powder” and what I can use I’ll inspect and store and what I can’t use, I’ll trade of gift. If it’s no good the brass goes in the scrap bucket and the bullet gets melted for the lead.
When I find .22 rounds, I’ll try to fire them once and if they don’t go off, I’ll pull the bullet, bottle the powder, and flatten the case with a sledge on a steel block.
When I find .22 rounds, I’ll try to fire them once and if they don’t go off, I’ll pull the bullet, bottle the powder, and flatten the case with a sledge on a steel block.
kmw1954
Member
Trying to differentiate between discarded, damaged and dropped.
I have been working at an outdoor range for 4 winters now. This range has 4 separate ranges, 25yds, 50yds, 100yds, 200/300yds. Two of these ranges have dirt floors with empty brass covering everything. Every morning before we open I do a walk through inspection with only one purpose. To pick up live rounds that were dropped on the ground and not picked up. Actually I believe you would all be surprised by the amount of unfired rounds even just get left on the benches amongst all the spent cases.
There is nothing wrong with this stuff as in most every case it was dropped into the dirt and not looked for, dropped and not found or ejected after a cease fire was called. So yes I pick it up. Some I shoot as foulers after cleaning my rifle others I break down. Powder gets discarded.
I have been working at an outdoor range for 4 winters now. This range has 4 separate ranges, 25yds, 50yds, 100yds, 200/300yds. Two of these ranges have dirt floors with empty brass covering everything. Every morning before we open I do a walk through inspection with only one purpose. To pick up live rounds that were dropped on the ground and not picked up. Actually I believe you would all be surprised by the amount of unfired rounds even just get left on the benches amongst all the spent cases.
There is nothing wrong with this stuff as in most every case it was dropped into the dirt and not looked for, dropped and not found or ejected after a cease fire was called. So yes I pick it up. Some I shoot as foulers after cleaning my rifle others I break down. Powder gets discarded.
mstreddy
Member
OP, nearly everything has been covered, many times already. But, you are referencing MilSurps and 223/5.56 in ARs. And you asked yourself:
Understand that rifle cartridges are running at 50,000 PSI and up in normal loads. What happens with the wrong powder, i.e. fast burning pistol powder in rifle case? -- Kaboom! And as you've seen in the pictures, the rifles come apart in a spectacular and rapid fashion. While you are holding it in your hands and have your face behind the bolt or receiver.
The least damage that could happen may be a ruptured case that is stuck in the chamber and becomes a pain to remove. And you can continue along the scale to stuck projectile from a squib. And if that's followed by another round?
And, in the case of WW1 and WW2 ammo, most had corrosive primers and the bullets may have become cold welded to the case as mentioned above. And not to mention the deterioration of the powder. Some 8MM surplus was known for delayed ignition due to failing powder. The primer would pop, but the powder stack would take a little longer to fully ignite and send the round out. Pop, wait, wait, boom.
So, corrosive ammo means you better clean your rifle or risk rusty bores and actions.
I think you probably get the picture now. And I am glad you asked, particularly in the reloading forum.
BTW, as many here, I do pick up and break down the components.
Well, the answer is found in the many pictures and stories of the shattered, busted, and broken rifles and bloody faces in those photos.
Understand that rifle cartridges are running at 50,000 PSI and up in normal loads. What happens with the wrong powder, i.e. fast burning pistol powder in rifle case? -- Kaboom! And as you've seen in the pictures, the rifles come apart in a spectacular and rapid fashion. While you are holding it in your hands and have your face behind the bolt or receiver.
The least damage that could happen may be a ruptured case that is stuck in the chamber and becomes a pain to remove. And you can continue along the scale to stuck projectile from a squib. And if that's followed by another round?
And, in the case of WW1 and WW2 ammo, most had corrosive primers and the bullets may have become cold welded to the case as mentioned above. And not to mention the deterioration of the powder. Some 8MM surplus was known for delayed ignition due to failing powder. The primer would pop, but the powder stack would take a little longer to fully ignite and send the round out. Pop, wait, wait, boom.
