reading aljazeera: stuff for thought

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That must be why the Arab states' actions were condemned as illegal aggression by the US, the USSR, and the UN Secretary-General and supported as legitimate only by the People's Republic of China.

The USSR and the UN Secretary General condemned the Arab states' action as being illegal aggression because they agree with your position. Right.

No, they didn't. They issued a general call for peace that applied to both Israel and the Arab states at the same time. All of the UN resolutions relating to that subject are here: http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/qpal/

I've searched every one and have not found the one-sided condemnation you speak of. Could you please cite the resolution that condemns arab aggression in specific terms, and supports the Israeli government?


At the time of the 1948 war, I can find exactly one nation that accepted the Arab states' action as legitimate. The People's Republic of China. And, of course, the nations that were bent on genocide, the Arab nations.

I'm going to have to ask for a source on that too. Neither the Avalon project records nor the UN's website on Palestine has any such document. I did cite above, however, the UN agreement to a partitioned state with borders much smaller than those that Israel came to occupy. Could you show me what I'm missing?

And if you look at the resolutions for every war following the 1948 war...it's also no contest: Only the US is on the side of Israel.
 
2 things:

1. land siezed in warfare has ALWAYS been annexed. it happens all over the world, even today. sometimes its even between relatively large countries - take the dispute over kashmir, for instance. whoever has got boots on the ground has got control of it.

why does the UN and all those toothless dogs make up these laws about what can and cannot be done in war? only because they wanted to avoid nuclear war. nobody gives a flying hoot what non-nuke countries do. the only reason why after decades and centuries of fighting over kashmire people care about it today is because both india and paki have nukes and they are both involved in bush's WOT.

2.
After 1000 years, when the US had become primarily chinese and chinese speaking, you're darned straight it would. If you have no concept of water under the bridge, then you have to believe that the US and all of Europe's governments have absolutely no right to exist whatsoever.

so in by this argument, all the israelis have to do is keep control of what's theirs for another oh... 944 years? well, it looks like they're planning to do just that.

...

from my standpoint, one of a people who have always throughout history been forced to flee from one battle, disaster, or famine, what israel has done is defend herself, make palestine pay for having the stupidity to try to kill her, and then - and only then - making a poor choice in defining the way which it will then live with the rest of palestine. we all know israel is wealthy. it may smack of anti-semitism, but we all do know that jews really do have controlling shares in big businesses all over the world. no, they may not control the world, but they do own a good deal of it. can't they find a way to use their wealth to buy the friendship of the palestinians? or does it always have to be a battle of pride?
 
1. land siezed in warfare has ALWAYS been annexed. it happens all over the world, even today. sometimes its even between relatively large countries - take the dispute over kashmir, for instance. whoever has got boots on the ground has got control of it.

Wrong. Colonialism failed, and Europe has a long legal tradition of respecting the land rights of inhabitants. Note that Napoleon's defeat and Hitler's defeat didn't leave the British and America with new states.

Here's what the UN Security Council says about Israel's land seizures, by a vote of 12-0:

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/db942872b9eae454852560f6005a76fb/ba123cded3ea84a5852560e50077c2dc!OpenDocument

so in by this argument, all the israelis have to do is keep control of what's theirs for another oh... 944 years? well, it looks like they're planning to do just that.

In 944 years, it is virtually certain that no political institution which exists today will exist. The world will be different, and we'll deal with that when it happens...there's a difference between trying to reach back 1000 years to remedy an injustice, and dealing with it when it's presently on the table. Just as it is silly to try and reach back to punish the germanic hordes for invading Europe, it's silly to blame the Palestinian inhabitants of modern times for the Arab conquests (which, ironically, saved the Jews and several christian minorities from extinction.)

from my standpoint, one of a people who have always throughout history been forced to flee from one battle, disaster, or famine, what israel has done is defend herself, make palestine pay for having the stupidity to try to kill her, and then - and only then - making a poor choice in defining the way which it will then live with the rest of palestine

First, Palestine wasn't trying to "kill her" because she didn't exist. A bunch of illegal immigrants founded Israel inside of Palestine's land, which of course created a problem, but it seems that most Palestinians would've accepted a partition. And that would be good...the Jewish people had been abused worldwide and did need somewhere to be safe, and even though illegitimate, a functioning state was formed rather quickly in the former Palestine. This might have been water under the bridge by now except....

....that it was hardly just a "poor choice" to ignore all international and local agreement, and invade the rest of the territory, killing or expelling everyone who got in the way. That act is directly responsible for the overwhelming hatred and radicalism that exists today, and it's going to take a long time and a lot of honesty about the past to remedy the situation.

can't they find a way to use their wealth to buy the friendship of the palestinians? or does it always have to be a battle of pride?

That's all I'm advocating. Relinquishing at least a significant portion of the land that was promised for Arab rule under the original UN agreements, and compensating the refugees who left or were expelled from their homes to camps around the arab world would do much to set us all on a course for coexistence. But given the level of denial in the US and Israel about just what happened in 48, 67, and 73....that's not likely to happen anytime soon, unfortunately.
 
Note that Napoleon's defeat and Hitler's defeat didn't leave the British and America with new states.

You will pick and choose won't you? Tell me that the defeat of the Axis powers did not leave the USSR with annexed, conquered territory. Tell the Japanese that Russia doesn't occupy Japanese territory to this day.

