Real Bummer - But, The System Works

[PRM]

Stopped at a LGS today and I saw a pristine pre-lock, 3 inch, heavy barrel Model 60 Smith & Wesson with target sights. The price was more than reasonable and I immediately started the purchase process. After a few minutes, the clerk stopped everything and removed the gun from the counter explaining it was a stolen gun and was flagged in the computer??? The local police showed up and took possession of it, stating it was stolen in IL back in 2010.

The store could not explain why this was not caught when they traded for it? They claimed it cleared the check a few days ago. But, at least the rightful owner will get it back. As for me, couple of hours wasted, and a little let down about the whole deal.

 

[newfalguy101]

Gunshop or pawnshop???

 

[PRM]

Largest gun store in the area. They said the gun was run when they took it in???

 

[mokin]

Definitely a bummer. Hopefully the gun will end up with the owner.

 

[silicosys4]

Must have been freshly stolen, and sold by the thief before the gun was reported.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Well, look at it this way...your actions apparently initiated the second check, which will result in the owner getting his lost firearm back.

Good on you!

Also, if there are any records of the sale to the LGS, perhaps the police will be able to follow up and nab the guy who stole it.

 

[PRM]

Well, look at it this way...your actions apparently initiated the second check, which will result in the owner getting his lost firearm back.

Good on you!

Also, if there are any records of the sale to the LGS, perhaps the police will be able to follow up and nab the guy who stole it.

All true. This LGS has a really good reputation and has been in business for a number of years. The only question I had was why the gun didn't hit when they took it in. The theft was 6 years ago. Doesn't matter, it's on its way back to IL. Hope the owner sees it again.

 

[kBob]

Likely because the local agency that took the initial report took six years to get it into the system.......

-kBob

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

PRM,
Another silver lining is that should the gun have cleared to you that day, and
then showed up as hot several years later when you went to sell/trade it,
you would not be stuck with the headache of attempting to go
back up the 'chain' of ownership trying to get your money back.

Because while it really is a good thing to see the gun returned, someone ends up out the money for a gun they paid for in good faith.
Without a receipt?, ouch.

Just sayin' ,JT

 

[200Apples]

.
PRM, I dig Model 60s. I too would feel very disappointed. Just for this, you'll now find one NIB somewhere! Hee.

The best of luck to you in the future.

 

[Old Fuff]

There is a problem with some Smith & Wesson's.

Used to be in the dark ages that they always stamped the serial number on the butt. There were some exceptions, but for this discussion we'll overlook them.

Then on the frame, behind the yoke (the hinge part the cylinder is attached to when it's swung out) was another number. This was an assembly number that had nothing to do with the serial.

But when stocks that wrapped around the bottom of the butt came out they decided to stamp the serial number where the assembly number used to be.

Unfortunately some folks that weren't up to date would get an older gun, and use the assembly number to "record it for the record," for what ever purpose.

So they're literally thousands (maybe tens of thousands) of Smith & Wesson's that are on various database's that may be registered with either the right or wrong number.

So in the present case it might have come clean when it was checked against one database, but revealed as stolen when checked against another.

To a degree this is also true of some other makes of guns. It would take a book to explain all of the possibilities.

 

[Dragon breath]

I bought a Glock 17 gen 3 from a pawn shop about a year ago. After I got it home I noticed the barrel serial number and the frame number where different. I checked my receipt and yup, The serial number on the receipt was the barrel number. I ran the frame number on the hotgunz website and it showed stolen. I went to the store and showed it to them. At first they didn't want to take it back saying I could have switched frames on them until the salesman looked at the gun a remembered seeing a deep scratch on the trigger guard. Then they gave me my money back plus $20 for gas.
Moral of the story is check that the serial number that is on your paperwork matches the gun before you leave the store.

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

Keep looking. The 3" Model 60 is a sweet revolver. I'm sure the owner will be glad to get his back.

 

[PRM]

The gun shop just called and the gun has been cleared. Some confusion about it being lost then found after reported stolen, still showing up as stolen??? They said the should have it back maybe today, no later than Monday.

If everything works out... I'll post pics of it.

 

[BSA1]

The main problem with NCIC is garage in, garage out.

The agency / department that enters the information is responsible of the accuracy of the information and removing from the NCIC system when the case is resolved. Apparently in the O.P.'s case the gun was entered as lost but the reporting agency never bothered to remove it from the system after the gun was recovered/found.

It gets even more confusing with criminal arrest and conviction histories.

