Red dot or irons

What sights do you prefer on a defensive pistol?

  • Red Dot (started on red dot, not switching)

    Votes: 3 3.1%

  • Irons (started on irons, not switching)

    Votes: 44 45.4%

  • Red Dot (started on irons, switched to Red Dot)

    Votes: 23 23.7%

  • Irons (tried a Red Dot, went back to irons)

    Votes: 17 17.5%

  • Started on Irons but am considering a RDS

    Votes: 10 10.3%
  • Total voters
    97
  • Poll closed .
DustyGmt

DustyGmt

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
4,013
Location
Green Mountains
Just curious how many people out there have made the switch to a red dot or are sticking to their irons and perhaps a brief statement as to why they prefer one over the other. Seems like as the years go on the red dots have become just as prevalent on pistols as they are on rifles, maybe more.

I am slow to the table on these kinda of things and I bought all my guns before MOS and slide cuts/mounting accommodations were a standard item on a pistol. I've been giving it some consideration lately, I wouldn't be opposed to sending a glock off to get optic cut.

I've never shot a handgun with a RDS that I can remember but I did pick up an RDS equipped handgun a few times and found it hard to pick up the dot, something I'm sure could be overcome in a day, some instructors report that beginners pick up a handgun/RDS and are scoring A zone hits consistently right off the bat but hand em a gun with irons and they miss. There's a clip going around on the internet of a guy calling irons (amish guns). 😆

something tells me either way, I'll get by just fine without a RDS on my pistol, maybe once I wear out my EDC holster and its time for a new one, just taking a poll to see where most guys are with it......
 
On rifles I stopped using iron sights decades ago. A decent quality scope simply does everything better and based on my experiences they are more rugged.

I've tried dot sights on rifles in the past and until recently haven't found anything that worked for me. Not all dot sights are the same. I've looked at more that I didn't like than I did like.

Dot sights on handguns are new to me and I haven't decided yet. I think that for some uses they can be a good thing. I can see them being common on LE handguns in the next decade, for open carry, and for home defense. For target shooting they are clearly better. I'm not ready to add that much bulk and weight to a small, concealed carry handgun. At least not yet.

I have a couple of pistols cut for optics and decided to try the Holsun sight.


but I did pick up an RDS equipped handgun a few times and found it hard to pick up the dot,
Click to expand...

That was my 1st issue. Holsun makes a sight with just the dot. But for a few dollars more they make one that gives you 3 options. Just the dot, just a circle, or the dot in a circle.

My 1st one just had the dot and it still takes me a few seconds to find it at times but once I found the dot my accuracy, especially at longer ranges, improved dramatically. I bought a 2nd one with the option of the dot inside a larger circle. Part of the circle will always show up immediately. If the dot isn't centered, I can tell exactly which direction to correct. Makes it much faster on target for me anyway.

I put the sight with just the dot to a gun I only use at the range, the dot+circle on a HD pistol.

I liked it well enough to try one of their sights on an AR. And yes, I like it too. This is the only thing I've tried on a rifle that worked well for me.

 
Been carrying (mostly) 1911s with Irons since 1994 or so. Tried a (cheap) red dot and find it slower than irons. But...

I wear bifocals. And special glasses for the computer. And I find myself struggling more some days to get a good sight picture and make the rounds go where I want, so either I need to train to keep my eyes on the target sometimes and manage the blurry sight picture, or adopt to a red dot.

I'm trying the latter now. Once I get the mounting plate in and a few hundred rounds down-range I'll report back.

In theory it should be much faster, and I do find the dot can be much more accurate than irons. In practice I've got a lot of reps looking at the front sight, and switching to just looking at the target might take a while.
 
I don't know what my EDC handgun is for -- that is, exactly what scenario I will need it for. Nobody has been able to tell me what range I'll have to shoot it, how many times, who or what the target will be like, how many targets, whether it will be dark or daylight, how much time I'll have, or any of the other things I'd like to know.

