Red Dots or other Illuminated scopes on hunting rifles?

[Lone_Gunman]

I started a different thread about putting Aimpoints on hunting rifles, and that thread has drifted off into a discussion of military guns, so I would like to limit discussion in the thread to use of red dots and scopes with illuminated reticles on bolt action hunting rifles only.

Here is my situation:

1. I am using a Ruger M77 Hawkeye ultra light rifle with a 20" barrel in 308 Win. It isn't exactly a tack driver to begin with, but does OK.

2. My ranges will mostly be 100 yds or less, and extreme range would be 150 yds. I am not sure I would ever take a 150 yd shot where I am hunting because of trees and underbrush. My only accuracy goal is to get clean kills on deer at 150 yds or less. I do not care about 1" groups.

3. I am hunting in deep woods. It is never bright light, even in the middle of the day, and most of the time, the lighting is poor and its pretty dark because of tree canopy.

4. I like the red dot idea because I think I will be able to see the dot better in bad light than a scope reticle.

5. I would like to shoot the rifle with a good cheek weld. I don't want a sight thats way up above the bore.

6. I would not plan on using this red dot in the usual way red dots are used (ie, both eyes open). I would like to use it more as a regular scope.


I was looking at the Aimpoint 9000L. Would that be a good choice? How about a regular scope with an illuminated reticle? I have never used one of those before, and not sure how illuminated reticles work.

 

[browningguy]

I use both on hunting rifles, a 2x red dot on my AR in .50 Beowulf, and a lit recticle 2.5-10 scope on my AR in 6x45. Both work equally well in my mind, the lit recticle scope simply has a dot at the center of the crosshairs, looks like a red dot but with full crosshairs.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Are illuminated reticles parallax free like the red dot? Do you shoot them like a red dot or like a regular scope?

 

[FFMedic]

Either will work well. The red dot is faster on target a little bit than a low power scope. A scope has paralax, Aimpoints do not.

For 150 yards and under I would recomend a 1x Aimpoint. The 2x models have a bad FOV and is not really needed at that range. Get your Aimpoint, fit it with the lowest rings that will work with with it on your Ruger, zero it and you are good to go my friend.

Sorry to throw your other thread off track.

FFMedic

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Are illuminated reticles parallax free like the red dot?

No, they are not; but they can still be very fast. The big advantage the red dots will have is speed in situations where you may not have the best position/good cheek weld.

From what you are describing, I think you would be happier with an illuminated variable scope. It will give you some options (magnification) and it better suits the style you say you want to use.

Don't get me wrong, the red dots are fast and I think they would be great for your purposes; but if you don't plan to use both eyes open (although I shoot all sights that way, including scopes and irons), and will be using a good cheek weld every time, then an illuminated variable scope can do much the same work and offers some magnification as well.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

I really think I want a little magnification, but would be happy with. I dont really want much magnification.

 

[UnTainted]

In Idaho, we can't use anything electronic in our optics or on our rifles to hunt. If you have a scope, like a Nightforce, you have to remove the battery for it to be legal to hunt with. Of course, nobody has ever checked my scope, but the battery is removed for hunting season.

Hopefully your state is a little more lenient. Somehow Idaho, in all its conservatism, likes to root for the deer or something. hehe

 

[Lone_Gunman]

I did not realize an illuminated reticle might be illegal.

Does anyone know if it is OK to use in Georgia?

 

[dmazur]

From Idaho regs -

Rifle and Shotgun
In any hunt, including any-weapon seasons, it is unlawful to
pursue or kill big game animals:
• By any means other than approved firearms,
muzzleloaders and archery methods.
• With any electronic device attached to, or incorporated
on, the firearm or scope; Except scopes containing
battery powered or tritium lighted reticles are allowed.

I had heard of an incident involving an outdoor writer who wrote about his hunt, in detail, and later had to explain to officials that an illuminated reticle isn't the same as a laser sight that projects a beam onto a target. I believe that was what Idaho was trying to outlaw, and what they assumed he had used on his hunt. Present language (above) should make this clearer.

IMO, scopes with built-in rangefinders would not be allowed, nor would "laser sights". Just illuminated reticle scopes.

 

[UnTainted]

OH SNAP!!! dmazur you just made my day!

 

[Lone_Gunman]

So who makes the best illuminated reticle scopes?

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Trijicon Accupoint or ACOG, yes; anything else notsomuch.

Battery reliance is no good for hunting. Magnification is your friend in low light, as is high quality. Trijicon products offer both without batteries (except the tri-power of course).

Having said that, there's nothing wrong with an illuminated reticle scope, and if the batteries crap out on you, you can still use them, unlike most dot sights.

I'd prefer to rely upon a heavy duplex-type reticle in low light, or a Trijicon product myself, but sure, an illuminated reticle can certainly help sometimes in the lowest of light.

So who makes the best illuminated reticle scopes?

Well everyone and their dog makes them, including very good makers like Swarovski, etc. But if you're talking about proven quality, full line, most likely best overall *when using* the lighted reticle, no question - hands down it is Trijicon.

The 3-9x40 Accupoint is a good all-purpose choice:

http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/parts_new.cfm?categoryID=5

The 1.25-4x24 is a great woods choice.
The 2.5-10x56 would be a hard-core low-light hunting choice.