So, corrosive ammo means you better clean your rifle or risk rusty bores and actions.
I think you probably get the picture now. And I am glad you asked, particularly in the reloading forum.
BTW, as many here, I do pick up and break down the components.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Cold welding requires four things:
1. Similar metals
2. Clean metal surfaces (no contaminants/oxides)
3. Vacuum
4. Contact between the two metal pieces (and typically significant pressure is involved)
Items 2 and 3 don't exist in the case of bullets in a case. Sometimes item one doesn't exist, either, in the case of unjacketed lead bullets. What you get is corrosion, or oxides, which may interact to cause them to "stick" together, but not on an atomic level like cold welding.
Wikipedia is pretty good on explaining this:
Cold welding - Wikipedia
mstreddy
Member
Chief,
Would it be similar or dissimilar metals, as in bullet jacket and cartridge brass?
Or more likely, I'm borrowing a term and using it very loosely.
But, some of the older cartridges with the cupronickel jackets were notorious for sticking (welding?) to the case necks.
Some military surplus ammo gives people nightmares even when we do try to use it in the correct rifles. You could also misidentify a round if you don’t know the headstamps and chamber an incorrect round in your rifle. Military ammunition usually only has arsenal codes and the year.
If you find a .308 looking round marked F A 6 7, is that safe to shoot from your Ruger American or is it an experimental round best left in a collection? What about OFV 95 7.62 M80?
RetiredUSNChief
Member
It would be similar metals.
One could argue that the copper jacketing of many bullets would be similar to the brass cartridge, given that brass is an alloy of copper and zinc containing somewhere near 70% copper.
Dissimilar metals have other issues to be concerned with, like galvanic corrosion when in the presence of something acting as an electrolyte.
Random 8
Member
I believe you are describing the industrial process of cold welding, rather than the phenomenon first observed in ammunition with early jacketed ammunition for the Springfield rifle that contained tin in the jacket.Cold welding requires four things:
1. Similar metals
2. Clean metal surfaces (no contaminants/oxides)
3. Vacuum
4. Contact between the two metal pieces (and typically significant pressure is involved)
Items 2 and 3 don't exist in the case of bullets in a case. Sometimes item one doesn't exist, either, in the case of unjacketed lead bullets. What you get is corrosion, or oxides, which may interact to cause them to "stick" together, but not on an atomic level like cold welding.
Wikipedia is pretty good on explaining this:
Cold welding - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
In ammunition terms, "cold welding" is an admittedly imprecise term used to describe bonding of bullet jackets to case necks through various processes including galvanic action, corrosion and other things better understood by metallurgists. It can be rather bad JuJu when encountered in ammunition. I have only observed it personally, discounting poorly stored or VERY old ammunition, in a certain variety of steel cased foreign surplus ammunition. The copper washed cartridge case and mild steel Tombak washed bullet jacket were inseparably bonded.
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RetiredUSNChief
Member
As an engineer, I'm all about precision!
Cold welding does, indeed, describe something very specific. Corrosion (of which there are many types) is something else altogether.
You are correct...in layman's terms, there is a bit of imprecision in the terminology. However, we're all about learning on THR, as evidenced by our own terminologies and processes. Like "magazine" vs "clip". And then there's the whole reloading process and precision competition shooting.
Highland Lofts
Member
- Joined
- May 1, 2019
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I shoot at DNR gravel pits and pick up all of the brass that is left on the ground to seperate, tumble and either use or sell and all of the spent shotgun hulls to toss into the trash dumpster at a friend's farm.
I also have a good size collection of range ammo that I've picked up over the years. I'd never consider shooting this ammo left by other shooters. The 22lr and new shotgun shells would probably be OK, but not by me.
I have so much brass and can buy what ever I need I'm not tearing loaded range ammo down for any reason.
I also have a good size collection of range ammo that I've picked up over the years. I'd never consider shooting this ammo left by other shooters. The 22lr and new shotgun shells would probably be OK, but not by me.
I have so much brass and can buy what ever I need I'm not tearing loaded range ammo down for any reason.