Refusing to help out... from another state.

[CoRoMo]

I just wanted to ask you guys what your take was on this...

Due to the recent attacks on gun owners' rights here in Colorado, I reached out to family in four states to help bombard the Colorado legislature with requests to kill the new legislation we've seen move.

One of my very libertarian and pro-gun family members was receiving my emails along with everyone else, but he flat out refuses to get involved. Here's his view...

I've seen a disturbing trend in recent emails and a recent facebook post that I now feel obligated to speak out against.

I should probably start off with a history lesson. Virginia declared its independence from Great Britain on June 12 1776, nearly a month prior to the other 12 colonies following suit. The the new federation of sovereign states was formed in 1789, each state kept its own government thus retaining in each state the right to govern themselves. As states have joined the federation or union, the trend has followed.

When people of one state ask residents of other states to write their legislative body to try to sway public opinion regarding an issue, it is a violation of that right of self government. It is not our place as Texans, Missourians, Coloradoans or Michiganders to involve ourselves in the live of each other when it comes to state politics. Many of ills of the federal government can be traced to this interstate interfering.

Let me be perfectly clear: I will not participate in the act of lobbying the state legislature of a state in which I do not reside because I believe the people of that state can govern themselves. I will not use my supposed "tourist" dollars as political bribery to sway public opinion either. Also, I will not beseech those of other states to contact my state officials to influence their legislative vote in any way.

If you do not agree with something I said, good for you. I do not want to be apart of any further discussion regarding this topic.

Should we not be asking fellow gun owners in other states to give us a little assistance?

I know he ends the email childishly, saying that he doesn't want anyone to challenge his opinion on the matter, but regardless. How would you guys respond?

 

[jbnwc]

That's unfortunate. Without question, the "bad guys" in this case are pouring money and support in from other states. Biden was in CO this week on a "ski trip" and just happened to contact several of our state reps. We all have to stand together because they are expecting to use Colorado to expand their anti-gun push into several other states.

If only the Christians had stood up for the Jews when Hitler came along...

 

[jbnwc]

Your family member is still living in the 18th century, when states truly were independent of each other. The Democrats know how to play the political system that we are currently in and unless we can keep up, they will continue to steam-roll over everyone in their path.

 

[Sam1911]

I see what he thinks he's getting at, but he's arguing that the ant shouldn't do what the elephant does. He wants the citizens of one state to stay out of the affairs of the citizens of another state -- which is reasonably laudable -- but he's applying that idea in a world where the federal government has blown that states rights issue all to tiny bits.

 

[Bio-Chem]

His right to do as he pleases. don't copy him on further emails and keep asking for support from other members of your family

 

[JRH6856]

Just what is the logic of a citizen of one state writing to a legislator in another state either in support or opposition of a measure that in fact does not affect the writer?

I live in Texas. Why would any elected official in Colorado care what I think or have any reason to pay any attention at all to my opinion? Especially when they seem so ready and willing to ignore their own constituents?

 

[Sam1911]

That's not a bad point, of course -- if they're willing to ignore their own constituents -- but letters are letters, and many states do receive quite a bit of revenue from tourism dollars, especially hunting. If you make the pitch that your money will not be coming to his state (and lots of other folks send word that they're going to do the same) that can certainly make him see the [strike]light[/strike] dollar signs.

 

[CoRoMo]

State governments would be wise to listen to comments like this one...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8752777&postcount=247
No more hunting trips to Colorado for us, we're going else where.....we won't support a state or their economy that doesn't understand "shall not be infringed".

...lest the law makers get the idea that the state operates in a vacuum.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

I think the problem with his argument is this: campaign dollars flow freely across state lines, and the sort of activism you're talking about can help counterbalance it. Moveon.org and Bloomberg are happy to help out with Colorado anti-gun initiatives. They'll spend lots of money now, or by opposing Democrats who don't fall in line in the next election.

Citing the way things were done over 200 years ago isn't really useful in today's world. Not if you're interested in outcomes.

 

[JRH6856]

Money talks, 'tis true. I don't travel that much so my tourist dollars aren't much impact. But I guess they don't know that, do they?