Lotta great reticle choices in the trijicons - sounds like a lucky charms commercial: red triangles, green dots, amber donuts, & blue chevrons - but it's all good good stuff Maynard.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Battery reliance is no good for hunting.

Why?

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Because, you may fall in the creek with your rifle on the way to your spot, and no time to go back. Drain the barrel, reload, and go hunt. The water will kill such a battery-operated lighting mechanism most likely. The battery could go dead at any time; and batteries and cold don't go well together - huntin season is during the coldest parts of the year. You're gonna feel mighty silly & madder than a hornet if you're on a trophy Elk hunt you shelled out $1K or more for, and your'e sitting there with your X brand red dot that won't work when you get to your spot.

Not a problem if it's a standard illuminated reticle scope. You can still go hunt with the black reticle. Only would be a problem if it's a non-FO (battery) ESD / dot sight. So there's no real harm at all in a standard illum-reticle scope, even if it craps out. Still not as good as a fiber optic one like a Trijicon, however, that WILL work always.

If you want virtually-parallax free and incredible eye relief, take a good look at the Accu Point 1.25-4x24mm with 1" tube (NOT the 1.0-4x24mm with 30mm tube, which has far less eye relief). This is a super fast, super good scope, for close and medium range hunting. Also good for EBRs.

 

[ArmedBear]

dmazur is quite correct. I was going to post that as well.

BTW I have had lithium camera batteries go stone dead on a cold weather hunt. They don't like the cold. You can keep them stuffed in your shirt to keep them warm, then use them briefly and put them back down your shirt. But why would you want to?

(We were using iron sights, so all we missed were some cool photos. Got some others, once I figured out the "down the shirt" trick.)

 

[Kernel]

I've got a Burris 3-9x40 scope with an illuminated red dot at the center of the otherwise conventional duplex cross hairs. The dot's tiny, gotta be like 1/2 or 1/4 MOA. I like it. Picked it up on close-out some years ago. Currently, it resides on a Ruger Mini-14 in 6x45, 24" heavy barrel.... and ultra-extra-super high scope rings (not really). Nice coyote gun.

For the type of short range hunting you want to do I think a plain jane 1x red dot would be splendid. That's what I like on my whitetail revolvers. Millets are okay. Ultra Dots are better.

Talk about your strange hunting regs. Wisconsin won't allow magnified scopes on muzzleloaders. Dots are okay. So, I put a 1x 30mm Ultra Dot on my .50 cal Knight MK-85.

 

[H2O MAN]

I'm running an Aimpoint Micro T-1 on a Marlin .45-70 guide gun.
I would prefer a 2 MOA dot, but the < 4 MOA dot is just fine inside 200 yards.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Another thing about cold and batteries. If it gets really really cold, and you leave your rifle INSIDE your cabin/camper, you've just set up a situation where condensation followed by rapid freezing of water around the firing pin can occur once you take that rifle from warm moist cabin to cold dry air first thing in the morning. Click instead of bang is no bueno. So, of course, you would leave your rifle in the pickup or leaning against the tree overnight in extreme cold, right? But your battery's now just been exposed to 7 hours of extreme cold - don't count on it to work. I dunno about you guys, but that Murphy character does seem to follow me on almost all my hunts. He usually sleeps like Rip Van Winkle when I'm back in the city, but jumps up wide awake when he sees I'm on my way to the wilderness!

 

[Maverick223]

Sorry if this is repetitious (didn't read all of the above and need to get going), but I think that the illuminated reticle serves the needs of a hunter much better than the red dot. Though they are not parallax free like a red dot, they can be quite useful especially when used in situations where light is limited. If you have adequate lighting I think they are unnecessary and just serve to add bulk, clutter, and weight. I think a scope that might meet your needs would be one from the new line of Trijicon Accu-Point with a RED reticle (I don't care too much for the green or amber but haven't used the new colors very much...because I don't like them ).

 

[H2O MAN]

Do hunters really need magnification at 100 to 150 yards?

 

[Kernel]

Tad, so true. Condensation can ruin a gun's finish. That why during hunting seasons I always prefer to leave my firearms outside locked in my vehicle. It's also why I like stainless guns.

I do most of my deer hunting in late December and January, so there's ussually lots of snow on the ground (sometimes flyin' in the air, too). If I have to bring it inside I make sure it's in a case and give it several hours to warm up slowly.

Haven't had any temp problems with the nothing fancy EverReady 4032 coin batteries (IIRC) I normally use, and I know the temp often gets down to -10F and below.

 

[Kernel]

Do hunters really need magnification at 100 to 150 yards?

Sure, consider it a challenge, since it can actually make it harder to hit your target.

 

[Maverick223]

Do hunters really need magnification at 100 to 150 yards?

I enjoy some low end (3-5x) magnification at those ranges, but it isn't really necessary.

 

[Kernel]

Mav, I agree. There are some really good 1.5x5 power variables on the market that are ideal for just about any type of hunting situation. The exception being specialized varmit rifles.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

The water will kill such a battery-operated lighting mechanism most likely.

Most of the scopes I have seen (and certainly the Aimpoints) are waterproof enough that I dont think that is an issue.

I don't mind carrying a spare battery in my pocket.

As for cold weather, I live in Georgia, so a cold day here is going to be in the 30s to 40s. I dont think that is going to kill a battery too quick.