Range Operators/Instructors - What is your most trouble free/Troublesome pistol?

[Old Dog]

Desertscout says

I don't see that it really makes a bit of difference.

Absolutely it does. I see 1911 neophytes all the time, folks who've bought one for whatever reasons, who don't even know how to field strip or reassemble their pistols, who haven't taken them down, cleaned or lubed their pistols prior to taking 'em to the range ... And yep, sure 'nuff, lotsa these pistols don't run reliably ... I do see significant numbers of 1911 malfunctions, but not normally in the hands of those experienced with the operating system, maintenance and shooting procedures for the platform.

The gun either malfs or it doesn't.

Not so fast, there ... just not quite true if we're talking about those experienced persons who use 1911s for real world work. I take it that you're not a 1911 guy. Most 1911 aficianados understand how to keep their pistols running, and simply don't carry/shoot 1911s that aren't reliable for them ...

My experiences of 1911s at the local indoor range are of course quite different than what I've observed about 1911s at a top-tier gun school. Yes, the 1911 may still occasionally malfunction (as any semiauto pistol platform will) for Joe Professional Operator at Blackwater, but far less often than Jane New Shooter down at Guns'R'Us Rental Range.

 

[Walkalong]

Since this thread has turned into wether or not 1911's run, well, all of mine do.

 

[Desertscout]

We're talking about guns more than people and, fortunately, I think Jupiter understands that. Some guns need to be held a little tighter, some need differently designed ammo, some run better with lots of lube some with less. My experiences and what I see on my range and nearly every other range that I have been to doesn't change. And this is not a "wether or not 1911's run" thread. I posted a number different designs and makes and the order of reliability that we have experienced with them. Ya'll can argue all you want, that won't change. We've had new shooters, former SF, current Marines retired and active cops and whatever else you can think of and the results are fairly consistent.
Maybe it's the gravitational pull of the earth in this part of New Mexico. :banghead:

 

[Old Dog]

We're talking about guns more than people

Understand, but I do think the people aspect needs to be mentioned, because, as noted previously, it's not always the hardware at fault. I see numerous firearms failures regularly that I know are directly attributable to improper maintenance, lack of maintenance or operator errors -- failures in firearms that normally have a stellar record for reliability.

Actually, I'd not intended to turn this thread into a "do 1911s run or not" thread ... rather, just sought to qualify why we might see what we see at one's local ranges ... which is why I sought clarification in desertscout's initial post.

 

[Trebor]

I've been running classes for about five years now and I'm at the point where I regularly do one class a month with about a 8 - 12 students.

I've actually been tracking what guns I see and what failures I see. I've missed a few, here and there, but my list is fairly complete. I don't claim it to be "scientific data collection," but it is interesting anecdotal evidence.

For me, whenever I see a student with a Ruger centerfire auto, I breathe a sigh of relieft because that's one gun I know isn't going to go down and slow down the class. They are fairly common in my classes and just seem to run and run. I finally saw my first "bad" Ruger recently, and it was the newer 345 in .45 ACP.

The gun I *hate* seeing is the Berretta or Stoeger Cougar. I've only had three of those come through my class, but all three had multiple malfunctions. I think the rotating barrel requires different lubricating techniques then other guns.

I see a lot of Glocks and surprisingly they seem as prone to malfunctions as any other design. I had a .45 ACP Glock (mid size, can't recall the model #) in my most recent class that had double feeds in almost every mag. The gun was being used by two students (brothers) and it happened for both of them. The owner said he thought it was related to the Winchster White Box ammo he bought as he'd never had that problem with any other ammo.

I rent out some of my own guns and my Sig 239 is extremely reliable. It gets shoot a lot and I can recall only one or two total novices who managed to limp wrist it and cause malfunctions.

My Glock 19 runs fine as well, so far no one has had any problems.

Ammo seems to make a big difference. I've banned Wolf ammo from my classes after having multiple students with problems caused by that ammo. It just slows the class down too much if the guns keep going down.

 

[Wes Janson]

I sold a Beretta Cougar a few months back, and it jammed immediately when the customer shot it. He brought it back in, I pulled it apart, and it was absolutely bone dry. Dropped some CLP over the barrel and rails, and he took it back out where it shot flawlessly.

I have seen Rugers fail on occasion..although there was also the guy who was upset that his P90 was jamming once or twice per mag while shooting 9mm Luger through it.

 

[RobertFBurnett]

3) Despite saying this, half of them have 1911's themselves. In fact, one of them told me this as he was working on his personal 1911... So, I'm as confused as the next person as to their true feelings

Because shooting a XD or a Glock is as easy as using the Nintendo Wiimote (Not a bad thing, just no hammers or safeties etc. to fiddle with), and they crave that challenge?

RFB

 

[Commander Crusty]

I used to shoot a lot of IPSC, steel and pins. The Glocks worked. The 1911s did not. I don't carry a 1911.

 

[Old Fuff]

I will again point out that there are two kinds of 1911 platform pistols. Those made by Colt and/or U.S. Government contractors between 1912 and about 1965 worked fine - out of the box, and with the magazines that came with them. The ones being refered to in this thread were produced by current or recent past junk-makers. It is often true that their products are unreliable, but this shouldn't be cause to condem what was a fine pistol.

 

[RPCVYemen]

I rent out some of my own guns and my Sig 239 is extremely reliable.

I don't run a range, but I did rent for a long time before buying. My impression is that the range I rented at did zero preventitife maintenance - a gun was rented out until it broke, and then it was fixed.

The first revolver I rented locked up - and a locked up revolver is pretty darn hard to clear. I also rented a Cougar that would not go into battery - the repair guy said that their Cougars had been problematic. He thought the problem was the channel the along the top of the slide getting dirty was the issue.

The one handgun I rented a number of times with no issues was a Sig P239 in .357 SIG. Absolutely reliable, and a fun gun to shoot.

Mike