The British annexed the Cape Colony in Africa as a direct result of its participation in the Napoleonic Wars. Once again, check the record.

It's amazing that the things you leave out are the things that don't support your position.

About the only thing way that America participated in the Napoleonic Wars was the War of 1812 could be considered a peripheral conflict to the Napoleonic Wars. The result of that war was not to gain additional territory for the US. However, if we had not prevailed over the British, we would have likely lost the Louisiana Purchase to occupation by Britain.
 
You will pick and choose won't you? Tell me that the defeat of the Axis powers did not leave the USSR with annexed, conquered territory. Tell the Japanese that Russia doesn't occupy Japanese territory to this day.

Good examples: because annexation was universally regarded as illegitimate, the Eastern bloc states always had 'independent" puppet governments that supposedly freely allied with Russia.

The Kuril Islands dispute isn't settled on either side, and it's more water rights than land....so that's not really relevant.

The British annexed the Cape Colony in Africa as a direct result of its participation in the Napoleonic Wars. Once again, check the record.

See above. All the western powers in Europe tried to establish strong colonies, and the system as a whole was a total failure.

It's amazing that the things you leave out are the things that don't support your position.

I've included plenty of documentation on the international recognition that supports my claims about the situation in Palestine and Israel. Did you find those documents proving that no one supported the Arab states except for China?
 
The codemnation of the Arab states was not by the UN general assembly. It was by the State Department of the US, the Foreign Ministry of the USSR, and the Secretary-General of the UN.
 
The codemnation of the Arab states was not by the UN general assembly. It was by the State Department of the US, the Foreign Ministry of the USSR, and the Secretary-General of the UN.

Do you have a citation to the documents that show this?

All of the above participated in the UN resolutions outlining the partition agreement and condemning the later illegal land seizures...
 
The Arabs were blunt in taking responsibility for starting the war. Jamal Husseini told the Security Council on April 16, 1948:

The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight. Security Council Official Records, S/Agenda/58, (April 16, 1948), p. 19.

How about out of the mouth of their one of their own representatives speaking to the UN Security Council? Exact source reference. Tell me, why didn't the Arab representative deny that the Arabs had started the war? It was in the Arabs' interest to do so. The reaon is as he had stated, the Arab nations told the entire world that they would destroy Israel and start the war. From the mouth of an official Arab representative, speaking to the UN Security Council in 1948, directly and bluntly contradicting your position.
 
Tell me, why didn't the Arab representative deny that the Arabs had started the war? It was in the Arabs' interest to do so. The reaon is as he had stated, the Arab nations told the entire world that they would destroy Israel and start the war.

This is an odd quote, because it's dated before Israel's declaration of independence. How do you destroy a country that doesn't officially exist yet?

I'm searching now, and will update this post if I can find the primary source. What you posted is apparently only available (judging by the secondary source text you included in the quote) from www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org, and is not directly from the text of the Security Council records. If you have an online cite to the actual records, that would be much appreciated.

Looks like I'll have to take a trip to the library to check the source out. In the meantime, here's the resolution the Security council passed one day after that testimony:

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/un/scres046.htm

Being that Israel had not yet declared independence, I think said declaration a few months later was pretty obviously a violation of (d):

(d) Refrain, pending further consideration of the future government of Palestine by the General Assembly, from any political activity which might prejudice the rights, claims, or position of either community;

And on top of this....did you get those statements by the Secretary General, USSR, and US representatives?
 
Quote:
we all know israel is wealthy. it may smack of anti-semitism, but we all do know that jews really do have controlling shares in big businesses all over the world. no, they may not control the world, but they do own a good deal of it. can't they find a way to use their wealth to buy the friendship of the palestinians? or does it always have to be a battle of pride? (Silverlance)
______________________________________________________________

Silverlance, I know you are not anti-semitic.

As a group, Jews are more affluent, because of the values I mentioned in earlier posts, not because we are a cabal of international financiers.

And although I am certain that Jewish wealth and share ownership is higher per capita, I don't think it's quite what you think it is. If it is, then I am p/ssed! 'cause someone stole MY share!


Other groups, such as overseas Chinese and Indians also have higher IQ, more professionals and business people, higher per capita income and more wealth than the mainstream.

It's just that in our case, until the re-birth of Israel, ALL of us were ALWAYS "overseas" (grin).

Be that as it may, my beef with Israel is that she is far too often making overtures to the Arabs -- with very little except dead and crippled Jews to show for it. That is why I believe that only military strength can solve the problem.

They do use their strength, but only, it seems to me, when things get desperate. They need to take the initiative once and for all and not just repel attacks.


As for gestures of goodwill, Israel is the only side that makes them. The Arabs don't and almost always spit on the hand that Israel extends. When agreement (Hudna) are made, they're like our treaties with the Soviet Union. The Arabs immediately abrogate their agreements, the Israelis do their best to keep theirs.

Israel offered, as I mentioned, to work with the Arabs to end the refugee camps. Of course the Arabs want the Pals in misery, to use them against Israel. They refused any money or help for this problem.

The latest example of Arab intransigence is particulary galling to me.


Although I was adamantly against ripping Jews out of their homes and giving the land to the terrorist enemy who had killed and maimed them, the Israeli government didn't ask me.


