Recoil and Gun Fit

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Quincy12

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I have been reading a number of previous posts on recoil attenuation and one of the items that has been mentioned more than once is gun fit. I read the post on how to check and see if a shotgun mounts to your shoulder properly, makes perfect sense, but is that the same as the gun fitting you well for least felt recoil?

I would like to do more clay shooting, maybe get the wife into sporting clays. I have spent much time shooting a shotgun, most of my time has been around rifles. I have an older Stevens 16 Ga. SxS and a Franchi AL48 in 20 Ga. 50-75 rounds of skeet with either just isn’t that much fun, mostly on my cheek. Now I’m considering maybe a Remington 1100 or a Beretta A390/391/400, in large part due to recoil. Just curious what your thought are. Thanks.

Q
 
If you are getting cheek slap, then there is a fit issue. There are basically two types of recoil - actual and felt. Actual is a number calculated using the weight of the ejecta, the velocity of the ejecta and the weight of the gun. Light slow loads in heavy guns have the least actual recoil. Felt recoil, aka "kick", is what it feels like to you. Even a heavy gun can seem to have a lot of felt recoil to someone if the gun doesn't fit.

Realize that most likely, you and your wife will not be shooting the same gun, nor possibly even the same brand or action type.

Fit is more than just the LOP. It involves cast on or off (LH or RH shooter), drop at heel, drop at comb, toe in or out, pitch, etc.

Not knowing where you are, I would suggest going to your local gun clubs and see if anyone knows a good gun fitter in your area. Note - a gunsmith is not always a good gun fitter.

Even a light gun with heavy loads can be somewhat pleasant to shoot IF the gun truly fits - which is why you see the English all having the stocks made for them. Their light SxS field guns shooting pheasant loads would be punishing to most, but in a gun that fits, it is easily done.

Look here as a starting point:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=279457

You might want to buy Rollin's book:
http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Fitters-Bible-Second-Edition/dp/1451570384
 
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Thanks for the reply Oneounceload. Finding a fitter in my area is unlikely (Louisville, KY) as there aren’t very many qualified gunsmiths around let alone someone who knows what stock fit is. And as far a gun clubs goes, we’ll see. The local range does have a sporting clays course as well as skeet, trap and 5 stand, so maybe. I am aware of the various measurements of fit, but what they should actually be, I haven’t a clue. The other bit of information that might be useful is that I have relatively little shot gunning experience outside of reading. I’ve shot rifle pistol all my life, but maybe 500 round of shot thus far. Still have a very hard time “pointing” instead of aiming! I would just like to first, broaden my horizons and second, clays would just be very enjoyable and at least there is a range nearby.
 
The following is my opinion. Gun fit with any semi normal person and any modern shotgun is not nearly as big a deal relative to felt recoil as gun weight, action type, and loads being used. It is a factor, and it is a bigger factor in the gun hitting where you think you are pointing it, making it easier or harder to hit the target. It is also my opinion it is the first crutch relatively light inertia gun shooters fall back on when someone complains about recoil.
I shot a lightened (as in machined) BPS 10 gauge for quite a while. It fit very well, and it still kicked, big time.
Best, cheapest way I have found to check gun fit is with a laser light shell that puts the laser dot where the gun shoots. In a pitch black room, have someone shine a small light like a Mini-Mag on the wall, throw up the gun as you would in normal shooting and shoot the light beam. If the laser hit's the light 8 out of 10 times you have a decent fit. If it is hitting consistently off in one direction we can suggest a fix. If it hits all over the place you have not yet mastered a consistent gun mount.
 
Here are the shotgun clubs in KY:
http://www.claytargetsonline.com/list.php/KY

You might see if these folks at Orvis will just do a fitting without having to order a custom gun:

http://www.deercreeklodge.net/orvis-custom-gun-program

Here's another possibility from SGW:

I don't know where you're at in KY but Tom (Shooters Solutions) did some great work for me and several of my clubmembers when he and Jean were in Florida. Their home base is western VA, close to the TN/KY borders.
http://www.shooterssolutionsllc.com/
I know a properly fit gun made a world of difference for my scores.
Good luck.
 
Check out some of the skeet/trap clubs in your area. My wife used to shoot skeet and has been to several state shoots in Louisville. Don't know the name of the club, but most of the folks there are nice and would be happy to help you with fitting your gun or at least explaining the process to you.
 
Good stock fit iMHO, is key. I have an old 20's vintage Marlin shotgun. Much lower drop at comb than most modern shotguns, and it kicks like a mile. Same would hold true in a rifle stock as well.
 
Thanks for all the information, I appreciate it. Never new there was a laser shell for shotguns or about the different places here to shoot.
 
I've never been to a fitting or done the try stock thing, adjustable gun fitters use. I have just shimmed my stocks for fit. LOP is a bit tougher, have to trim or add length, but I seem to be a standard 14", so that's not a real problem. Mossbergs tend to lack enough drop for me, though. They are cast neutral, but they beat me up if not fitted properly. So, I shim them. If the gun comes to me and i don't have to crawl the stock to see straight down the rib, I'm in the neighborhood. I'll add or pull shim material as needed until I feel it's right. I have both of my Mossbergs, old 500 camo and my newer 535, fitting well now. Before fitting, as Oneounce says, that 500 would beat the hell out of me, even cut my cheek at the cheek bone and I'd be bleeding in the marsh like a stuck pig. After shimming it, a trick I learned right her on this board, it's wonderfully comfy to shoot and my percentages have gone way up. :D

So, yeah, fitting is important to felt recoil, I can attest to that. Other factors are also important not just to FELT recoil, but to actual recoil, the weight of the gun for instance. My Winchester auto fit me right out of the box and it's a gas gun. It doesn't even have a recoil pad on it, didn't come with one, and I've shot a lot of doves in T shirt weather with it no problem. It's a 12 and I generally prefer the 1 ounce 7 1/2s in it. When duck hunting with heavy 2 3/4" steel shot fasteel loads, that Winchester is awesome. Seems like the more the powder charge, the better the gas action works to attenuate felt recoil.

Double guns are a problem with the tang fitting back into the stock. You can't easily shim one. So, trying a double at the shop is the only way to go. I'm starting to lose my interest in getting an O/U for this reason. I have a couple of SxSs and I was able to improve the Spartan with shims because the stock fit to the metal was so loose, not a well fitted gun, but that turned out to be fortunate. :D The biggest problem I have as a lefty with SxSs is that many, including that Spartan, have some right hand cast to them. That messes me up big time shooting lefty. I was able to take the cast out of that Spartan and lower drop a bit. It's sweet, now. But, I think my future shotguns will be autoloaders. I'm kinda hankerin' for a 20 gauge auto, now, nice light gas gun. Don't NEED one, just thinkin' I'd like to have one. So, I look around at pawn shops for a good used 1100 or something. If I stumble into one for a good price in good shape, I'll probably get it. :D There's a new Beretta, I think, maybe Benelli, one of the Italian B guns, that has a flat stock to metal fit, no tang extension and is an O/U. That could be a possibility in doubles.
 
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