Rate Tokarev TT-33 and Makarov Quality by Country of Origin

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I admire the design and functionality of the Tokarev TT-33, especially since it is basically copied from the original design of John Moses Browning's, Colt 1911 Model. I have two TT-33's : A 1941 Russian in 7.62 x 25, and a Norinco in 9mm.

Several of the Soviet Bloc countries produced the TT-33 in 7.65 x 25 mm. I would be interested in the opinions of THR members, in evaluating the quality of those manufactured in Russia, Poland, Romania, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, and others. I've heard Poland ranks at the top, while some have been said to be of very low quality.

Likewise I would appreciate a similar evaluation of the original Makarov in 9 x 18mm, by country. East Berlin and Russia have both been mentioned as the best, depending on who you talk to. It is not necessary to evaluate other 9 x 18mm guns like CZ-82 or P-64, etc.

Thanks.:)
 
I don't know much about the Mak, but the Toks I've handled go like this:

1. Russian
2. Polish (tie with Russian and has same slide serrations)
3. Yugo (a thing unto itself)
4. Romanian (cheap copy)
5. Egyptian/Pakistani
6. Chinese

Don't know much about Bulgarian ones. Never seen one. Never seen one from North Korea either.
 
crazyjennyblack said:
I don't know much about the Mak, but the Toks I've handled go like this:

1. Russian
2. Polish (tie with Russian and has same slide serrations)
3. Yugo (a thing unto itself)
4. Romanian (cheap copy)
5. Egyptian/Pakistani
6. Chinese

Don't know much about Bulgarian ones. Never seen one. Never seen one from North Korea either.
Click to expand...
Please explain #3 Yugo (a thing unto itself). Good, bad, or worth / not worth consideration. Thanks.
 
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I think that he was alluding to the fact that the Yugoslavian (now Serbian) Zastava M57 is not an exact copy of the TT33. It has a larger magazine capacity, longer grip, and (on the currently-produced ones) a slide-mounted factory-installed safety.
 
Commercial Russian Maks have some of the worst internals (overcut chambers etc) I have ever seen.

Chinese Maks are pretty rare that I don't think the finish matters. The few I have seen that were imported had a really chintzy adjustable rear sight. A real 'war trophy' Chinese Mak is a different animal.

Genuine blued surplus Maks are far more desirable than later commercial made pistols with adjustable sights and parked finishes.

East Germans Maks are by far the best finished of the surplus Maks.

----

As far as Toks go, a real Soviet piece with no import marks is going to be worth more to a collector than any converted to have a positive external safety.

Polish T-33's have been very good finish wise. They seem to be the closest to a real Soviet pistol you can get.

Egyptian 'tokagypts' in 9mm and 7.62 are some of the least expensive and rough finished I have seen. They work well though. I've seen 9mm Tokagypts with some serious abuse to the finish that keep right on working. Chinese Toks are on par with these.

The Yugo guns have a safety that works well and is well finished, but isn't really a T-33.

Really depends if you want a 'pretty' pistol or a collector's piece or a functional arm.
 
Will the 1930 Tokarev (of unknown origin, from Numrich) hammer group fit the Romanian TTC? https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/917550.htm

I need a replacement, one of the rear "ears" broke off after about 6 spam cans worth of surplus ammo, still functions, but I'd rather not push my luck.

I've Polish and Chinese T-33 in the collection and the hammer groups all seem to interchange well enough, but I don't know anything about the 30 vs. 33 diferences.
 
Going solely by what I've owned, the Polish Tok is way nicer than the Norincos, though the Norincos have all been fully functional. The Norinco Mak I had was far nicer (beautiful bluing) than my Bulgie, which was in turn much nicer than the Russian commercial model I had. They all functioned perfectly, the differences were all about finish.
 
East German Makarovs
Polish Tokarevs
Bulgarian guns are close seconds to these guns
Russians come in third place for Makarovs and Tokarevs.
 
My brother has an East German Mak and the overall fit and finish are great. The polishing and blued finish are definitely up to the quality of most U.S. gun manufacturers.
 
I've had two Norincos. A 54 in 9mm and a 213 in 9mm. I sold the 213 to a buddy who needed his first handgun cheap as he had just moved to a dicier neighborhood and wanted something affordable to protect his home.

I love the 54. It does have the aftermarket mandatory safety, but it shoots wonderfully. Nice solid hiking/truck pistol. I haven't shot it in a couple years. Both the Norincos had a somewhat rough finish inside the slide, but function wise they have been 100%.

I do have a question on that goofy safety if the OP doesn't mind a slight off topic tangent:

How does it actually, ya know, work? With the safety on, you pull the trigger and the hammer falls. Near as I can tell, when you engage the safety, doesn't it sort of just shroud the firing pin? So it more of a safety for safely lowering the hammer down to half-cocked and keeping the hammer face off the pin? I've never thought to try firing the gun with the safety on and a loaded round in the tube while at the range. I think I've only put maybe 100 rounds through it total.

I never carry mine with one in the chamber as it is a back packing/loaner range toy that doesn't get much action these days.
 
Makarov PMs (military)
1. East German
2. Russian
3. Bulgarian
4. Chinese (big gap between the above three and the Chinese)

Commercial Makarovs
1. Bulgarian
2. Russian (I've had Russian commercial Maks that were very nice, and others that had some obvious QC issues. The double stack Maks are a separate issue, and could be rated #3 below the standard Commercial Maks.

non-Makarov variants in 9x18
1. Czech vz. 82 (fine firearm, in a class of its own).
2. Polish p-64 (very nicely constructed, abysmal DA trigger pull, tiny sights)
3. Polish p-83 Wanad (rougher/cheaper construction, but reliable and accurate. I find it a bit more comfortable in the hand than the Mak PM - I would but this above the #4 Chinese clone above)
4. Feg PA-63 (quality can vary quite a bit. I dumped mine years ago).

