Recommendations for first handgun?

[John Joseph]

The Beretta distributor in the Middle East is
Email:
[email protected]
website:
www.josons.com

I couldn't find the SIG distributor

 

[stillquietvoice]

You might also look at Taurus pt 99 afd. It's similar to Beretta 92 m9. Same basic gun manufactured under license from beretta.

The closest 15+ capacity 45 acp that I know of is para ordinance p 14 45. It's a double stack 45 auto 13 round mags and 1 in tube. The pistol is a 1911 style using all of the 1911 internal parts including grip and slide safety

 

[AramNecro]

You might also look at Taurus pt 99 afd. It's similar to Beretta 92 m9. Same basic gun manufactured under license from beretta.

The closest 15+ capacity 45 acp that I know of is para ordinance p 14 45. It's a double stack 45 auto 13 round mags and 1 in tube. The pistol is a 1911 style using all of the 1911 internal parts including grip and slide safety

Great rec, thanks!

 

[Spats McGee]

Thanks, looks good. So far, HK P30L/45, Rex Alpha and Sphynx made the most impression. If only P30L was available in a tactical longer barrel variant.

AramNecro, are you sure you handled a P30L? I'm not being snotty here, I promise. I ask because according to HK's website, the P30L has a 4.45" (~11.3 cm) barrel. That's certainly what I would call a "full-size" gun.

 

[LiveLife]

AramNecro, are you sure you handled a P30L?

I taught a young couple how to shoot "defensive shooting" yesterday afternoon. Girlfriend never shot before and wants to buy a gun for conceal carry as store she works at and nearby stores have been robbed at gun point and she wants to protect herself.

I spent 4 hours training them from basics of shooting to advanced point shooting techniques (even with eyes closed) to the point where she was able to consistently produce fast 4"-6" groups at will anywhere on the target point shooting (no use of sights) from 5-7 yards.

She shot various pistols in 9mm/40S&W/45ACP and guess which pistol she liked and shot the best?

Glock 23.

AramNecro, as I previously posted, you should really handle and shoot the pistols BEFORE you buy as actual shooting impression and results on target maybe different.

And if you want to shoot fast and accurate, you can follow this thread in the "Competition" category that covers everything from basics to advanced shooting techniques - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902226

 

[zaitcev]

Looking to buy a handgun for occasional shooting range practice and home defense.

What im looking for:
* Manual safety

I'm rolling eyes so hard right here.

Right now i have my sight on either FN Five Seven or H&K HK45 Tactical, P30L 9mm or VP9 Tactical. Also, anywhere online i could find suppressors for those?

Oh... He's just trolling. Good job, Redditor!

 

[Tensaw]

The first gun that came to mind is a Sig P226 Legion SAO.

 

[Hokkmike]

Hi,

Im new to here and to guns in general.
Looking to buy a handgun for occasional shooting range practice and home defense.

What im looking for:
* Manual safety
* 15+ mag capacity
* Modern and good looking
* Ammo availability/affordability
* Budget $1000 ± $200
* Preferably 9mm or .45 ACP but ill consider other good options
* Longer barrel

Based on those, a lot of good guns get left out (Glock, S&W M&P, FN 509).

Right now i have my sight on either FN Five Seven or H&K HK45 Tactical, P30L 9mm or VP9 Tactical. Also, anywhere online i could find suppressors for those

Ive yet to find out what permits ill need and how to get them in my country so its a long way till i actually buy it, but just wanted to get this out of the way soon as possible. Going to a shooting range for the first time in a week and though their gun selection is poor, hopefully itll help me decide if i really want this.

Thank you.

Locally, 5.7 ammo is easy to find. It goes between $22 and $28 for a box of 50. The Five-seven is a well made pistol and has a safety. Forget 15, you can get magazines for 20 and 30 rounds. I did find it hard to shoot small groups with. It is a very a unique kind of pistol. Kind of like carrying an AR in your holster. The round is very difficult to reload and not recommended for such. It will max out the $$$$ you have available.

 

[AramNecro]

AramNecro, are you sure you handled a P30L? I'm not being snotty here, I promise. I ask because according to HK's website, the P30L has a 4.45" (~11.3 cm) barrel. That's certainly what I would call a "full-size" gun.

