Real world issues with lead bullets in pistol calibers

[benzy2]

I'm looking to start shooting lead bullets in my centerfire pistols. I've read a bit about proper hardness for the round you shoot. I'm looking for what people have found to be actual issues or concerns when shooting handgun calibers with lead. I'm mostly looking at low pressure loads in 9mm, 45, and 38 special. It seems there are some real issues that should be given attention, but that maybe most of the worry people post is over done.

What really makes me question any issues of leading problems comes from the rimfire shooting I've done. The general rule there was outside of bench rest shooting, clean the action and chamber but leave the barrel alone until things go real south with accuracy. I have a rimfire rifle with a case worth through the barrel since last cleaning and nothing seems to have degraded accuracy wise. If leading were such a concern, I would have thought I would have seen it in that rifle. Now certainly in centerfire options you have bullets of the same caliber that need to be driven at vastly different velocities so there is more variation in bullet design/hardness for different use.

I'm looking for any advice or real world experience shooting a lot of lead bullets in 9mm/45acp/38 special. So much I've read is third hand knowledge which really makes me question its validity.

 

[rockhopper46038]

Honestly, I've all but 100% converted to lead in my pistols; .45ACP, .38 Super and 9mm. Yes, you want projectiles properly sized for your bore, but I haven't experienced leading problems at all.

 

[CZ9shooter]

Unless you get a lot of leading just follow your normal cleaning schedual. If you get unusual leading make make changes to your recipe, possibly including bullet diameter. As long as you dont try hot rodding cast bullets it will probably go well for you.

In the beginning I struggled with my 9mm loads. I am assuming due to its relativly high pressure. Didnt take long and I got it figured out. 38 special has been good from the start.

 

[mackg]

It's funny that you would bring rimfire up.

There was a (short) discussion on the castbulletassoc forum a while ago, wondering why they were so accurate since they were "wrong" by centerfire standards. We didn't have an answer, and I think some guys will have molds cut to match a 22 design and see what happens.

It's only when reading your post that I thought: "powder". Rimfire powders are apparently a big secret, since nobody's telling. I'll assume that they are rifle powders and that makers, having more knowledge and labs, match their bullets capabilities.

Now about reloading for handguns, I cast my own from range lead (over 95% rimfires and J's cores).
For non magnums, the only "problem" is to clean residues building up in the guns; barrels are mostly left with "lead dust" which can be wiped easily.
Some "match" (TiteGroup and Liquid Alox) caused quicker buildup and a 1911 barrel to catch 45 FN's noses.

Since you don't mention casting, will you buy them?

When I started reloading, my favorites were 3-D's swaged (RN's over SWC's); "soft" and a bit oversized.
Hard cast and hard lubed, that you're likely to find nowadays, left streaks of lead which bugged me but were probably harmless. I'll let others talk about extensive use with them.

 

[Havok7416]

Lead is great!

I shoot a lot of low pressure .38 Special loads with no major issues. I have one gun that seems to get dirtier than the other two, but all three are fed the same loads, so I'm not sure what that's about.

For 9mm and .45 ACP I shoot bullets with high-end charges. I did just recently start using coated lead bullets and I think they are great! This may be something you want to explore if you are worried about leading, although you shouldn't have any problems with plain lead either.

 

[orionengnr]

I've used more than "several", but not quite "many" thousand rounds of Missouri Bullet 200 gr SWC in .45acp, plus at least 1500 "Brand X" 200 gr SWCs in .45acp. And then 500-1000 each of .45LC, .41 Mag, 9mm, .380, and a couple hundred 10mm.

I've had no leading issues whatsoever.

From what I have read, using a too-hard bullet is the surest way to have leading problems. Second best way is to drive a soft bullet too fast.

Use the correct lead bullet for the load, and you will be fine. Missouri Bullet offers several different hardness levels for several of its calibers...if you have any doubts, check their website info, or contact them. BTW, great people to do business with.

Oh, and do some reading in the "Handloading and Reloading" sub-forum here on THR...lots of knowledgeable, helpful folks.

 

[Jim K]

I have fired thousands of rounds of lead bullets from both revolvers and auto pistols with no problems. The only note of caution is the claim that firing lead bullets in a Glock can cause a lead buildup in their factory barrel, resulting in high pressures and blown guns. That seems to be the case, though I am not clear what it is about that rifling that can't handle lead bullets. Nonetheless, be warned on that issue.