I've done most of my formal training with a reflex optic. A fair portion of that training included how to use the gun when the reflex optic had any of the possible failure modes (no dot, diode obstructed, back of optic obstructed, front of optic obstructed, optic broken, etc.). I have shot without an optic a fair amount also, both fixed (trough) sights on a single action and j-frames (with trough or Novak-style), and also with adjustable sights.

I can get outstanding precision (tight groups) from a fixed-sight j-frame, but I cannot get the accuracy out of it that I can get with an optic on a larger revolver. I've also compared the same gun with and without an optic and as much as I wanted to free myself from the encumbrance and ugliness of a reflex optic, I could not deny the difference in the results, especially at 15 or 20 yards, and even more so at longer ranges. So, I carry an optic.
 
DustyGmt said:
Just curious how many people out there have made the switch to a red dot or are sticking to their irons and perhaps a brief statement as to why they prefer one over the other. Seems like as the years go on the red dots have become just as prevalent on pistols as they are on rifles, maybe more.

I am slow to the table on these kinda of things and I bought all my guns before MOS and slide cuts/mounting accommodations were a standard item on a pistol. I've been giving it some consideration lately, I wouldn't be opposed to sending a glock off to get optic cut.

I've never shot a handgun with a RDS that I can remember but I did pick up an RDS equipped handgun a few times and found it hard to pick up the dot, something I'm sure could be overcome in a day, some instructors report that beginners pick up a handgun/RDS and are scoring A zone hits consistently right off the bat but hand em a gun with irons and they miss. There's a clip going around on the internet of a guy calling irons (amish guns).😆

something tells me either way, I'll get by just fine without a RDS on my pistol, maybe once I wear out my EDC holster and its time for a new one, just taking a poll to see where most guys are with it......
Click to expand...
I use them all. Some pistols have irons, and some red dots and night sights installed.
 
Age made this decision for me. I don't have the 20-20 vision I did pre-45 years old. I have to make a choice with iron's. I can see the sights or the target clearly with irons. Can't have both. Red dot's fixed all of that and put a lot of fun and accuracy back into shooting for me. My EDC has suppressor height tritium sites for backups, and I do practice with both.
 
I have a number of firearms that have various red dots some have been used defending things. I don’t have one on any of my EDC guns though.
 
Both, so none of the above.
Started out on irons and scopes, still have guns that I've never changed. Also have RDS', just not on my carry gun.
 
I tried a red dot and I am faster to find a sight picture with irons. That said and never been in a self defense situation I have no idea of how I would act. Mostly likely just look down the barrel and pull the trigger. I don't think anyone can actually predict how they will react until placed in that situation.
 
I depends on how good your eyes are. I like irons when I was young but as I got older I couldn't get both sights focused on the target at the same time. So I have had to go to scopes & red dots for my shooting now.
 
I shot with iron sights my whole time in the mil, and attended some very difficult training using them. I have no desire for a red dot because:
1- $ I don't need or want to spend
2- a RDS will not help you see the target better
3- another electronic device to fail
4- adding mass and weight to something that is supposed to be light, compact, and convenient is counter-productive
 
This is one of those things where you know what you know and don't know what you don't. And what you don't pretty much always requires a little bit of time and work from you to actually figure it out.

Ive been using red dots on long guns for over two decades now. Once I tried one on my first rifle, I knew exactly where it was going to go, and it did. I also knew that once I got sucked into the dots on my handguns, it would go the same way. Ive just been putting it off, mostly because of cost, but some of it has been technology too.

Got completely sucked in a couple of months back now, and its been full speed ahead ever since. 🙄 :)

So far, other than cost, Ive seen nothing but positives. Speed is better, accuracy is better (especially at a distance), and I don't need any glasses/eye correction with the dot. And, like the long guns, its a 24/7 sight.

As with most things, anything new will be a bit different at first, and you will get out of this what you are willing to put in. There is a bit of a learning curve, but its not a big deal, and if you're a "point shooter", I think youre going to find youre already ahead of the game.

Once you figure out the slight adjustment you need to make while presenting the gun, the dot is always right there on the target and there's no need to do anything but shoot.