Ive never handled a firearm except for strikeball weapons, i thought it was obvious from my original post. I appreciate your concern and please excuse my ignorance.

AramNecro, as I previously posted, you should really handle and shoot the pistols BEFORE you buy as actual shooting impression and results on target maybe different.

I agree, but in my country we dont have much choice except what little is available in the very few gun ranges we have, im going to one tomorrow so ill write back with a more detailed review of what i shot.

I'm rolling eyes so hard right here.



Oh... He's just trolling. Good job, Redditor!

I had no intention of trolling, if my post comes off as ignorant its because it is, ive never head any practical experience with guns before.

 

[Spats McGee]

Ive never handled a firearm except for strikeball weapons, i thought it was obvious from my original post. I appreciate your concern and please excuse my ignorance. . . . .

There's absolutely nothing to excuse. Maybe I overlooked something in your original post, and maybe it was just my American background speaking up. For me, though, "new to guns," does not automatically mean "never handled a gun." Anyway, that's cleared up, now.

. . . . Looking to buy a handgun for occasional shooting range practice and home defense. . . . .

For shooting range, and HD, a full-sized gun will serve you well. Full-sized guns are easier to shoot, and easier to shoot well than smaller pistols, as a general rule. My comments on the P30L . . . . Unless I'm mistaken (and I'm always fine with being corrected if I am) is that the L already means it's a long-slide version. I've spent a lot of time on gun boards and one complaint that I don't think I've ever seen is, "That HK was just too small for me." HK makes good firearms, but in my opinion, they lean towards "overbuilt" and "large."

Let us know how the range session goes, and if you learn anything about what you like and don't like. That will help us help you.

 

[AramNecro]

There's absolutely nothing to excuse. Maybe I overlooked something in your original post, and maybe it was just my American background speaking up. For me, though, "new to guns," does not automatically mean "never handled a gun." Anyway, that's cleared up, now.


For shooting range, and HD, a full-sized gun will serve you well. Full-sized guns are easier to shoot, and easier to shoot well than smaller pistols, as a general rule. My comments on the P30L . . . . Unless I'm mistaken (and I'm always fine with being corrected if I am) is that the L already means it's a long-slide version. I've spent a lot of time on gun boards and one complaint that I don't think I've ever seen is, "That HK was just too small for me." HK makes good firearms, but in my opinion, they lean towards "overbuilt" and "large."

Let us know how the range session goes, and if you learn anything about what you like and don't like. That will help us help you.

Good we're clear now.

Just returned from the range. Shot 9mm Glock 17 (17 rounds), .45 ACP Colt 1911 (7 rounds), 9mm Grand Power Stribog w/ red dot sight (10 rounds) and 7.62 AKM (30 rounds), all semi auto (full auto firearms are completely illegal outside military/LE here).
Out of those i liked the Glock and Stribog the most. The .45 round had noticeably more recoil than the 9mm, or at least thats what i gathered from my experience. Have to admit handguns feel way bigger in real life than in pictures. I always imagined Glocks as these comfy compact guns, but the 17 felt really solid and fitting while not being bulky, but now i imagine how the even larger HKs would feel. Liked the low recoil on the Striborg and the red dot felt as good as i imagined. The AKM however, was a hassle. Too ergonomically outdated and the recoil left a bruise on my shoulder, think it was the AKM and not the Stribog (should prolly blame my loose grip on the initial shots).

Definitely liked the experience and planning on obtaining a license for a smoothbore hunting gun and after 5 years of owning one, youre allowed to get a rifled gun. Will also keep visiting the place from time to time, cost me ~53$ (charge is on per bullet basis), which is pretty hefty. Id like to know how much would it cost you guys to shoot the same amount of ammo.

Some pics of my groupings, unfortunately dont remember which sheet is for which gun. I shot from 15 meters, except AKM which was i think from 50+ meters and seated leaning on a desk. I had like 4-6 rounds completely missing the sheets in total (2 of them with the AKM with me trying to specifically hit the shoulders of the target, the other 2-4 were probably when i tried to rapid fire 2-shot groups with the handguns/SMG):

 

[labnoti]

If you are new to guns, why do you think you know enough to define so many specific criteria? You haven't even mentioned a purpose for the handgun, so I don't know why anyone thinks they can suggest one for you.