Jim

 

[LT.Diver]

Generaly speaking, when I keep my cast lead handloads under 1100 FPS I don't have any problems with leading.

 

[short barrel]

Lead is good, but hard cast lead is much better. Shoot pure lead and keep your velocity low, OR shoot hard cast lead and put your velocity wherever you want it. I think a flat point hard cast at respectable velocity is better than any JHP, for self defense or hunting.

My last handgun deer was shot from a tree stand. My gun was a 4 5/8 Blackhawk in 45Colt. The load was a healthy dose of 2400 under a 300 grain LBT. The buck had lain down at about 20 yards. At the shot behind his shoulder, he stood and then fell over.

Not saying that the hard cast lead for hunting means it's the best for self defense. No, I am saying that. I don't think you can do better.

 

[StrawHat]

There is more to shooting a cast bullet than the hardness. Matching the diameter of the bullet to the chamber maouth in a revolver or the throat in a pistol cna go a long way to reducing leading. Much of my shooting is with relatively soft lead and I have no problems with leading in revolvers or even in rifles. If I did, the first thing I would examine would be bullet fit.

 

[maxxhavoc]

From what I have read, using a too-hard bullet is the surest way to have leading problems. Second best way is to drive a soft bullet too fast.

This. If you buy hard cast and shoot light target loads, it will lead like crazy and can be a pain to clean. The bore does not seal properly with a too-light load.

If you run soft lead with hot loads, it is just as bad. If you buy hard cast, run them near full power after you work up the loads.

 

[benzy2]

Mackg, I will be buying. While casting is an option, I already debate on the time it takes to load and spending the extra time to cast would push me beyond the point I can justify. Maybe at a point where time is more available it will be a viable option.

My plans are to push loads that are firm but not hot. Not looking for ultra light loads nor overly hot, just a nice solid load that is about like a factory load. I'll need to look more into matching bullet sizes. The hardness is fairly simple to match but I'm not as certain on the sizing especially with multiple guns.

 

[dbmjr1]

I'm learning a lot on this subject, cause I have to.

I get free lead, as a by product of my job.

It's pure lead though. I have to melt it into ingots, then alloy for loading.

I've shot plenty of pure lead. Even at velocities low enough to watch the bullet go down range I would get some leading. I could still shoot several hundred rounds before accuracy fell off to the point I was missing plates. The problem with pure lead is it shrinks too much as it cools, resulting in undersized bullets.

What I've found:

You want the bullet to be a couple thousandths over size.

Softer lubes work better than hard lubes. All commercial cast bullets use hard lube.

Some alloying will go a long ways.

I'm running an alloy of 3% tin, 2% antimony and 95% lead. I can push these fairly fast out of a .38spl or a .45acp with no leading at all.

My bullets are all cast from Lee 6 cavity aluminum molds, in their 'Tumble Lube' design. I use Alox lube. I use Lee sizing dies .358 and .452.

Now I'm a newb, with only eight or nine years in the craft, but that's what I've figured out through trial and error.

 

[hdbiker]

I keep my .38's,.357's and .45ACP's cast lead bullets around 800 FPS.MY .44 mag cast bullets around 1100 FPS and have little or no leading .I've been mixing wheel weights with range lead in a 50/50 mixture with no problems.I tumble lube with liquid Alox for my lube. hdbiker

 

[Twiki357]

I’ve been shooting mostly my own cast lead for years. That’s 38, 357 mag, 44 mag, 9mm and 45 ACP. Primarily used wheel weight lead and I’ve never had a leading problem. But, I don’t load hot either.

 

[Ky Larry]

Just got done Aloxing 6,000 Valiant lead bullets in 9mm,10mm, and .357.Also Aloxed 1,000 Hornady lead .44 bullets. I shoot a lot of lead bullets.I keep the velocities mostly in the mid-range level and have no problems with leading.

What kind of pistols are you shooting? I don't want to open up an old can of worms, but I've heard certain kinds of pistols shouldn't use lead bullets. I've also heard this was B.S.