Some naive, but wealthy American Jews, who really believed that the "disengagement" could produce a good result -- they came up with 14 million dollars to buy the Gush Katif greenhouses in order to hand them over, intact, to the Pals (the very idea makes me sick). Their idea was to creat "good-will" among the Pals, and to give them the means to continue the employment of the 12,000 (!) Arabs who had earned their living working in these green-houses.

When the Jews came to Gush Katif, 30 years ago, there was nothing but sand-dunes there. The Arabs thought this area "cursed". The Jews struggled until they came up with the idea of green houses and ended by exporting flowers to Holland(!) and exotic fruit to Europe. They invented drip irrigation in Gush Katif. They produced a significant percentage of israel's exports.

What did the Arabs do with this gift? They tore up the green houses, ransacked them for glass, plumbing parts, etc. and then set fire to what remained. Just like they burned the synagogues, when they came storming in. (So why can't we, then, burn the Al Aksa mosque??)


My tough stance against the Arabs is not because I just hate them for no reason. I have followed events in this area for years, now.

NOTHING ever works with them except force.


Israel had just relaxed checkpoints and began allowing Arabs to travel the roads in the West Bank again. Another stupid "good-will" gesture.

Within days 3 Israeli civilians (a 15 year old boy and 2 women in their early 20's -- they were waiting at a way-station for drivers to pick them up -- hitch-hiking) were shot to death and 6 wounded by these lovely people.

So the IDF reverses the relaxations and bans Aabs from the main roads, again.

The Arabs immediately scream (for the nth time) that Israel is practising Apartheid(!). What would you do?


These are just tiny samples of what goes on there constantly.


Shootinstudent and Kurush and others who argue as they do, say they really support Israel but want "fairness" for the Arabs.

Sorry, it doesn't wash. If they don't know what would happen to Israel if their policies were followed then they are stupid, indeed.

And I don't believe for one moment that they are stupid.


matis
 
Update on sources:

Byron, I checked your quote and it is accurate, although out of context. It's part of a long series of speeches, where Russia (siding with the Jewish Agency), argues against a truce, against a ban on immigration, and against a ban on arms importation into Palestine. The Jewish Agency representative joined him in rejecting the truce, anti-immigration, and anti-arms provisions of the April 1st resolution.

In contrast, Husseini repeatedly agrees to secure the Arab side from immigration if Jewish immigration is halted, and presses for a truce, so that the land claims can be sorted out via further UN action. His above posted quote is a direct response to what he calls "terrorist gangs" who massacred a few hundred Palestinian families in the Jerusalem area, and he ties the attacks on the Zionist militias to illegal immigration and their attacks on Palestinian Arab agents of control. "We did start it" means "We refuse to allow foreign militias to take over our land" to Husseini.
 
Be that as it may, my beef with Israel is that she is far too often making overtures to the Arabs -- with very little except dead and crippled Jews to show for it. That is why I believe that only military strength can solve the problem.

Matis, please list specifically the overtures made by the Israelis, and how many of them were implemented.
 
It's part of a long series of speeches, where Russia (siding with the Jewish Agency), argues against a truce, against a ban on immigration, and against a ban on arms importation into Palestine.

But you said that no nation ever supported Israel in 1948 but the US!

Right,repeated calls to kill all the Jews, in the name of Moslem brotherhood, is simply a statement signifying a determination to defend the homeland against foreign militias. Thank you for decoding that. What part of killing old people, women, children, and babies equated with defending against foreign militias? Oh, I know, the babies would have grown up and joined the foreign militia. The women would have produced more future militia members, and the old people should be punished for producing current militial members. The calls for genocide make perfect sense in the Arabs' search for justice, now. Thank you for enlightening me.
 
But you said that no nation ever supported Israel in 1948 but the US!

It didn't. You should read the Russian representatives speech. There was no Israel at that time, and what Russia supported was no end to the warfare. That of course changed, as Russia joined the rest of the world in labelling subsequent actions by the state of Israel.

Right,repeated calls to kill all the Jews, in the name of Moslem brotherhood, is simply a statemnent signifying a determination to defend the homeland against foreign militias.

Muslim Brotherhood is an Egyptian movement, as violently opposed to Egypt's government as it is to Israel's.

But no, no such calls for genocide exist in the UN debates. The representative of the Arabs at the UN, Husseini, called repeatedly for enforcement of the truce, immigration ban, and arms ban.

What part of killing old people, women, children, and babies equated with defending against foreign militias?

None. All terrorist acts of this sort are wrong and to be condemned, including those carried out by Arab gunmen against Jews in Palestine. The point here is that the Israelis did it too (repeatedly), and that the Arabs were also attacking Jewish armies....so not everyone was a terrorist who fought against the state of Israel, just like not every Zionist militia killed muslim women and children.

In contrast, every person who fought for the state of Israel in Palestine was a part of a religious rebellion, supported through immigration, against the Arabs who had been born there.

The calls for genocide make perfect sense in the Arabs' search for justice, now. Thank you for enlightening me.

I have repeatedly condemned both calls for genocide and attacks on civilians. Just as some folks (like Matis) on the Israeli side think the answer is to wipe out all Arabs in Palestine, some Arabs are radical...this is a problem that both peoples have, and there are acts of terrorism evidenced on both sides, past, present, and unfortunately most likely future. If you can't condemn all Jews for what Amir did to Rabin and for things like the shooter who gunned down about 30 people in a mosque, then you can't condemn all Arabs for what the criminal terrorists do either.