 

[LiveLife]

You haven't even mentioned a purpose for the handgun

OP posted on post #1 for range practice and home defense.

for occasional shooting range practice and home defense.

 

[LiveLife]

Glad you got to range test different firearms. As you continue to shoot different pistols, you will identify the pistol you are more comfortable with and be able to shoot more accurate.

Based on my experience of shooting various pistols last 30 years, most factory pistols and average factory ammunitions are capable of 2.5 cm groups at 6 meters, 5 cm groups at 10-13 meters and 8-10 cm groups at 22 meters on average while steadying the hands/pistol on a rest or sandbags.

You can review this thread to shoot more accurate - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902226

Starting with pulling the trigger (Dry firing) without moving the front sight - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902452

And gripping the pistol to steady the front sight - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902444

 

[labnoti]

It looks like you are in Armenia. I am glad you are able to enjoy shooting and I hope you have a chance to do much more. I am not familiar with what's available there or what it costs. I suggest a heavier, metal gun if you will not be carrying it. The great mass makes them easier to shoot well. That could include CZ, Sig, 1911, revolvers, Beretta 92, Browning Hi Power, and many more. If you will not carry the gun, a single action will have the best trigger, better than a striker-fired gun, or a DA/SA gun. You can get some CZ, the Hi Power, 1911, Sig P210 in single-action. Some people who carry the gun are concerned about manipulating the manual safety, and so they choose a DA/SA with a decocker to avoid that, or they choose a striker fired gun with a longer trigger pull. Single actions have short, crisp triggers but would not be considered safe to carry without a safety.

9mm is cost-effective, but you could consider a second gun in .22LR if ammo is expensive and you want to shoot more.

Where I am in the western US I can rent 3 handguns for $25. The rental range expects me to buy their ammo and their targets. The rental of the range is included. A box of 50-count 9mm might cost $15 and a .45 ACP might cost $20 for cheap target ammo. So if I rented two 9mm and one .45 handgun and shot 150 rounds, it would cost $75 or about $0.50 per round, plus something for the targets, probably a few more dollars.

I could buy a new Glock 17 for $500 and cheap 9mm ammo for $10 per box of 50. These are not the cheapest prices. I'm not giving an example of doing it as cheap as possible, but if I just went to Sportsmans Warehouse to buy a new gun, and Walmart for ammo. Obviously used guns and reloading ammo can be even cheaper. But at this price, just the ammo would be $30 to shoot the same 150 rounds, or $0.20 per round. My figures are in USD.

 

[LiveLife]

I suggest a heavier, metal gun if you will not be carrying it. The great mass makes them easier to shoot well.

Not necessarily. Many compete in IPSC/USPSA/IDPA/GSSF matches with lighter polymer framed pistols and do very well.

I used to shoot USPSA with 1911 and Sig P226 but when a fellow match shooter offered for me to shoot practice stage with Glock 17 I never shot before, I got faster stage time than P226 with comparable accuracy. I couldn't believe it as I was quite proficient with the P226. I repeated the stage twice more and got faster times each time with Glock 17.

Not too long after that, I replaced P226 with Glock 17 and subsequently bought Glock 19 and Glock 26. I later bought 2 Glock 22 to shoot USPSA matches with and currently have G22/23/27 with 40-9mm conversion barrels to practice with cheaper 9mm ammunition.

And lighter polymer pistols can be accurate too - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ts-and-discussions.778197/page-6#post-9924922

25 yard groups with Glock 22 using factory barrel - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ick-plated-bullets.761471/page-4#post-9645513

25 Yard groups with Glock 22 using KKM 40-9 conversion barrel - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ick-plated-bullets.761471/page-5#post-9655361

 

[labnoti]

Yes, but then people put things like tungsten guide rods and weapons lights to make those polymer pistols heavier. Not saying that you can't do it and that skill doesn't trump gear in competition, but that a metal gun with a single action trigger has advantages compared to a plastic one with a striker action, and that there are really no meaningful trade-offs when the gun isn't carried. A CZ Czech Mate or Tactical Sport is going to make a better range gun than a Glock, even if one is not in competition. Likewise a Sig P210, or a 9mm 1911. But I've said enough, having given a suggestion and a rationale for it.

