Range report- Saiga 12

[Ben Shepherd]

Had the opportunity to take out my brand new IZ-109 Saiga 12 the other day. This is the model with rifle sights and a 19" barrel, for those that didn't know.

It worked just like I expected. Any combination of 2 3/4" or 3" shells, bird, buck, or slug I put in the magazine cycled fine. It hits where I point it, and even with rifle sights skeet weren't too hard.

There are a few slight drawbacks to this shotgun.

1. It does not point very naturally, balance point is fairly far forward. You have to run the gun. Think of it as the SKS of shotguns. Functional and tank-like, with no real sleekness or smoothness.

2. Because of the action type, it has a tendency to throw you around unless you really have ahold of it. It's nowhere near as smooth of an action as an 1100 or auto 5.

3. The rifle sights, while there, are standard commie stuff. A little small, and a bit rough around the edges.

OVERALL:

Exactly what I expected it to be. A little more use to smooth the action up, and I'll be 100% satisfied with this gun. I was also pleasantly suprised how easy it is to clean. It's so big everywhere that getting all the crud out is easy as pie.

Next trip out, I'll take a big enough piece of cardboard to do some pattern work with it.

 

[VirgilCaine]

So, the drawbacks come from the fact that it's structured like an assault rifle and not a sporting shotgun?

I can't really say that's a surprise.

Good to hear you're happy with your weapon.

 

[rocinante]

I wouldn't call the sights standard commie stuff in they are nothing like my SKS or AK. I bought the standard AK style front sight that goes on the end of the barrel and it helps a lot giving a longer sight radius. Still trying to figure out how to improve the rear sight.

It is what it is and it is FUN and FUNCTIONAL. Get use to it and it will grow on you. Get it converted too into a form it was designed for. The pistol grip helps a lot.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Rocinante:

Didn't mean to mis-lead there. By standard commie stuff, I meant small and kind of crude, not that they are the same exact type of sights.

Also I am going to have it converted with an ACE soccom stock like I have on my 223 saigas. That stock is rock solid, and with the big padded tube, it's one folder that won't punch me in the face.

Another couple reasons for that stock choice:

1. It's adjustable for LOP. The factory sporter stock is a little long for me.

2. My storage space is becoming somewhat limited, being able to shorten it up will be a nice advantage.


As for getting it converted back to a form it is designed for? I've had the pleasure of running a TROMIX converted one that was cut down to 8 inches with a rail system up front with a vertical foregrip handle and HK style sights. That thing is as close to fitting the deffinition of fearsome weapon as can be. Very fast pointing, easy to control, and with those sights, target acquisition is a snap.

 

[sm]

Ben,
Great report and thanks for sharing.

Since I am too lazy to look up what I have forgotten, do you mind posting weight of gun and dimensions?
New folks might find my being lazy and my "forgetter being better" a good thing as this information will be in this thread.

Where I am going (amongst other places) is Rule of 96 - weight of gun to recoil curve.

Oh, being as you said the weight is forward, I bet you did not stop your swing on them skeet targets- huh?

*neat*

 

[rocinante]

Not sure what it weighs but I measured mine today for someone else inquirying. I have a regular ace folding stock with an internal block. Folded it is 29 inches, open 39 3/4.

It is definitely not a featherweight 8, 9 lbs. Recoil isn't that bad either because of the gas system. I have a 20 inch coach gun and I don't mind firing slugs out of the saiga but they kick out of the coach.



Ben Shepherd that is a killer stock but a little too pricey for me.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

OAL comes in at 40 1/2. LOP is 13 1/2. Gun empty weighs 7 pounds.

Due to the action type the recoil feels more like a blackpowder rifle than most other shotguns I've fired. It's a big, heavy, long action vs. any other 12 gauge I've used. It pushes hard rather than kicking.

Rocinante:
I'm sold on that stock for saiga conversions for any of them with more recoil than a 223. I was going to go with just the standard ace folder on the S-12, but after shooting one in 308 with that stock? No thanks. On the 12 guage, I'll spend the money to keep my cheek in one piece during high round count range sessions with heavy loads.

Edit: Forgot a couple points.

1. Once you understand the angle and depth involved, inserting a loaded mag on a closed bolt is not hard at all. But it will take substantial practice to memorize the correct motion. And if you do get it wrong, seating that mag is a bugger.

2. These 10 round magazines? I think they are a bit too bulky and heavy for real use. YMMV.
I was going to scare up a couple factory 8 rounders to stash. But after playing with mine all day, I think I'll stick with 5 rounders, unless an 8 round magazine falls in my lap.

 

[sm]

Ben,
Thanks for taking the time to measure/weigh and post a reply.

rocinante,
Your reply was most helpful as well.


Steve

 

[Robert Hairless]

It pushes hard rather than kicking.

Very good way to describe it. My Saiga-12 feels rather mild to me, somewhat like dancing closely with a responsive partner who has muscles. Not an unpleasant feeling at all as the gun moves slightly back into the pocket. I like rolling with it while moving.

 

[Patrick_Henry]

Ben,
You compared the action on the Saiga to the 1100 so I'm assuming you have shot both. I know the 1100 doesn't kick that hard and I've seen on here the Saiga doesn't kick much at all, so how does the felt recoil on the Saiga compare to the 1100. Is it about the same, less, or significantly less? This information would be most helpful to me.

Thanks

 

[Ben Shepherd]

About the same amount really. Just a different feel. The saigas recoil is spread out over a little longer time curve. It really does push instead of kick.

The saiga actions lack of speed is noticable enough that you almost find yourself waiting on the action to cycle if you're really trying to dump the mag in a big hurry. HOWEVER:

Don't take that wrong. It will run as fast as you can go under control easily. I was just trying to get it to hang up during it's initial test, and I was going way too fast to even be useful in a CQB situation when I noticed that. With as much moving mass as that bolt/carrier/piston assy. has, if it had enough gas and spring pressure to cycle quick and sharp, it'd be almost uncontrollable unless you were a very big guy and trained with it a lot.

 

[Patrick_Henry]

Thanks for the info. I think I may start trying to find one...

 

[RWBlue01]

Talk to me about shooting slugs through the Saiga.

How accurate?
What slug?

 

[Ben Shepherd]

If you're thinking 75 yrd. deer hunting shots, I haven't tried that. I don't intend to use this gun for that.

If you're talking combat type stuff-I can reliably put 5 1 oz federal rifled slugs in the A zone in about 3 seconds at 5 yards with a saiga. I know others who are faster by a good margin, as well.

 

[sm]

Ben,

Do have any idea on the bore specs on Saiga?
I am curious about chamber, forcing cone, bore and choke of course...I mean running a Stan Baker Bore diameter tool would just be too neat. *yep*

Bore diameter and Constriction are two main questions now.
Not all 12 ga bores are .729 and point of choke (POC) will make a difference based on bore.

i.e. 5 poc on a .729 is different from 5 poc on .735, even though both are 12 gauge.

I just hear these guns do a nice job with a variety of loading in both slug, buckshot and pellet loads (mostly #6).

Just curious is all.
Part has to do with the Russians winning the Gold Medal one year and using a a choke called a "Russian" choke thereafter.

Art & Science...no matter if a Saiga or a nice Wood-n-Blue clays gun.

Just learning...always will.

Thanks,

Steve