I think, to get back to the first post, aljazeera types will only lose their audiences when we stop treating whole populations based on the acts of a few, and start considering what will be the most fair solution possible for both sides of this conflict.
 
The Palestinians have been playing victim for too long.

With the millions maybe billions in aid they have recieved they could have built Paradise on earth.

Instead their corrupt leaders steal the money while preaching against the zionists and americans who get the blame for all their cultural and societal failures.

If all the Isralies left tomorrow it would take no time at all for all of Israel to become one big slum. And the Isralies and Americans would still get the blame for pulling out all their capital.

Why don't they turn the west bank into a Arab/Muslim vacation spot? Why is it everyone elses responsibility to make them succeed? Is there no spirit other than hatred in them?
 
GoRon,

The Palestinians haven't really received that much financial aid from anyone. Check. They do have a very bad problem with corrupt officials.

They don't control the West Bank. Israel does. Thus they would have a very hard time turning it into Paradise or even a vacation spot.
 
This year, the Palestinians are due to receive $200 million in U.S. funds on top of more than $1 billion which the European Union and the Arab League provide directly to Arafat and the Authority.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,90863,00.html
This is from a 2003 AP article, how many years did they recieve such large amounts of money with nothing to show for it?

Estimates are that the Palestinians have received up to $10 billion in international support since 1993. According to Nigel Roberts of the World Bank, this is ‘...the highest per capita aid transfer in the history of foreign aid anywhere.’
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17188
This article itself points out that the aid is only enough to cover 25% of their budget, but really that is a lot of money.

They don't control the West Bank. Israel does. Thus they would have a very hard time turning it into Paradise or even a vacation spot.
I'll cede you that. Although if money was spent responsibly over the years (instead of dissapearing into secret accounts) the lot of the average Palestinian would be much better. Instead of funding terrorists and uprisings they could do something unique like build markets or schools.
 
This is from a 2003 AP article, how many years did they recieve such large amounts of money with nothing to show for it?

I think you are assuming the Palestinians have bee receiving assistance for a much longer period than they actually have. Granted-much of what they have received has been diverted. But out of what has been used appropriately-remember it the next time you hear the Israelis have destroyed a Palestinian police station in retaliation. The station was built with the aid money. A modest sized station will cost several million dollars.

The Richmond County Law Enforcement Center in Augusta, Georgia cost 30 or 40 million dollars twenty years ago. It needs to be replaced.

Consider the costs of a local highway project. Then take a look at the road net in Gaza. Even if they manage to get rid of the corruption, it will still take a good bit of time to see results when you have to rebuild an entire infrastructure.

On the other hand, if the Palestinians destroyed that greenhouse complex that had been purchased for them as a gift...they need to learn to defecate outside their nest. That complex would have been a major source of foreign exchange for them.
 
Arab Lies; Gullible Jews...

From www.freeman.org


"Arab Lies, Gullible Jews, Passionate Anti-Semites"

by Jack Berger





The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism."—Zahir Muhsein, PLO executive committee member, in an interview with the Dutch newspaper "Trouw," March 31, 1977.



Reread that simple, concise statement and let it sink in. The only Palestinians that existed in the pan-Arab mindset prior to 1967 were the Palestinian Jews. Arabs were Arabs. Professor Walid Phares of Florida International University writes: "In the early years of the Tawheed (Islamic conquest of the Arabian peninsula), a Muslim concept was devised to achieve success against the enemy, Al-Taqiya. Al-Taqiya, from the verb Ittaqu, means linguistically dodge the threat. Politically it means simulate whatever status you need in order to win the war against the enemy…both Jewish and Christian."



As the Muslim cleric Abu Hamid al-Ghazzali, considered the greatest Moslem after Mohammed, wrote, "If a lie is the only way to obtain a good result, it is permitted. We must lie when truth leads to unpleasant results." (Jerusalem Post, March 1, 1997) And again, as we look at history without an agenda,



In March 1946 the Arab office in Jerusalem submitted evidence to the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry entitled, "The Arab Case for Palestine" which states in part, "Geographically Palestine is part of Syria; its indigenous inhabitants belong to the Syrian branch of the Arab family of nations, all their cultural and tradition link them to other Arab peoples….Indeed, the term "Palestinians" during the Mandatory period was used to refer to Jews rebuilding the Jewish National Home. The English language Jewish community daily newspaper now known as The Jerusalem Post, was until Israel's independence in 1948 The Palestine Post. And the Israeli Philharmonic Orchestra was called until 1948 the Palestine Philharmonic Orchestra. (Harris Schoenberg, A Mandate For Terror, 1989, pages 14-15)



In 1967 the West Bank and East Jerusalem were captured from Jordan's King Hussein, and Gaza was captured from the Egyptians—and neither was taken from today's "Palestinians." From 1948 until after 1967, there was no outcry for Palestinian statehood on the part of the mythical "Palestinian refugees."

Joseph Farah, in "Myths of the Middle East," writes:



The truth is that Palestine is no more real than Never-Never Land. The first time the name was used was in 70 A.D. when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine. The name was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to add insult to injury. They also tried to change the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, but that had even less staying power. Palestine has never existed—before or since—as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.