 

[Old Fuff]

Moral of the story is check that the serial number that is on your paperwork matches the gun before you leave the store.

That, but it's just as important (and maybe more so) is to know which number is the manufacturer's serial number, where it is located, and if they're any letter prefixes or suffixes.

It is not helpful if the paperwork matches "a" number if it's the wrong one.

Gun control advocates are usually big supporters of gun registration, but if they knew how the records are collected, and by whom, and the massive irregularities and mistakes they'd have collective heart failure.

 

[Gottahaveone]

Coulda been worse. About 20 years ago when I lived in Colo, there was a pistol at the LGS that I wanted. The only way I could get it was to trade in a Colt Commander that I had bought about 2 years before from another LGS that was going out of business.

I started the paperwork while the clerk called in my trade. He was taking an awfully long time to come back and I was just about to ask what the issue was when two of Longmont's finest came in, pistols drawn, and started yelling at me to get on the ground.

At first I thought it was some type of prank, it just didn't register with me that they were real cops, and real serious.

I complied, they cuffed me up, and then told me that that pistol was recently stolen from the scene of a multiple homicide.

Fortunately, I had tucked the original receipt under the foam liner of the case I had it in. They started looking at the receipt, and then started apologizing and uncuffing me.

Turns out that when the clerk wrote down the sn to call it in, he transposed two of the numbers . The only good to come from it was the owner of the shop made me such a good deal after that that I was able to get the Gold Cup and still afford to keep my Commander.....

 

[200Apples]

.
Gottahaveone, are you freakin' serious? Wow. What an afternoon! Hahaha...

"And...", as the radio DJ used to say, "...the hits just keep on' comin'!". The twists and turns in this thread make my head spin. Heehaw! Holy Toledo, Ohio. It looks like PRM might get his Model 50 after all. :-D

 

[Gottahaveone]

Gottahaveone, are you freakin' serious? Wow. What an afternoon!

Yeah, I am. But I guess all's well that ends well. Those guys were just doing their job, based on the info they had. The store changed it's policy after that. They didn't write anything down anymore, they took the actual item to the phone with them......

 

[MedWheeler]

Probably just a simple case of being off a digit in the SN when they took it in; they ran a "5" instead of an "8", or something..

 

[PRM]

Well, its getting almost funny. Instead of the local PD, who has the gun returning it to the LGS, they have decided to mail it to Illinois so the agency who entered it in 2010 has hands on. Guess the family or an affidavit saying its not stolen won't work. You got to wonder what they will require of the family, since they are now in TN before releasing it. What looked like a couple of days last Saturday, is now weeks, maybe months away from being resolved. My gut tells me it will be a miracle if it ever gets back to TN. And, if it does, what shape will the mint little gun be in after being tossed around in evidence lockers, or stenciled with a dremel for identification.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Our tax dollars at work...again. That's a shame.

 

[ArkieVol]

Serial # errors...

So they're literally thousands (maybe tens of thousands) of Smith & Wesson's that are on various database's that may be registered with either the right or wrong number.

Not only S&W's. Working as detective in a burglary case, officers had recovered a Winchester .22 rifle and working only from their report I entered the "serial number" into NCIC, I got hits in 19 states! Went to the property room to look at the actual rifle and found that the so called serial number was the patent number.

Same mistake in twenty states.

Another case...guy from out of state had been robbed of $20,000 worth of jewelry and came in to report it. His story was a little odd so, while he was giving a statement, I went outside to check his car and the plates came back stolen.

Wasted a whole day confirming that he was the actual owner and his car had been stolen but he had found it on his own and neglected to notify the police.

 

[climbnjump]

Not only S&W's. Working as detective in a burglary case, officers had recovered a Winchester .22 rifle and working only from their report I entered the "serial number" into NCIC, I got hits in 19 states! Went to the property room to look at the actual rifle and found that the so called serial number was the patent number.

Many .22 rifles didn't have serial numbers prior to 1968. Not everyone is aware of that - apparently even some folks working in evidence rooms. So, expecting to FIND a serial number, they keep looking until finding a patent number and, "Yeah, that must be it!"...

 

[DaisyCutter]

Likely because the local agency that took the initial report took six years to get it into the system.......

Yeah, at my agency I'm the detective tasked with aging reports to the far extent of the statute of limitations before initially taking action.

It's standard operating procedure, and the only known method available that allows police to free up sufficient units to handle the high volume of priority barking dog complaints we get.