Rebated Cylinder-Colt

[jaxenro]

So Colt rebated the frame and cylinder of the 36 belt model to make it a 44

He rebated the frame and cylinder of the 31 pocket model to make it a 36

What would happen if the holster model (Dragoon) frame was rebated the same way? What size caliber? 48? 50?

 

[CraigC]

You could probably end up with a .475 but I don't think there's enough room for a .50.

 

[jaxenro]

So maybe a 170 grain .480 round ball

 

[CraigC]

Maybe! It really wouldn't be a huge job for a gunsmith that knows how to make cylinders. Wouldn't be cheap and there would be quite a bit of figuring, scheming and head scratchin' before they could make chips. I wonder if there's enough meat in the frame???

 

[jaxenro]

Bet there is the 1851 and 1849 frames are just scaled down Dragoon frames

 

[rcflint]

It can be done, but not as simple as you'd like. Rebating the cylinder lifts the chamber centers, requiring a barrel assembly that matches it. A 72 Opentop barrel would not fit a 51/61 Navy for the same reason.

Though you might make a 48 ior 50 caliber Dragoon, simply reboring would not be enough, you would need an entirely new barrel made to match the new height of the bore.

 

[CraigC]

Rebating the cylinder lifts the chamber centers, requiring a barrel assembly that matches it.

No it doesn't. If the chambers moved outward, you'd need a complete redesign.

 

[jaxenro]

So is a 44 "Navy" a completely different barrel assembly than a 36, or is just tecaliber different?

From 457 to 475 we are only talking .022 not like the .082 from 375 to 457

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

So is a 44 "Navy" a completely different barrel assembly than a 36, or is just tecaliber different?

The distance from the center of the arbor to the center of the bore is the same with both. That is why the same basic frame could be used with either, just making a cut in the Water Table for the increased diameter of the front of the 44 caliber cylinder.

This holds true with modern revolvers too. The distance from the center of the cylinder to the center of the bore is the same with any K frame S&W revolver. That is why 22, 32, and 38 caliber barrels and cylinders can be used on the same K frame.

 

[jaxenro]

So enlarging a Dragoon barrel to 475 might work the big expense would be the rebated cylinder

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

So enlarging a Dragoon barrel to 475 might work the big expense would be the rebated cylinder

Exactly. A rebated cylinder is not cut down from a larger one. A rebated cylinder is larger in diameter at the front than the original cylinder was. If you compare a 44 caliber 1860 Army cylinder (or a 44 caliber 'Navy' cylinder), to a 36 caliber Navy cylinder, you will see that the rear of the 44 caliber cylinder is the same diameter as the entire length of the 36 caliber cylinder. So if you wanted a rebated cylinder for the Dragoon you would need somebody to make up a new cylinder, which is the same diameter at the rear as the standard Dragoon cylinder, but is larger at the front, for the larger caliber chambers. Nothing that large exists, it would have to be custom made.

The rear of this Pietta 1860 Army cylinder is the same diameter as a .36 caliber Navy cylinder. In order to make it a 44, the front of the cylinder was made larger, and a cut is made in the frame to accept the larger front diameter. You can't start with a 36 caliber cylinder, you have to start with a chunk of steel that is larger in the first place.

 

[jaxenro]

I notice the frame is milled forward of the bolt slots so you don't have to mess with the timing

I wonder if you could sleeve the forwarded part of the cylinder with high strength steel then bore out the front part of the chambers or if the pressure would be too much for a welded sleeve? Probably be safest to start with a big chunk of steel and carve one out

 

[goon]

If it's just for fun, who can fault you for that?

But other than that, what would be gained? The .44 in Dragoon loadings is already plenty effective, isn't it?

 

[jaxenro]

Fun - were working on the other direction sleeving a Walker down to 36 (375). No practical application just fun

 

[Skinny 1950]

Why not make a frame to match the calibre, the Walkers and Dragoons are heavy anyway so why not make it a bit more of a burden to carry one.

 

[goon]

Fun - were working on the other direction sleeving a Walker down to 36 (375). No practical application just fun

One thing I'll say for you guys who frequent the BP forum - you know how to have fun and not take things too seriously. That's why I keep checking in here.

 

[jaxenro]

Why not make a new frame? Expense. If he frame could be rebated by milling a little that's cheap, if the existing barrel could be altered to 475 not as expensive, a of the existing cylinder could be sleeved and the chambers enlarged again not as expensive

 

[CraigC]

Why not make a frame to match the calibre, the Walkers and Dragoons are heavy anyway so why not make it a bit more of a burden to carry one.

I'd say turning a Dragoon into a .475 or .50 is more like making the caliber match the gun.

 

[Hoof Hearted]

Not trying to be offensive here but why do we keep using the terminology "rebated cylinder" when the cylinder is actually enlarged forward of the bolt and forward of the milled out area of the water table (ingenious work around by the way)?

I have a 50 (.501) dragoon in the works as we speak w/o the need for an "enlarged cylinder"..............

HH

 

[CraigC]

Because everybody knows what a "rebated cylinder" is, without going into a chicken/egg argument.

 

[Hoof Hearted]

Well lick me all over till I'm wet Like a trout....
I stand corrected!

I'll go back to working on guns (knew I shouldn't have gotten on the puter).

HH

 

[jaxenro]

Is the .50 dragoon a 5 shot?

Seems more like a belted cylinder than a rebated one the frame is the rebated part

You would know could an existing dragoon cylinder be sleeved - could you make a 1860 cylinder from an 1851 by sleeping the front half and boring the chambers larger?