 

[LiveLife]

But that's YOUR opinion based on your experience.

Ultimately it is going to be up to OP how well different pistols shoot in OP's hands.

Yes, I do like how 1911s, Berettas, BHPs, Sigs, CZs, etc. shoot but also like how Glocks, M&Ps and Shield 9mm shoot for defensive purposes and I would certainly include polymer framed pistols in my evaluation and select the one that shoots best.

That's why I suggested OP actually shoot the pistols and select the one that shoots well/most accurate.

 

[AramNecro]

Thanks again for positive reinforcement. Again, the gun will be used exclusively for range practice, aesthetics and the extremely improbable event of home defense.

Glad you got to range test different firearms. As you continue to shoot different pistols, you will identify the pistol you are more comfortable with and be able to shoot more accurate.

Based on my experience of shooting various pistols last 30 years, most factory pistols and average factory ammunitions are capable of 2.5 cm groups at 6 meters, 5 cm groups at 10-13 meters and 8-10 cm groups at 22 meters on average while steadying the hands/pistol on a rest or sandbags.

You can review this thread to shoot more accurate - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902226

Starting with pulling the trigger (Dry firing) without moving the front sight - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902452

And gripping the pistol to steady the front sight - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902444

I had already gone through that thread and all the videos beforehand. And it was actually one of the biggest points of mental pressure trying to follow both Rob's advice and the instructor's "hold lightly, relax and squeeze slow". One thing i realized, and something i always assumed, was that guns combine 2 things that i hate the most: sudden jerking motions and loud noises, and hence i think my anticipation for the recoil is quite poor. No it didnt push the gun into my face but i found recovering from it into a stable accurate aiming position took quite a few moments and made quick 2 or 3-shot "burst" groups nearly impossible. I had >1s delay between each shot and thats when i already got warmed up and used to the recoil and the initial shock.

As for full metal bodies, ill look into them but most of them are older designs right? Not really my thing as i prefer the modern look of most polymer guns and aesthetics are also important to me, excuse my pettiness.

 

[LiveLife]

I had already gone through that thread and all the videos beforehand.

i found recovering from it into a stable accurate aiming position took quite a few moments and made quick 2 or 3-shot "burst" groups nearly impossible.

I find this drill helpful to teach people shoot accurate and fast follow up shots:

• Practice grip and trigger pull until you can dry fire without moving the front sight.
• Put two targets on cardboard (I usually use 2 notebook/copy paper) and place cardboard at 3-4 meters.
• Look past the front sight and while looking at the center of target and fire.
• Now fire the second shot on the center of next target.
• Practice shooting one shot at each target as you bring the targets closer to each other.
• Then fire at single target twice, imagining two targets stacked on top of each other for fast follow up shot - This is commonly known as "double tap".
• Now do the same thing with 3-4 targets. This will allow you to shoot accurate and fast 3-4 follow up shots.
• When you have mastered consistently shooting fast and accurate follow up shots, move cardboard further out (say by 1 meter)

I use the same drill to teach people "point shooting", initially starting out shooting at one target with eyes closed (To determine natural point of aim to sync with point of impact), then eyes open but focused on the target (and not at front sight). Once proficient at 3-5 meters, I have them use the front sight flash to shoot at more distant targets.

 

[LiveLife]

i found recovering from it into a stable accurate aiming position took quite a few moments ... I had >1s delay between each shot and thats when i already got warmed up and used to the recoil and the initial shock

If you say you are "recovering" and mean lining up the sights on target, you may be experiencing "sight fixation" and Rob addresses this issue in this video by having you shoot with eyes closed (BTW, I always start my students with shooting eyes closed to determine natural point of aim/impact) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902230

 

[labnoti]

Full disclosure: I'm a revolver guy, not old at all but totally old-school. But I don't think these all-metal guns are what your Grandpa shot:






The mass of the gun is what's going to make the difference between a high-velocity recoil or a lower velocity recoil. If you don't like sudden jerking motions, slow it down.

 

[LiveLife]

Two can play the "beyond typical factory" game.