There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass [after the demise of the 400-year Ottoman Empire]. (WorldNetDaily, October 11, 2000)



And in a miraculous conversion, leftist historian Benny Morris, in a January 9, 2004 Haaretz interview, stated:



The majority of those who call themselves Palestinian refugees never left the boundaries of the western Land of Israel in 1948. This has frightening significance for leftist intellectuals [fabricators] because it means the myth of Palestinian "exile" is false, and as a result, the "right of return" means nothing.



If you repeat the lie often enough, people will begin to believe it, and so they have. A people has been created that never existed in history. Al-Taqiya—the art of the lie…a way for Israel-bashers terrorist-appeasers, the passionate anti-Semites, to assuage their hatred and rationalize that the Jews today are no different than what we've done to them over the past 2000 years. Measure for measure. Given power and freedom, Jews act just like us. So what if their Old Testament says that they are G-d's treasured people. But the people who actually confer that special status on the Jews are in reality the anti-Semites and Jew-haters who can't seem to get Jews out of their collective consciousness.

Replacement theology posits the return of the Jews to our Promised Land in 1948 as something that wasn't supposed to happen. Christianity had claimed to replace the Jews as G-d's chosen, and Islam claimed to replace both Christianity and Judaism as G-d's chosen. For the anti-Semites and Jew-haters of the world, their replacement theology went out the window on May 14, 1948, yet it took the Vatican until 1994 to recognize the State of Israel. The Vatican recognized a non-people, the "Palestinians," in 1982, but for 46 years sought to de-legitimize the reestablished State of Israel.…Enter the "Palestinian refugees forced from their homes of 1948." But there is a problem—one that is so obvious that it defies rewriting by post-1948 revisionist historians…no propaganda, no jingle of rusty keys to homes that never were—just the obvious facts. Shmuel (Samuel) Katz, author of Battleground (1973), writes:



The fabrication can most easily be detected by the simple circumstance that at the time the alleged expulsion of the Arabs by Zionists was in progress, nobody noticed it. Foreign newspapermen abounded in the country…but even those most hostile to the Jews saw nothing to suggest that the flight [of the Arabs] was not voluntary. In the three months that the major part of the flight took place, the London Times, a newspaper most notably hostile to Zionism, published 11 leading articles on the situation in Palestine, in addition to extensive news reports. In none was there even a remote hint that the Zionists were driving Arabs from their homes….Even more pertinent: No Arab spokesman made such a charge. At the height of the flight, the Palestinian Arabs' chief U.N. representative, Jamal Husseini, made a long political statement (on April 27, 1948) that was not lacking in hostility toward the Zionists; [but] he did not mention refugees…. The secretary-general of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, made a fiercely worded political statement on Palestine; it contained not a word about refugees….When, four months after the [war began], the prospect of the flightlings' returning "in a few weeks" had faded, there were some recriminations. Emil Ghoury, a member of the Palestinian Arabs' national leadership, said in an interview with the Beirut Daily Telegraph: "The fact that there are these [Arab] refugees is the direct consequence of the action of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish state. The Arab states agreed upon this policy unanimously, and they must share in the solution of the problem."



Some Arabs left because of their leaders' directives, and some stayed. But in fact, those who had lived in Palestine were not owners forced from their land—they were tenant farmers, peasants and squatters on land whose rights were given to absentee Arab landlords representing the interests of the Ottoman Turks in Constantinople. The Ottoman Empire controlled the land in Palestine for 400 years. Arab intermediaries had acquired their interests to the land as local tax collectors for Constantinople according to the Ottoman Land Code of 1858. The Arab tenant-farmers or squatters never owned the land they now claim as their land "from time immemorial," So says no less a scholar than Palestinian historian Rashid Khalidi in Blaming the Victims (page 214). In his in-depth narrative entitled, "The "Palestinian Peasant Resistance to Zionism," referring to the provisions of the Ottoman Land Code of 1858, Khalidi writes:



Jews often purchased land from an absentee landlord, [which led] to the expulsion of tenant cultivators….The land concerned had formerly been sparsely populated or uncultivated….But fellahin [Arab peasants] with long-standing rights of tenure [not ownership] were displaced in the process of Jewish settlement [ownership]. The fellahin naturally considered the land to be theirs and often discovered that they had ceased to be owners [which they never were] only when the land was sold to Jewish settlers by an absentee landlord who had acquired it in the decades following the implementation of the 1858 land law. (page 214) (Emphasis added.)



Yet, interestingly, corroborating the findings from Shmuel Katz's exhaustive study of various news sources is our very own less-than-Israel-loving Chicago Tribune. The Tribune was at that time run by Col. Robert R. McCormick, also not particularly fond of Jews. If, as some believe, the Tribune is biased today, it was worse under McCormick's reign, and so an associate of mine spent over two months at the Harold Washington Library in Chicago, combing through every back-issue of the Tribune from January 1, 1947 through December 31, 1949, photocopying each and every article (over 600) about Palestine and the Middle East. It was a fascinating adventure.



