Reasons to rotate carry loads

[tmd16556]

So today I got out to the range for pistol day. My main goal was to work up some alternative target loads in 9mm Makarov and test out my brew brass catcher since the steel cased Russian pipeline is drying up. The 700x loads worked but nothing exciting, the brass catcher was great and I not only didn’t hit anyone else on the line with hot Makarov brass but also recovered all of my brass.

So that’s the long prelude to my bigger story. I was warming up by shooting a few older carry loads. I had a mag of older carry loads for my PA 63 and decided to shoot those first. Fired two just fine and on target. Then the third made a little “pufft” sound and didn’t cycle. I cleared the action and flake powder poured out. I knew something was wrong so I took the slide off and sure enough a bullet was in there just past the chamber.

Thankfully, I’d had a squib before so I knew what it was and it was just annoying in the end. I managed to finish my load tests with the vz 82 alone.

Thw kicker was these were my carry mag loads. Granted I haven’t seriously carried the FEG since I got my Shield a few years back. The ammo was Hornady XTP Custom that I picked up about 10 years ago. I shot the rest up and it was fine, and more importantly it’s all gone so I don’t have to worry about it anymore and can use the brass.

I was surprised at the squib with a relatively new load. My last squib was a 38 special that was probably reloaded by my great grandfather when the last Republican President was Herbert Hoover. I expected a squib there, but the 12 year old Hornady factory load was an eye opener.

I guess the moral of the story is to buy a new box of carry ammo regularly and shoot off the old stuff.

 

[Zygodactyl]

What might have happened is that either gun oil or cleaning solvent migrated to the magazine and contaminated the powder or primer. Military ammo usually is lacquered sealed but commercial ammo omits that step.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

What might have happened is that either gun oil or cleaning solvent migrated to the magazine and contaminated the powder or primer. Military ammo usually is lacquered sealed but commercial ammo omits that step.

That sounds like a good reason. That is very possible...

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

In his book Shooting to Live W.E. Fairbairn said he had the Hong Kong police fire their issued ammunition every 3 months so they always were carrying newly issued rounds-though you wonder when they were manufactured and how long they'd been in storage. I note have encountered some quality control problems with recent manufacture 22LR, the number of FTFs has gone up markedly and in one batch of Federals I got an empty case.

 

[tmd16556]

I’d guess I got some CLP on that round wiping things down. I never really thought of that as being an issue before. The brass wasn’t shiny on the outside anymore. No other signs of powder degradation. I suppose if the brass isn’t bright it’s probably time to rotate it out.

 

[Bazoo]

I just shot some older carry ammo in my 45. It was I'd say 2 or 3 years old. It was for the longest time the only factory ammo I had. The mag in the gun was half HPs with the rest of that mag and another ball ammo. I cleaned the ammo once in my tumbler. And a couple times with a rag. When I retired it I just left it loaded, and finally shot it the other day. It all fed and fired without issue, including some light verdigris spots and some dents from mag followers. My 1911 will run dirty ammo though, I've done similar before through it.

 

[WisBorn]

I have never had a problem with ammo do to its age.
I like to rotate by shooting my carry ammo frequently. With carry ammo bouncing around all day in my pocket and collecting sweat rotating it is a good idea.
The practice is a good thing also...

 

[Zendude]

What might have happened is that either gun oil or cleaning solvent migrated to the magazine and contaminated the powder or primer. Military ammo usually is lacquered sealed but commercial ammo omits that step.

is there any commercial self defense ammo that is lacquered? For the high prices of defense ammo, it seems like this could be included.

 

[Charlie98]

I used to rotate my carry ammos about every 6 months. Because I have about 10 magazines stashed here and there, it amounted to at least a box (50) of SD ammos every time I rotated. That came to a screeching halt in recent times, unfortunately. I had 2 boxes in inventory, so about a year ago I went ahead and rotated... so I have 1 yr old ammos in my carry mags, and about 1/2 box left. Thankfully, I scored on 2 boxes of GoldDots this week... so, once again, I can shoot up my old carry stuffs, and reload with fresh ammos.

Does it make a difference? I dunno... but heat, vibration, sweat, and the occasional cycle through the chamber isn't doing it any favors, although I'm sure the quality of today's premium SD ammo is good.

 

[Hangingrock]

I have three firearms that are in a constant status/condition of being loaded. When we have visitors, the firearms are secured. As for rotation of self-defense ammunition that's marked on the Calander for occurrence of inspection and or change out if required. Yesterday was such a day.