Sig P320 X-Five and VTAC are capable of producing 1.14" to 1.97" groups at 25 yards - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/8/10/tested-sig-sauer-p320-x-series-pistols/

Lipsey's Vickers Tactical Glock 17 can produce 1.00" to 1.80" groups at 25 yards - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/23/tested-lipsey-s-vickers-tactical-glock-17/

And for "typical factory" polymer pistol, S&W M&P 9 M2.0 can produce 1.33" to 2.36" groups at 25 yards, more accurate than many "factory" 1911s - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/5/22/tested-smith-wessons-mp-m20-pistol/


Just because they are polymer and lighter, doesn't mean they can't shoot accurate. BTW, here's a listing of various factory pistols and 25 yard groups with many polymer pistols out shooting all metal pistols - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778197/page-9#post-10940688

Nighthawk Custom Hi-Power (25 yards) 0.74" to 1.71" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/4/11/tested-nighthawk-custom-hi-power/

EAA Witness Elite 1911 (25 yards) 0.82" to 1.41" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/5/5/tested-eaa-witness-elite-1911-polymer-pistol/

Lipsey's Vickers Tactical Glock 17 (25 yards) 1.00" to 1.80" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/23/tested-lipsey-s-vickers-tactical-glock-17/

Ruger PC carbine (50 yards) 1.13" to 1.42" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/2/tested-ruger-s-pc-carbine-and-security-9-pistol/

Sig P320 X-Five/VTAC (25 yards) 1.14" to 1.97" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/8/10/tested-sig-sauer-p320-x-series-pistols/

S&W M&P9 M2.0 Compact (25 yards) 1.22" to 3.64" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/11/30/tested-smith-wesson-mp9-m20-compact-pistol/

Remington R1 M1911 (25 yards) 1.24" to 2.99" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/1/13/the-remington-r1-m1911/

KRISS Vector Gen II SDP 9 (25 yards) 1.33" to 1.53" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/7/19/tested-kriss-usa-vector-gen-ii-sdp-9-mm-pistol/

S&W M&P9 M2.0 (25 yards) 1.33" to 2.36" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/5/22/tested-smith-wessons-mp-m20-pistol/

Sig P225 (25 yards) 1.38" to 2.43" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/6/22/tested-sig-sauer-p225-a1-nitron-compact-pistol/

Ruger SR1911 Target (25 yards) 1.46" to 3.23" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/1/9/tested-ruger-sr1911-target-pistol/

Sig P226 Legion Series (25 yards) 1.58" to 2.36" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/4/15/tested-sig-sauer-legion-series-p226-pistol/

Ruger Mark IV 22/45 Lite (25 yards) 1.82" to 2.00" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/3/tested-ruger-mark-iv-2245-lite-pistol/

FN 509 (25 yards) 1.88" to 2.06" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/6/26/tested-the-fn-509-pistol/

H&K VP9SK (25 yards) 1.97" to 2.23" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/5/tested-heckler-koch-s-vp9sk-pistol/

Beretta APX (25 yards) 2.30" to 2.47" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/7/25/tested-beretta-s-apx-pistol/

CZ P-10 C (25 yards) 2.40" to 3.02" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/10/6/tested-cz-p-10-c-pistol/

Kimber Camp Guard 10mm (25 yards) 2.41" to 2.69" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/11/tested-kimber-camp-guard-10-pistol/

Springfield XDM 4.5" OSP (25 yards) 2.46" to 2.80" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/21/tested-springfield-xdm-45-osp-9-mm-pistol/

Ruger American (25 yards) 2.48" to 2.89" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/12/29/tested-ruger-american-pistol/

PSA 1911 Stainless Two-Tone (25 yards) 2.51" to 2.89" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...to-state-armory-1911-two-tone-premium-pistol/

Walther PPQ M2 Q4 Tac (25 yards) 2.53" to 2.76" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/19/tested-walther-ppq-m2-q4-tac-9-mm-pistol/

Ruger Security 9 (25 yards) 2.63" to 3.15" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/2/tested-ruger-s-pc-carbine-and-security-9-pistol/

More pistol reviews and 25 yard groups at link.

 

[labnoti]

I didn't mention accuracy. I mentioned low velocity of recoil, and 4 out of 5 of the guns I pictured are box-stock factory production.

 

[LiveLife]

I didn't mention accuracy. I mentioned low velocity of recoil

Ooops. sorry.