Between 1947 and 1949, The Tribune had its very own Middle East foreign correspondent in Palestine, a company man by the name of E. R. Noderer. According to the Tribune archives, Col. Robert R. McCormick, editor and publisher of the Tribune, awarded Noderer a $500 bonus in December, 1942 for "outstanding work on the battle front" (in New Guinea). He was one of the Tribune's most valued foreign correspondents and a loyalist when it came to the Tribune agenda. Quoting from the Tribune's own archives, "Norderer was in Palestine for the Jewish-Arab war, which saw the birth of the state of Israel. He was in Jerusalem when it was besieged for over 30 days by the Arabs [not the Palestinians]." (Emphasis added.) He was there, witnessing and reporting


events as they unfolded. In addition to Norderer, there were numerous dispatches from Associated Press (AP) and United Press International (UPI). They too were there with their reporters. And in over 600 articles in the Tribune, from all these sources over a three-year period—not one report—not one sentence—about the Palestinian Jews (as they were referred to) throwing the Arabs (as they were referred to) out of the country. The only sentence that even referred to Arabs leaving (and this was a month after the fraud of Deir Yassin on April 9, 1948) was written by Norderer on May 10, 1948, under the headline, "Palestine Jews Say Their Star Rose on Jan. 15." (January 15 is when the British Army left Tel Aviv.) Norderer writes: "One hundred fifty thousand Arabs were estimated [perhaps inflated] to have left the areas of Palestine [the original borders] assigned to the Jews in the partition plan." That's it, folks! From over 600 articles that appeared in the Chicago Tribune, one line from the Tribune and nothing from AP or UPI! Wouldn't you think that if this huge, brutal, forced expulsion of the poor, defenseless "Palestinians" out of their own country at the hands of the evil Jews had really occurred, as sworn to in Palestinian "eyewitness accounts," it would be considered newsworthy by the esteemed Chicago Tribune or at least one out of three independent, anti-Israel, anti-Jewish news sources? Do you believe these news sources would conspire to keep such an expulsion secret? Did these news bureaus suddenly morph into lovers of Zion? Why is it that all the "accounts" of the brutality inflicted on the poor, displaced "Palestinians" seem to have been written by "historians" after 1967? Where were the poor, displaced "Palestinians" from 1948 through 1967, when Jordan occupied the West Bank and Egypt occupied Gaza? Al-Taqiya!


cont'd next post
 
Arab Lies; Gullible Jews... (cont'd)

(continued from www.freeman.org


And then there is the litany of hysterical eyewitness accounts of Jews "massacring Palestinians" in 1948. A battle, in order to qualify as a massacre, is "the merciless killing of a large number of people" (Webster's Dictionary), like the massacre of defenseless religious Jews in Hebron in 1929—and unlike the recent "virtual massacre" in Jenin, in which it was initially reported by hysterical "Palestinian" talking heads, an eager CNN and the usual suspects, that "over 1000 innocent Palestinians were murdered!" This "massacre," backed up by legions of Palestinians and their "eyewitness accounts," turned out to be a battle in which 52 armed Arab terrorists were killed along with 22 Israeli soldiers.



And so, during the War of Independence came heart-wrenching reports of a massacre on April 9, 1948, the infamous massacre at Deir Yassin. In the PBS special, "The Fifty Years' War," and in the accompanying book by the same name, written by Jihan El-Tawri and Aaron Bregman, the lie for the greater good—"Al-Taqiya"—reappears, as an Arab eye-witness recalls:



The following morning the surviving villagers [after the battle] went to a meeting with the National Committee, the local Palestinian leadership in Jerusalem. It was up to the committee to decide how they should handle what had happened. Mahmoud [Mahmoud Assad Yassini] remembers that the survivors were asked to exaggerate some aspects of the terrible events: "When we arrived in Jerusalem, we were taken to a hotel near the Damascus gate. We started asking each other who had been killed, who was alive. Then the leaders of the National Committee arrived, including Dr. Hussein Fakhri Al-Khalidi [head of the National Committee in Jerusalem]. He invited some of us to his headquarters. He said: ' We want you to say that the Jews slaughtered people, committed atrocities, raped, and stole gold.' He said you have to say this so that the Arab [not Palestinian] armies will finally make a move and come to liberate Palestine from the Jews."



Hazem Nusseibah, a senior program assistant for the Palestine Broadcasting Corporation, was also contacted by the National Committee. "Dr. Hussein Khalidi phoned me," he remembers, "and said we must alert the Arab countries to what is happening. I was sure there were no rapes, but we were shaken by the events." Ironically, it was Nusseibah's broadcast exaggerating the atrocities that triggered the mass exodus of Palestinians [Arabs] from their homes. He recalls: "We transmitted Dr. Hussein Fakhri Al-Khalidi's statement mentioning rape and this and that. It had a devasting impact on everyone in Palestine, and the exodus began….It was the biggest blunder that could have happened."



Abu Tawkif and Abu Mahmoud resent the way these distortions of the truth led to Arabs fleeing their homes. Mahmoud observes, "Dr. Hussein Fakhri Al-Khalidi was the one who caused the catastrophe. Instead of working in our favor, the propaganda worked in favor of the Jews. Whole villages and towns fled because of what they heard had happened in Deir Yassin." And while relating the story on PBS, Hazem Nusseibah and Dr. Hussein Khalidi can be seen chuckling with one another about how wrong they were in creating the lie of Deir Yassin [which] definitely caused the Arab population to run away every time they thought a Jewish soldier was coming near.



Jewish forces didn't rob, pillage, rape and murder Arabs. Some Arabs moved from one place to another per their own leaders' instructions; other Arabs left out of fear generated solely by the propaganda their own leaders circulated to besmirch the Jews. Yet it is clear from the reporting that the makeover from "Arabs" to "Palestinians" was hatched years later in the back rooms of Egypt in an Arab attempt to liberate Palestine 16 years after Israel was reestablished.



