Recoil Magazine Kerfuffle

[SuperNaut]

I did a search and couldn't find anything about this.

Looks like another Zumbo gets outed

Like we mentioned before, the MP7A1 is unavailable to civilians and for good reason. We all know that’s technology no civvies should ever get to lay their hands on. This is a purpose-built weapon with no sporting applications to speak of. It is made to put down scumbags, and that’s it. Mike Cabrera of Heckler & Koch Law Enforcement Sales and veteran law enforcement officer with SWAT unit experience points out that this is a gun that you do not want in the wrong, slimy hands. It comes with semi-automatic and full-auto firing modes only. Its overall size places it between a handgun and submachine gun. Its assault rifle capabilities and small size make this a serious weapon that should not be taken lightly."

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Is there something more to this than a link to a Facebook album with a half dozen comments that don't seem to be in any kind of context? Perhaps one has to be logged into Facebook to understand what is going on?

For those who don't like to blindly click links (especially when they say something about Zumbo but instead go to a Facebook page of some magazine), the link goes to this: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...46846617.65972.192573440821865&type=1&theater

 

[SuperNaut]

Yes, I was adding info as you were posting. See above.

 

[Bubbles]

Obviously you haven't been watching. Recoil magazine is fairly new and focuses on a lot of the latest, greatest "tacticool" toys.

They made the mistake of printing HK's policy regarding the sale of the cool stuff that everyone wants with the "this stuff is too awesome to be sold to anyone except military and LE" spin, then the editor followed it up with a statement about the "sporting purposes" clause that is guaranteed to give the anti-gunners future ammo for gun bans.

ETA: full statement from the editor:

Hey guys, this is Jerry Tsai, Editor of RECOIL. I think I need to jump in here and clarify what I wrote in the MP7A1 article. It looks like I may not have stated my point clearly enough in that line that is quoted up above. Let's be clear, neither RECOIL nor I are taking the stance on what should or should not be made available on the commercial market although I can see how what was written can be confused as such.
Because we don't want anything to be taken out of context, let's complete that quote and read the entire paragraph:

"Like we mentioned before, the MP7A1 is unavailable to civilians and for good reason. We all know that’s technology no civvies should ever get to lay their hands on. This is a purpose-built weapon with no sporting applications to speak of. It is made to put down scumbags, and that’s it. Mike Cabrera of Heckler & Koch Law Enforcement Sales and veteran law enforcement officer with SWAT unit experience points out that this is a gun that you do not want in the wrong, slimy hands. It comes with semi-automatic and full-auto firing modes only. Its overall size places it between a handgun and submachine gun. Its assault rifle capabilities and small size make this a serious weapon that should not be taken lightly."

Let' also review why this gun should not be taken lightly. In the article it was stated that the MP7A1 is a slightly larger than handgun sized machine-gun that can be accurately fired and penetrate Soviet style body armor at more than 300 yards. In the wrong hands, that's a bad day for the good guys.

As readers of RECOIL, we all agree that we love bad-ass hardware, there's no question about that. I believe that in a perfect world, all of us should have access to every kind of gadget that we desire. Believe me, being a civvie myself, I'd love to be able to get my hands on an MP7A1 of my own regardless of its stated purpose, but unfortunately the reality is that it isn't available to us. As a fellow enthusiast, I know how frustrating it is to want something only to be denied it.

Its manufacturer has not made the gun available to the general public and when we asked if it would ever come to the commercial market, they replied that it is strictly a military and law enforcement weapon, adding that there are no sporting applications for it. Is it wrong that HK decided against selling a full-auto pocket sized machine gun that can penetrate armor from hundreds of yards away? It's their decision to make and their decision they have to live with not mine nor anybody else's.

I accepted their answer for what it was out of respect for those serving in uniform. I believe that we as gun enthusiasts should respect our brothers in law enforcement, agency work and the military and also keep them out of harms way. Like HK, I wouldn't want to see one of these slip into the wrong hands either. Whether or not you agree with this is fine. I am compelled to explain a point that I was trying to make that may have not been clear.

Thanks for reading,
- JT, Editor, RECOIL

 

[Blackstone]

He really screwed up the wording if that's the case. "unavailable to civilians and for good reason". That's him stating his opinion, and I don't see any way he can explain that away.

 

[DNS]

Made up my mind.
I see no reason to read RECOIL.

His update to save his a** didn't work and his pathetic reasoning as to why i shouldn't own one is condescending for a gun enthusiast. Perhaps he should go edit for CAT FANCY where his opinions still won't matter.

 

[Iramo94]

Guys, I think we are all forgetting something very important about this.
We suck, and H&K hates us.

 

[beatledog7]

Why do we care what this character and his silly magazine have to say?

 

[OilyPablo]

God I hate facebook. It should be outlawed for civilian use.

 

[Apple a Day]

Wow, that may be the fastest self-destruct of a magazine I've ever seen. Four issues out and CRASH!!!! PoOf!

Why do we care what this character and his silly magazine have to say?

Because we suck and they hate us?

 

[rbernie]

He really screwed up the wording if that's the case. "unavailable to civilians and for good reason". That's him stating his opinion, and I don't see any way he can explain that away.

I agree. The real question is whether the best course of action is to 'out' this behavior (a la Zumbo) or ignore it. Unlike Zumbo, this 'magazine' has little in the way of status within the industry, and should not be allowed to profit from the attention that they seek.....

 

[mgregg85]

I say out the Zumbo types, maybe they will learn the error of their ways.

Don't forget about David Petzal, he was the original 'Zumbo' in magazines. Bill Ruger could have been the founding father of the Zumbo club.