Tokarevs
1. Polish (I have two from when these originally came on the market. Should have picked up more).
2. Russian
3. Yugoslav (but these are not a pure TT-33 clone)
4. Romanian (rough - another big gap between the above three and the Chinese. I've handled many, and took a pass on all.)
5. Egyptian
6. Chinese
 
Fiv3r said:
I've had two Norincos. A 54 in 9mm and a 213 in 9mm. I sold the 213 to a buddy who needed his first handgun cheap as he had just moved to a dicier neighborhood and wanted something affordable to protect his home.

I love the 54. It does have the aftermarket mandatory safety, but it shoots wonderfully. Nice solid hiking/truck pistol. I haven't shot it in a couple years. Both the Norincos had a somewhat rough finish inside the slide, but function wise they have been 100%.

I do have a question on that goofy safety if the OP doesn't mind a slight off topic tangent:

How does it actually, ya know, work? With the safety on, you pull the trigger and the hammer falls. Near as I can tell, when you engage the safety, doesn't it sort of just shroud the firing pin? So it more of a safety for safely lowering the hammer down to half-cocked and keeping the hammer face off the pin? I've never thought to try firing the gun with the safety on and a loaded round in the tube while at the range. I think I've only put maybe 100 rounds through it total.

I never carry mine with one in the chamber as it is a back packing/loaner range toy that doesn't get much action these days.
Click to expand...
The Norinco I have is a 9 x19 mm (Luger), and it is the 213 model. From what I seemed to glean on the web, The model 54 is 7.62 X 25 mm, but I could be wrong. At any rate, it's a Norinco and 9mm.

I was always puzzled about the safety. I thought they had it backwards from how the 1911 works. I haven't shot it in a while, and figured I'd leave it back, toward me, which I thought would be leaving the safety off.

After I read your post, I checked the gun. You appear to be correct. When the safety is back, you can pull the trigger and the hammer will fall. I seemed to see the trigger engage when pushing the safety forward. I plan to try pulling the trigger, with a live round in the chamber, the next time I take it to the firing range. Of course I will be pointing the muzzle down range, not staring down the front end of the muzzle. Duh! I will be treating the gun as if were to be fired. We shall see.

I don't know why the gov'ment dodo's require a safety to be installed before importing into the US. It already has a safety, using 1/2 cock with the hammer.:)
 
Romanian Tokarev TT-33

If I could revisit this thread for a question, I've seen a Romanian TT-33 in very good condition for approx. $ 180.00, for sale. With my C&R FFL and shipping, it would cost me about $ 200.00.

I'd like for anybody who has owned one, or otherwise had experience to advise if the Romanian Tokarev is worth $ 200.00 ? I am interested more in functionality than collectibility and looks, although I would like both too. Thanks.:)
 
^I got many tokarevs. One being a romanian....mine the fit and finish is fine and far better than the modern zastava modern m57 versions.

On topic ......on tokarevs.....and the m57s

Polish
Russian
Yugos
Romanian
Modern commercial yugos

I've got no first hand data on Chinese, Pakistan or other versions.

None often this applies for collecting.....just fit and finish and shooting.
 
I never cared for the Tokarev but do have the East German Makarov. Of all the ones I have seen and shot , the German made Maks are the best made.
 
FYI - Tokarev

Although not a true TT-33, I have had several mil-surp Yugo M57's and they worked very well - the add-on safety seems to be one of the best designs on the surplus imports.

I have a Russian commercial Makarov and it is an extremely solid shooter with which I am also very satisfied.



FYI - a couple of links that might be of interest:

AIM Surplus sent me an e-mail on some sweet looking Polish Tokarevs, but I dithered too long and they sold out. You can sign up to be notified if/when they are back in stock. Just be ready to 'pull the trigger' on the purchase - they do not last long. http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F3PTOK&utm_source=03+Collectors&utm_campaign=360fd95a4c-CR08212014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_9df2ba8aca-360fd95a4c-19258113

Here is a link to what may be the most interesting Tokarev (and other firearms) related forum I have found at PakGuns.com. The "Fearsome .30 Cal." is always an interesting visit. http://www.pakguns.com/forumdisplay.php?9-Handguns&
 
Romanian Tokarov Any Good?

Gun Master said:
If I could revisit this thread for a question, I've seen a Romanian TT-33 in very good condition for approx. $ 180.00, for sale. With my C&R FFL and shipping, it would cost me about $ 200.00.

I'd like for anybody who has owned one, or otherwise had experience to advise if the Romanian Tokarev is worth $ 200.00 ? I am interested more in functionality than collectibility and looks, although I would like both too. Thanks.:)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, guys.

Summing up posting # 15 : Romanian TT-33 in VG condition for $ 200.00.
"To buy, or not to buy ? That is the question ?":confused:
 
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JG has them for $179+shipping, so $200 is an OK price. Functionality ... it goes bang. Aesthetics and collectability ... will fall short compared to its cousins. Buy, or not to buy ... that's up to you. But $200 for a shooter is fair, you might do better buying one pre-owned.
 
Gun Master said:
Thanks for the info, guys.

Summing up posting # 15 : Romanian TT-33 in VG condition for $ 200.00.
"To buy, or not to buy ? That is the question ?":confused:
Click to expand...

I have one of the J&G Romanian Tokarevs, and I love it. It's finish isn't fantastic, but the fit is just fine, and so far has been completely reliable. If you're wanting to get a Tokarev to shoot, I highly recommend it. If you're getting one to collect, not so much.
 
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