After taking control of Egypt, Gamal Abdul Nasser created two liberation organizations to spread Egyptian Pan-Arabism. One was called the National Liberation Front (FLN) to liberate Algeria. The second, the Palestine Liberation Organization, was founded so that Nasser could liberate Palestine for Egypt, not for the benefit of the "indigenous Palestinians." In 1964, Nasser hired an Egyptian by the name of Ahmed ash-Shuqairy to form and lead the PLO. Shuqairy, a lawyer, wrote the original Covenant, which "omitted any specific reference to a separate Palestinian Arab state. Article 24 stated explicitly that this organization shall not exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, the Gaza Strip, or the Himma area….The commitment of the PLO was simply to destroy Israel. It was not to liberate the West Bank and Gaza then under Arab rule, nor was it to establish a new Palestinian state." (A Mandate For Terror, page 16)



In 1969, after the Six Day War, Shuqairy quit his position, and shortly afterward an unemployed Egyptian civil engineer, at the age of 35, became a "Palestinian" and was appointed by Nasser to lead the PLO. His name was Abed a-Rauf Arafat al-Qudwah al-Husseini, later known as Yasser Arafat. Born in Cairo on August 24, 1929, his mother was a wealthy Egyptian from the prominent Abu-Saud family. Arafat's father had moved to Cairo in the early 1920s, over 25 years before the reestablishment of the State of Israel. There is no record of Arafat's father being forced out of Palestine in 1920 by either the British or the Jews. And so an unemployed native Egyptian found a new vocation as a Palestinian—Al-Taqiya!



And then there was the great "Palestinian" intellectual, the celebrated "Palestinian" professor at Columbia University, who poignantly waxed nostalgic about his early childhood years in Palestine and how his family was eventually forced by those damned Jews to leave Palestine—except that the "damned Jews" discovered that the esteemed Professor Edward Said never actually lived in Palestine! He too was from Cairo—an academic looking to become important, looking for a cause, masquerading as a poor, down-trodden Palestinian victim of the evil Jews. In real life, he grew up in the lap of luxury in Cairo.



His father, Wadie…emigrated in 1911 to the United States….At least nine years prior to his son's birth in 1935, however, Wadie Said was already residing permanently in Cairo, Egypt…according to the 1926 French edition of the Egyptian Directory….It was to Cairo that Edward Said's mother Hilda (Musa), of Lebanese origin, moved upon marrying his father in 1932, and it was in Cairo that the nuclear family continued to reside over the ensuing decades in a series of ever more elegant and spacious apartments, the last three of which were located in Cairo's best neighborhood on the island of Zamalek in the Nile River….[Not quite his standard line of, 'I was born in Jerusalem and spent most of my formative years there and, after 1948, when my entire family became refugees, in Egypt…' (Justus Reid Weiner, " 'My Beautiful Old House' and Other Fabrications by Edward Said," Commentary, September 1999)



Edward Said once said that, as a scholar, he had the intellectual responsibility "to speak the truth as plainly, directly, and honestly as possible," yet his autobiography, replete with fabrications calculated to advance his warped, morally bankrupt agenda, exposes him as nothing more than a skillful liar and a fraud. Said, together with Arafat, stars of the "Palestinian" cause, represented how a lie becomes truth when people have an agenda.


Passionate anti-Semites who manipulate historical facts will never allow the truth to abort their plans for our people. We've been at death's door many times over, but a remnant has always survived to continue our story to its next chapter. When a third of our people were in the graveyards of their golden medinah of Europe, as another third cowered in self-consciousness and fear of anti-Semitism here in America, and the balance were scattered in countries ready to finalize a solution for them—when the future looked like no future at all—G-d in his mercy heard our people and opened the gates to Eretz HaKodesh and Jews from around the world rushed to a barren land that nobody else really wanted. From the "displaced persons" camps of Europe, the desert towns in Arab countries, the shtetls of Poland and the gulags of Russia, from all the corners of the world, began an ingathering to a land that had never belonged to any other people…a land that welcomed our people back with love and miracles, and where non-Jews could almost be heard thinking, "Look what their G-d has done for them! How goodly are thy tents, O Jacob, thy dwelling places O Israel!" We returned to the land, "Am Chofshi B'Artzeinu"—to be a free Jewish people in our own land... "And I will bring you back to the land that I promised to your forefathers, and there I will make you a great people."



Nasser may have lost the battle in 1967, but with the cowardly pullout from Gaza, I hope he doesn't eventually win the war. With Katyushas now falling daily into Israel, Israel has encouraged her enemies into believing its end is near. Arab lies, gullible Jews, and a United Nations teeming with virulent, passionate anti-Semites! This year, as Yom Kippur comes to a close, honor your last words of the Neilah service with your first promise for the new year—make "Next Year in Jerusalem!" a reality…Your children and grandchildren deserve their gift of being a proud Jew in our own land given to us by our G-d.



Shana Tova, Jack Berger

****


shootinstudent, when Hitler called the Jews, "vermin", he was villifying an innocent people as part of the Nazi "Big Lie" (tell a big enough lie, often enough, etc.) strategy.

When, in prior posts, I called the Arabs "liers" and barbarians, I was NOT doing, as you said, what Hitler did; I was simply characterizing them accurately.