 

[Bazoo]

I've also left ammo in the car, for periods. Had a box or two of all my calibers in the car that was about a year old when my house burnt down. I was sure glad I had that, as we saved 3 guns. It all has fired without issue.

 

[wcwhitey]

I once shot .303 British from WW1. I don’t usually worry about the age of ammo. When I clean my carry guns, which is frequently I do a visual inspection of the ammo. Anything that appears old or tarnished I shoot off at a practice session. My duty ammo was always rotated out automatically at semi annual training and qualification so that took care of itself. I think maybe the problem was leaving ammo stored in a loaded gun that was a bit wet from cleaning. Or, although rare sometimes bad ammo makes it out of the factory.

 

[ThomasT]

A few weeks ago I went shooting for the first time in a long while. I shot several new guns including a new SD9VE that I carry in my truck. I did have an SW9VE in the truck but I gave it to my son when I bought the new gun. But I kept the ammo. The ammo was reloaded by me with Remington 115gr HP bullets. Those had been in the magavine for at least 4 years in the Tx heat and cold. So i wondered if they would go off.

And they did. perfectly and with all the accuracy I was expecting. So far I have only had one round that didn't go off. (except ofr 22lr rounds) A second strike with the hammer fired the round. I suspect I must have not seated the primer all the way. All I shoot are reloads. I have very little factory ammo. Just 25acp and 32acp.

 

[tmd16556]

I looked at the case today while depriming. The powder was clinging to the rim of the case just below where the bullet was seated. I tried to light some with a butane lighter and only one flake fired off. I’m convinced that CLP got into the case and broke the powder down. I’d trust the load if it were stored in a box, but I think these sat in a chamber or mag that was over oiled 10 years ago.

 

[luzyfuerza]

It appears that oil contamination killed the powder in the round that caused the OP's FTF.

Lots of sweat has been proposed as one way to kill carry ammo. See https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/learned-a-valuable-lesson-with-my-ccw-ammo.851655/

Another rumored way to kill ammo is to break up the priming compound in the primer. Through rough handling. This hasn't happened in my experience, but apparently some manufacturers say that it is a realistic failure mode. See discussion here: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/another-reason-to-rotate-carry-ammo.802960/

 

[tmd16556]

The primer worked fine. I used to over oil and this was the gun I’d carry when it was hot and I’d sweat. I doubt sweat is a problem but do think I over oiled the magazine and pistol after a hot walk before putting it up.

 

[lightman]

I rotate mine and the Wife's once a year. I'm careful to keep oil away from the ammo but it is subjected to wide temp swings, going from an air conditioned house to the car to the store, ect. I have not had any ammo fail to fire or even to feed when we shoot the old stuff.

 

[briansmithwins]

In his book Shooting to Live W.E. Fairbairn said he had the Hong Kong police fire their issued ammunition every 3 months so they always were carrying newly issued rounds-though you wonder when they were manufactured and how long they'd been in storage. I note have encountered some quality control problems with recent manufacture 22LR, the number of FTFs has gone up markedly and in one batch of Federals I got an empty case.

In that book (https://www.amazon.com/SHOOTING-LIVE-One-Hand-Gun-Fairbairn-ebook/dp/B08TC6HQ27/ref=sr_1_1) he also emphasized the importance of cleaning and inspecting magazines after they had been carried. Magazines are almost always the weakest/most fragile part of modern auto loading pistols and also one of the most ignored.

Also, ammo quality pre-WWII was also just generally not as good as modern stuff loaded by a reputable manufacturer like Federal, Remington, or Speer*.

I try to rotate my loaded ammo and mags about 2x a year by shooting the mags that have been loaded. If you're doing a lot of unloading and loading keep an eye on the rim of the case for wear and for bullet setback on a round that been loaded from the mag multiple times.

BSW

*The omission of Winchester was deliberate. Winchester ammo has been disappointing me for going on 30 years.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I guess the moral of the story is to buy a new box of carry ammo regularly and shoot off the old stuff.

THIS. Well put!


I can't believe how so many people make such a big deal out of this, with their typical logic being "But self-defense ammo is SO EXPENSIVE!"

It's not as if you're taking 500 rounds of your chosen self-defense ammo to the range. You're simply keeping a couple boxes on hand to replace your carry ammo periodically from.

And likely, that's the carry ammo you cycle through the pistol routinely, too, when you unload and rotate the rounds in the magazine and reload.


As an example, I carry 15 rounds, eight in the pistol and 7 in my spare magazine. If I go shooting with my carry, I unload it, cycle the ejected round through my magazine, go about my shooting, then reload my carry ammo. No biggie. Once in a while I shoot my load of carry ammo and use fresh carry afterwards. Fifteen rounds at most. Eight, if I just shoot what's in the pistol and rotate my spare magazine up to the gun.