Here is a nice, recent Petzal quote...
■ Anything tactical: These days, if you want something shooting-related to sell, just say it’s “tactical.” If you’re in law enforcement or the military, tactical is just the thing. If you’re a civilian, why do you need it?
http://www.fieldandstream.com/artic.../things-i-least-curmudgeons-guide-rifle-world

He has toned his rhetoric from his 1990's rant.

 

[HankB]

Current law doesn't let regular folks legally buy a new machine gun, so barring a change in the law it would only be available if made in BATF-approved semi-auto form. And unless the barrel were at least 16", it would require going the SBR tax route.

Where are these made? Germany? If OUS, they might not be importable even in "long barrel SA only" form.

So without legislative improvements or domestic production, the question of civilian availability is moot . . . but the RECOIL magazine author's attitude is worthy of the heartiest condemnation. And the subsequent explanation strikes me as more of an elitist "up yours" response than a sincere apology for severe foot-in-mouth syndrome.

 

[AlexanderA]

I have a different take on this. Considering that most of the gun press exists to flog gun sales (ever read a review that pans the product?), this may be attempted "reverse psychology." That is, making something out to be "forbidden fruit" for civilians ends up with it being all the more desirable. ("Really badass.") Nevermind that it may be illegal for civilians in its present form (see: Hughes Amendment). A semiauto version will be along shortly.

I agree that Recoil magazine overstepped the bounds, whatever its motive. Equating civilian ownership with "sporting use" was unforgivable, given that the 2nd Amendment is not about sporting purposes.

 

[Liberation]

Its funny, if you look at it he said civilians shouldn't be allowed to own MP7s, his retraction is you agree with him that civilians shouldn't be allowed to MP7s.

Did the VPC help him with that retraction? VPC likes pushing the idea that gun owners are opposed to the NRAs obstruction of "common sense gun laws."

I can't wait for him to talk about how loves shooting skeet with his Over/Under shotgun therefore he is clearly a true sportsman and gun owner! Just like Joe Biden!

 

[Bones11b]

From what I understand Silencerco among others are already pulling their advertising from this publication due to fallout from this situation.

 

[Twmaster]

What a <deleted>. He needs to go on to a new career. Perhaps he could practice a bit... Here Mr. soon-to-be-ex editor.. Repeat after me...

"Do you want fries with that?"

I'll not be subscribing if that's the editorial mindset there.

 

[gp911]

Anybody here actually read the magazine? The first issue was great, subsequent issues have been okay. The photography and overall presentation is slick, but the content is geared toward the crew-served AR crowd where whoever dies with the most accessories wins. Nothing wrong with that, just doesn't hold my interest. The comments by that editor betray a lousy mindset. I'll pass on the magazine now, that sort of "civilians aren't worthy" BS is especially sickening for a gun magazine.

 

[pockets]

I took a look at recoilweb.com, I think I will pass.
One great thing about the web is that anyone can publish their own magazine.
One horrid thing about the web is that anyone can publish their own magazine.
.

 

[hso]

The inevitable retraction and debasement before the customer base in reaction to the backlash.

http://www.recoilweb.com/recoil-statement-16159.html

 

[Blackstone]

So basically, he says that he was merely quoting H&K and that sentence wasn't his own opinion?

 

[gp911]

Yep, that's what he's saying. I doubt H & K appreciate getting the blame even though they do share that mindset regarding civilians.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

this hits so many chords, it resonantes

Heckler & Koch MP7 MP7A1 Submachine gun 4.6x30mm,
select fire (very few even possible to get in civilian hands)

"...no civvies should ever get to lay their hands on..." thoughtless rhetorical flourish, like some 18th century French court fop flipping his hanky.

I wish Don Alejo had had a couple of those, one for each hand, when Los Zetas came to take over his ranch 22 Nov 2010. (Although I suspect he did more damage with his sporting guns than he could have done with a tactical SMG. On a recent outing, my son took a clay pigeon thrower, a Winchester 140 sport gun and his fully tricked-out AK style Saiga 12 with 20 round drum and a few friends; it was a lot easier for them to hit moving targets with the sporting shotgun than with the tacticool toy.)

I watched a US civvie fly a Mig15 commie jet fighter and land at the local airshow. Responsible civvies should be able to lay their hands on any military tech they can keep secure just as curio or collector's item.

From civvie hands to bad guys? A lot of military/police hardware falls into criminal hands by theft/bribery/extortion from manufacturers, shipments in transport, distributor/wholesaler warehouses, retail dealer, military/police armories, military/police on patrol, abandonment in combat, etc. Dillinger got Tommyguns from Illinois polkice stations by theft, Bonnie and Clyde had BARs from National Guard Armories, today venders at the Mexican gun bazaars say they get guns from warehouses of confiscated weapons supposedly under Mexican Army custody, you get the picture? "Civvie" owners are not the only source of guns to bad guys, especially considering the small number of civvies who would have a MP7A1: if a civvie owned a MP7A1 they would probably treat it like the family jewels in a safe guarded by dragons.

Facebook exemplifies the power of computers to help you go from one error per minute (with time to correct before release to world) to thousands per nanosecond cached everywhere forever. No honest man needs that kind of power. Besides, kid, you'll shoot your eye out.

 

[Quiet]

RECOIL magazine = made by non-gun people (originally car people) who thinks guns are cool because how they are used in video games/movies and won't hire gun people because they think they know better

 

[mmitch]

Grant Cunningham's blog, today, (Monday, 09/10/12), has an interesting spin on Tsai's/Recoil's faux pas.

Mike