And as I said, you need to do the work if you want to figure it out. I spent the first month doing nothing but presentations, from just picking the gun up from wherever it lay, to ready positions and from my holster, and been doing that daily ever since. Just constant repetition and presentations until you don't have to think about doing it.

If anything stood out to me, its how you bring the gun up and acquire the sight. With irons, I would bring the front of the gun up as I was pushing it out, picking up the front sight, and putting it on target as the gun presented, rocking the rear up into alignment right at the end and shooting. I quickly learned that if you do that, the dot is harder to pick up/find. You want to get the dot as early as you can. Waiting until the gun is out there, makes it more difficult. Think looking for a laser dot that's "out there" somewhere. Thats kind of what its like. Youll lose focus on the target and start looking for the dot.

Someone I was talking to on another site said its the difference between a 45° presentation and a 90° presentation, if that makes sense.

What you do is, bring the gun straight up in front of your face "before" you push it out. The dot is right there and quickly picked up, and once you have it, you don't lose it. And of course, youre doing this, while your focus is on the target (not the dot) and where you want the dot to be on the target when the gun is presented. And that's where it will be, or very close. Its just like shooting a dot on a long gun in that respect.

If you're the least bit interested in going the red dot route, Id say don't hesitate to go for it. You wont be sorry. Well, your wallet might be :) but in the long run, you're going to be way ahead.

I still shoot irons every time out, but Ive literally "seen the light" and continue to move forward. :thumbup:
 
FL-NC said:
I shot with iron sights my whole time in the mil, and attended some very difficult training using them. I have no desire for a red dot because:
1- $ I don't need or want to spend
2- a RDS will not help you see the target better
3- another electronic device to fail
4- adding mass and weight to something that is supposed to be light, compact, and convenient is counter-productive
Click to expand...
1. No doubt. Its going to cost you. Its getting better, but it is what it is.

2. But your focus will be on the target and the dot will be right there, just like it is with your long guns. No other "alignment" is necessary.

3. That too is what it is, but this ain't the 90's either, and just like a long gun, there are BUIS if it should, and they are right there as well. Things are a lot better in the electronic respects too.

4. The mass and weight thing is getting better every generation. I see no difference in weight or how the guns feel or handle, and really don't even know the dot is there, other than it is when I look for it.


Theres no doubt some guns are best left alone, but that too is also changing as they get the technology better and things get smaller and more robust. But for the more realistic "primary" guns, once you "see the way", I doubt you'll be going back. You just have to take those few first steps. ;)
 
I've played with a few red dots, from cheap Chinese to top of the line current SWAT issue, both on rifles and handguns. IMHO, and people will argue, the only place they belong is on a dedicated entry carbine and service handgun for those who are doing tactical entry and other high risk LE things. I believe the patrol carbine is better served with a magnified optic, and the personal defense sidearm better served with irons...although I am a fan of tritium and lights. ETA: I believe they absolutely have a place in recreational shooting including action competition where allowed. They are an effective tool here.

My reasoning. A personal defense sidearm is essentially a last ditch weapon. It's drawn into a hazardous situation with no time to ensure things are working properly or fiddle with switches, etc. It needs to perform as expected RIGHT NOW under extreme stress. It's often carried for long periods of time, and subject to impacts and other stresses with little attention paid to details like the function of your fancy RD sight system. In actual defensive use, it is most often used at extremely close range and pointed rather than aimed, both eyes open, maximum situational awareness. A red dot is bad news in this scenario. So is aiming your sights. This is how I shoot, this is what works for me. I shoot in some informal action matches locally, and there are some elite IDPA shooters and real life SWAT operators that attend. They tend to have sighting devices other than irons on their handguns. I am ALWAYS in the top 3 at engaging the targets inside of 7 yards, as I do not aim at them. The ones that beat me have usually learned to ignore their dot on these targets also. They pull ahead in time scores at the longer targets that are outside of normal defensive handgun ranges. The RD is a superior aiming device at longer targets IMHO, especially in terms of getting multiple hits on them.
 