There are any number of ways to handle this.

- Drop the carry mag, use a different mag with your target ammo and shoot, the first round being the chambered carry round. Top off with a fresh carry round when you switch back.

- Shoot that magazine of carry ammo, carry on target shooting, reload with carry ammo when you're done.

- Shoot through your loaded carry ammo every (3, 6, 9, etc.) months and reload with fresh.


Whatever means a person uses, it's not a fiscally debilitating event to do this.

 

[luzyfuerza]

I bypassed the expense issue several years ago by biting the bullet and buying 500 rounds of quality carry ammo. All the same lot number (in my case Ranger 230 grain 45 acp). I tested a hundred rounds in my carry gun for POA vs POI, recoil, accuracy, function, etc. And have carried this stuff ever since.

Now, when I shoot off a magazine-full, cost or worrying about finding similar ammo as a replacement is not something I worry about.

I've never had a failure with this combination. Confidence is high.

One unexpected benefit: any time I've been tempted to change (like so many of us regularly are) carry guns, caliber, or type of carry ammo, I think back on the successful track record I've built with this combination. And I decide to hang on to something that I've proven works for me.

 

[briansmithwins]

I bypassed the expense issue several years ago by biting the bullet and buying 500 rounds of quality carry ammo. All the same lot number (in my case Ranger 230 grain 45 acp). I tested a hundred rounds in my carry gun for POA vs POI, recoil, accuracy, function, etc. And have carried this stuff ever since.

Now, when I shoot off a magazine-full, cost or worrying about finding similar ammo as a replacement is not something I worry about.

I've never had a failure with this combination. Confidence is high.

One unexpected benefit: any time I've been tempted to change (like so many of us regularly are) carry guns, caliber, or type of carry ammo, I think back on the successful track record I've built with this combination. And I decide to hang on to something that I've proven works for me.

That's pretty much what I did. A few years ago Natchez had a sale on Federal 9BPLE, a +P+ 115gr JHP that was/is used by LE. It's a older design that doesn't hold together as well as the more modern loads when going thru windshields and car doors, but is was known for getting the job done. Since it was ~$370 for a thousand delivered I bought a case. I still have most of that case of ammo.

BSW

 

[Trey Veston]

I can't believe how so many people make such a big deal out of this, with their typical logic being "But self-defense ammo is SO EXPENSIVE!"

It's not as if you're taking 500 rounds of your chosen self-defense ammo to the range. You're simply keeping a couple boxes on hand to replace your carry ammo periodically from..


Whatever means a person uses, it's not a fiscally debilitating event to do this.

What about the 98% of gun people that haven't seen their carry ammo for sale for two years?

I like the Sig V-Crown .40 S&W. I haven't seen it, or ANY .40 S&W defensive ammo for sale locally for a long, long time. Burning up a magazine full of premium self-defense ammo in the current reality may not be feasible for a lot of folks, no matter the cost.

 

[MikeInOr]

I recently shot off a box of CCI aluminum cased .380 that I purchased over 30 years ago for $7.95 for the box. Not a single problem! I have shot rifle ammo I got from my father that was a LOT older than this without an issue.
10 years seems like and incredibly short life span for ammo... way shorter than normal!

I have been hand loading my own my carry ammo for the past 20+ years so the first thing through the pistol at the range is what is what I have been carrying in it. Working bullets through the action without firing it seems to cause the heaviest wear on the ammo... i.e. the one in the chamber that I unload when I get home at night and put the gun up for the evening (My carry pistols are not my home protection guns. I like a full sized pistol for home protection and subcompacts for carrying). In the morning I seat the magazine, rack the slide, pop the magazine and put in the round I took out of the gun the night before. So the top 2 rounds get a lot of wear and occasionally will get pushed in (with factory ammo, I put a good crimp on my reloads... Lee factory crimp dies!).

 

[WisBorn]

I have to agree with @Trey Veston. I'm seeing more 9mm and a few other cartridges, but it is hit and miss on most.
I have changed what I am carrying in my CCW do to availability. In my 380 I switched from Sig to Persision One.
@Armored farmer recommended to me to give HST a try in my 380, but I have not seen any HST in any cartridge in the past year +.
Yesterday I bought 185hp instead of 230hp for my 45acp because that is what I found.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

My carry ammo is pretty safe in my carry gun. I clean the gun, then shoot about 50 rounds through it, then it's ready to carry. Nothing in there to migrate into the powder or primers.
That's the way I've always done it. My ammo always fires for me.