And I do NOT, as you wrote, advocate "wiping out the "Palestinians". I want Israel to use her military might to take care of the problem of the terrorist, lying barbarians who are constantly murdering her people.

And I want all hostile Arabs expelled from Greater Israel.


matis
 
And I do NOT, as you wrote, advocate "wiping out the "Palestinians". I want Israel to use her military might to take care of the problem of the terrorist, lying barbarians who are constantly murdering her people.

What you really did not do is list the non-military "concessions" implemented towards Palestinians. Remember, you claimed that all manner of "concession" had been tried and failed. I'd like to see them.


I can't believe I kept reading the article above after midway. It alleges a Catholic-Arab united conspiracy to destroy Israel, and is a perfect example of stretching some conspiracy theories, while presenting only one side of the story. Try this: Take the article you posted, and replace "arabs" with "Jews." How much does it resemble something aljazeera would post?

Continuing denial and a refusal to recognize the competing interests are going to make matters worse for Israel and America. If the west and its allies in Tel Aviv can prove that it's possible for the Arab Palestinians to get a fair deal from our side, that will take the lion's share of wind out of the sails of aljazeera's ship.
 
shootinstudent, can you for a moment separate the "Palestinian people" from such as Arafat, Hamas, and the rest of the terror gangs?

The US and Israel have forever been benign in attitude toward the people--the Arab "Joe Sixpack", if you will. But no matter what has ever been done, the terrorist actions against Israelis on the part of the Gangs has been unending. The goal is genocide. Period, exclamation point.

Look at a map of Israel. The longest dimension is roughly that from Georgetown, Texas, to San Antonio. The narrowest width, prior to the 1967 and 1973 wars, is ten miles. Ten! In those circumstances, trading land for peace in the face of genocidal aim is stark, raving insanity. Yet, that has been tried--and to no avail. Even today, the attacks continue--as they will until every last Israeli is dead.

It is absolute fact that the Israelis, in order to merely survive, cannot afford to lose even one battle. Not one.

I've watched and listened to the Arabs and their sycophants for some 57 years now. The lies have been unending, and time is proving that Dr. Goebbels was absolutely correct.

Art
 
Hey shootinstudent!
Take a look at how well the Palestinians are doing with their new land acquisition, the Gaza Strip. See how the newly empowered Islamo-Fascists are building hospitals, water treatment, irrigation, schools, businesses.
No? You can't see that?
Hmmmmm....... Must be Israel's fault. Oh, and George W. Bush's.
Maybe that they will start acting like a State when they have used up their supply of homicide bomb belts.
 
shootinstudent, can you for a moment separate the "Palestinian people" from such as Arafat, Hamas, and the rest of the terror gangs?

Yes, absolutely. That's what I meant to do when I repeatedly condemned Arab terror attacks, and said they shouldn't be allowed to speak for the whole Palestinian people.

The US and Israel have forever been benign in attitude toward the people--the Arab "Joe Sixpack", if you will. But no matter what has ever been done, the terrorist actions against Israelis on the part of the Gangs has been unending. The goal is genocide. Period, exclamation point.

This is exactly what I am disagreeing with. Israel was founded by an illegal immigrant army, literally, and the Jewish Agency (that's an official group) that existed before the state opposed all of the UN's cease fire and immigration bans. After that, Israel launched a preemptive strike that occupied (in 1967) the entire remaining scraps of land reserved under the UN resolutions for the Arabs. I'm really interested in knowing: What benign gestures have been made towards the whole Palestinian people by the Israeli state? How do we know what negotiation and peaceful measures will work or not when we've had nothing less than 50 years of heavy-handed military action, with absolutely no effort to recognize the political or territorial rights of the Arabs?

Ten! In those circumstances, trading land for peace in the face of genocidal aim is stark, raving insanity. Yet, that has been tried--and to no avail. Even today, the attacks continue--as they will until every last Israeli is dead.

My whole point is that it wouldn't be a trade: it'd be a return of land that was illegaly (according to every single UN resolution on the subject and the Geneva Conventions) seized. It has not ever been tried. Israel has never even come close to making a good faith withdrawal from any the post 67 areas, at least not until President Bush had pushed for it in Gaza over the past couple of years.

I've watched and listened to the Arabs and their sycophants for some 57 years now. The lies have been unending, and time is proving that Dr. Goebbels was absolutely correct.

Please separate the radicals who advocate genocide from the rest of the Palestinians.

In return, we should expect Palestinians to separate these people from the rest of the Jewish people:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6556766/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/25/newsid_4167000/4167929.stm
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/04/bus.shooting/

shermacman,

I'm continually amazed at people who will take a look at the Arab world, and then blame all Arabs for the situation. Palestine faced a rebellion in the 40's that stripped it of most of its land, and eventually all of its land. The palestinians for the most part live under military supervision, may lose their houses if a family member goes nuts and commits an act of terrorism, and have been dominated by Arab militant gangs (who rose to power specifically because of the Israeli rebellion in Palestine.)

They've been through all that, and now you're wondering why they don't have the most developed economy or political structure in the world? Maybe if they'd been allowed to have their own state from the beginning, and if the US hadn't been supporting radical governments elsewhere in the region (ie, Saudi Arabia, the officially Wahhabist state), we wouldn't have this problem now.

Just my opinion though, you're free to explain away those causes if you like.
 
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