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I have a Sentinel on my 48 mos and a Vortex dot and circle on a Ruger PCC. (house and ranch firearms). All other pistols and rifles,scopes and irons... I'm a last half of the 20th century Ludite.
 
DustyGmt said:
Just curious how many people out there have made the switch to a red dot or are sticking to their irons and perhaps a brief statement as to why they prefer one over the other. Seems like as the years go on the red dots have become just as prevalent on pistols as they are on rifles, maybe more.
Click to expand...
Might try it one of these days, especially if the eyesight starts to have problems as part of the natural process of aging.. Right now it's revolver+irons+lasergrip.

Last gun I purchased was acquired with the intent of seeing what all the red dot fuss was about.
 
It looks like slide cuts and mounting space on handguns is going the same way as the accessory rail did over the last two decades. Soon it will be extremely rare to find a new production gun that isn't compatible with a red dot. It's pretty close to being that way now.

I noticed some posters expressed concern for added bulk and weight, holster makers seem to be doing a pretty good job making good designs that accommodate red dot/WML's and some of the hooded RDS on the market are pretty small. I have a pretty strong desire to send my slide off to get cut but there are about 10 other needs/wants in the $500 price range ahead of the RDS so it may be a while, but I think I'll eventually get one, hopefully I have the opportunity to try one ahead of time.

It takes thousands of $$$$ of ammo to get relatively small accuracy/speed gains over the course of months/years depending on how much time and money you can put into it, if the red dot can accelerate that for a couple few hundred, it's probably worth a try. Shooting is a perishable skill and with money tight and ammo expensive, it's probably a good investment if you can gain an edge. Or I could just give up on this whole idea and keep doing what I've always done and make the best of it with irons.

It's just a slight irk thinking a noob with a RDS with limited experience and time on the trigger will easily surpass me in speed and accuracy..... It took me a long time and alot of $$$ and learning/training just to become marginally good at shooting.... 😉
 
FL-NC said:
I shot with iron sights my whole time in the mil, and attended some very difficult training using them. I have no desire for a red dot because:
1- $ I don't need or want to spend
2- a RDS will not help you see the target better
3- another electronic device to fail
4- adding mass and weight to something that is supposed to be light, compact, and convenient is counter-productive
Click to expand...
Well said.
 
Random 8 said:
I've played with a few red dots, from cheap Chinese to top of the line current SWAT issue, both on rifles and handguns. IMHO, and people will argue, the only place they belong is on a dedicated entry carbine and service handgun for those who are doing tactical entry and other high risk LE things. I believe the patrol carbine is better served with a magnified optic, and the personal defense sidearm better served with irons...although I am a fan of tritium and lights. ETA: I believe they absolutely have a place in recreational shooting including action competition where allowed. They are an effective tool here.

My reasoning. A personal defense sidearm is essentially a last ditch weapon. It's drawn into a hazardous situation with no time to ensure things are working properly or fiddle with switches, etc. It needs to perform as expected RIGHT NOW under extreme stress. It's often carried for long periods of time, and subject to impacts and other stresses with little attention paid to details like the function of your fancy RD sight system. In actual defensive use, it is most often used at extremely close range and pointed rather than aimed, both eyes open, maximum situational awareness. A red dot is bad news in this scenario. So is aiming your sights. This is how I shoot, this is what works for me. I shoot in some informal action matches locally, and there are some elite IDPA shooters and real life SWAT operators that attend. They tend to have sighting devices other than irons on their handguns. I am ALWAYS in the top 3 at engaging the targets inside of 7 yards, as I do not aim at them. The ones that beat me have usually learned to ignore their dot on these targets also. They pull ahead in time scores at the longer targets that are outside of normal defensive handgun ranges. The RD is a superior aiming device at longer targets IMHO, especially in terms of getting multiple hits on them.
Click to expand...
Totally agree, great case for keeping the irons for a defensive/carry pistol. In addition to target shooting and a good many drills I've picked up over the years one that I'm sure exists but wasn't explicitly shown by anybody is to drive the firearm out in front at varying distances and point shoot. I'm pretty confident with my ability whether I'm shooting aimed or pointing.
 
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