 

[benzy2]

The 38 will be in a couple Smiths, a Ruger GP100, a Colt trooper, and a Rossi 1892. The 9mm will be out of an M&P and an STI Spartan. The 45 will be in an STI Trojan. I've got a block in 9mm and 45 but hear both sides of that debate. I'd probably buy a new barrel if I plan to shoot them through the clocks just to play it safe. I'm not sold it would be unsafe but I also don't want to press my luck to save a buck or two.

 

[GLOOB]

I'm looking for any advice or real world experience shooting a lot of lead bullets in 9mm/45acp/38 special. So much I've read is third hand knowledge which really makes me question its validity.

IMO, if you want to know one thing about bullet size it's too small = bad. A bullet that is significantly undersize will always lead the bore.

Hardness, well there are a couple ways to looks at it. If you make a bullet on the soft side, it will lead like crazy if you screw up on size. OTOH, if it's just slightly too small, it can bump up and seal the bore.

If you make a bullet on the harder end, it will won't be as bad when the fit is off. But it won't bump up if it's slightly too small.

So while there a point where a bullet is definitely too soft or definitely too hard, there's no "just right" hardness for a caliber. You can swing in either direction for quite a ways and still have perfectly good bullets. It depends on which strategy you want to pursue. Once you figure out what shoots in your guns, it won't matter what the BHN is. You'll just make/buy more of it.

The other real world advice is going back to size. If your bullets are 0.001+ bigger than the bore, you are done worrying about size, right? Nope. Your goal is to have the bullet slightly larger than the bore by the time it gets into the bore and to remain a tight fit through the end of the muzzle. If you have leading, check for tight cylinder throats, bore constrictions, and for case swaging. 9mm, in particular is relatively susceptible to case swaging.

Just because your bullets start out the right size doesn't mean they will make it into the barrel, nor all the way to the muzzle, in the way you intended. Heck, they may not even make it into the case.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I shoot between 12 and 20 thousand rounds on an average year. At least 90% of it is lead. Mostly MBC or Lasercast. Lead is a game. You do it right, meaning the right sized bullets and a decent powder choice you win. Great results. But like every game there is a certain level of chance involved. Sometimes, some guns just don't like lead. I don't know why but they do.

So you can have cheaper bullets and shoot a lot by shooting lead or shoot few bullets of jacketed with the same amount of money. I prefer to shoot not look at my pretty jacketed bullets.

 

[stubbicatt]

FWIW, I used to shoot a Model 19 Smith and Wesson and a Marlin lever gun in the same caliber. I found that I had to size to .357 for revolver bullets and .358 for lever gun bullets. The prudent thing may have been to open the cylinder mouths a bit, but I chose not to do this.

I used a Lyman cowboy mould at about 160 grains with a big fat deep lube groove, with my home made bullet lube, and had zero leading in either firearm. Cleanup was a breeze too. The alloy was wheel weights or 20 to 1 if it was left in the pot from the BPCR bullets I was using.

Proper alloy, proper sizing, and proper lube will make your outings uneventful. I have found that to date the lube that comes on commercial cast bullets doesn't work all that well.

 

[MCgunner]

I've been casting for nearly 40 years. I used to get wheel weights. Good hardness. Then,, I started using range scrap, no problems with that, either. Now, I buy chilled shot as I don't have a good source of anything else. Still a lot cheaper than buying bullets.

The one problem I had was buildup of lead at the forcing cone of my pencil barrel Smith M10 caused the forcing cone to split. Lesson learned. Installed a heavy barrel I got a good price on and clean it thoroughly after shooting, now, with Chore Boy. The K frames are prone to this owing to the design, flat bottom forcing cone is a weak point.

 

[bluetopper]

Commercial hard cast lead bullets is all I shoot and I shoot a lot. 9mm, 38, 357 at max charges, 44 Mag at max charges, 45acp, 500 Mag gas check. I just never see a leading problem......ever.

 

[TRX]

Leading isn't what happens, it's what happens when something is wrong.

Other than running a patch through to wipe the soot out, I haven't had to do anything to the barrel of my 9mm since the early 1990s, and I buy cast bullets for it in boxes of 1000.

 

[jaysouth]

Know the diameter of your bore and chamber, then order or cast lead bullets to accomodate YOUR barrel. The dimensions of barrels vary according to brand and production run.

As a rule, the softer the better for midrange target loads. Most big companies make them too hard. If you have the option, order the "cowboy" bullets, they will be softer.