I do contribute to pro 2A lobbying groups who I think have a much better chance than I of being heard.

 

[Teachu2]

How would you guys respond?

I would respond by thanking him for his time, and honoring his right to his own opinion. His point is valid - to him.

An effective out-of-state letter would read "I am in the process of assisting pro-2A companies in relocating to areas that support their rights and appreciate their jobs. Please consider further restricting firearms in your state, and let me know how I may assist you in this effort."

 

[CoRoMo]

He can't bear the light of challenge shinning upon him. That's fine.

The most important response I'd like to make is to speak to all the other family who were CC'd to that email.

But giving him a smart jab would be cool too.

 

[krameranzac]

I am a born and bred New Zealander living in New Zealand. I am a member of the NRA and just sent NRA ILA $20 to help with the fight over there. If I can do it then so should this joker!

 

[hso]

If he never intends to set foot in CO or have anything to do with it the short sighted view is that it is a local matter.

That IS shortsighted because what is happening in CO isn't just a local matter. As pointed out money and influence from outside the state is supporting the Anti side of the issue. What happens in CO becomes another block out of the foundation for the nation and emboldens the Antis to push state by state for changes they don't think they can get on the national level.

This is a prime example of why Franklin's quote, "We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately.", is so important to remember.

 

[CoRoMo]

krameranzac, you are an inspiration! You kindle hope for us that can't see through the darkness.

Being a member of a forum with thinking people is a treasure. Thanks guys.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Warning, I'm in a bit of an ornery mood this morning. It is probably caused by the ignorant PBS gun special that was on last night. Probably should have shut it off after the first five minutes.

I see his point and I would have to agree to an extent. I don't want a bunch of people from a blue state sticking their nose into a red states business.

The issue right now is that the elected officials in Colorado are being strongly influenced by the Feds. This is what happens when prop up a mediocre candidate for president and you lose elections. Colorado has been blue for a very long time. I really don't see much of a difference between the current Democrat governor and the Rhino before him. You are starting to see the same situation that the Illinois voters have been dealing with for years.

Get organized and go beat the anti-gunners at the polls next year. Then start working to repeal this stuff.

 

[CoRoMo]

...the current Democrat governor and the Rhino before him.

Hickenlooper's predecessor Ritter was a leftist Democrat. No RHINO, that's for sure.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Bill Owens was a RHINO.

 

[CoRoMo]

No argument there.

Back to the OP!

 

[Sam1911]

This might be something to show your relatives: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=704403

How do you justify standing aside and saying "let the good people of that state sort it out for themselves" when billionaires from places like NYC (and even farther abroad) are actively spending their millions to push agenda-driven politicians into office in places outside their own state or even region of the country?

It may be all well to say, "I'll be the bigger man and resist doing what I think is unethical." Meanwhile, enjoy living with the candidate Michael Bloomberg picked to rule you.

 

[Green Lantern]

This friend of yours, OP, does not live in the world that IS. He lives in the world he thinks SHOULD BE. He needs a reality check, not just for the sake of a united gun owners front, but for his own sake.

Ok, here's how I think I would play it...

It should be easy to find examples of anti-gun types who routinely spit on his reasoning - Mike Bloomberg is a great one, guy who thinks his position as Mayor of one city gives him the right to dictate gun policy to the whole NATION. Or someone like George Soros (not even an American citizen AFAIK!) bankrolling people with the same mindset.

Now, likely your buddy will spout some idealistic line like "using the tactics of the enemy makes us no better than them!"

So you bring up a hypothetical boxer. Boxer is walking down a dark alley in the bad part of town (decent boxer but not too bright). Big Mean Thug pops up, declares he's gonna beat Boxer into a bloody stain on the pavement, and proceeds to try and do just that.

So ask your friend - what's gonna happen to that Boxer if he tries to act like he's in the boxing ring, and is adhering to all the strict rules of boxing while defending himself? IE - no grappling, no low blows, no brass knuckles hidden in your shorts, etc. Trying to fight off a guy who is NOT adhering to boxing or ANY OTHER rules?

"A street fight ISN'T a boxing match, the stakes are much more serious!"

....and the stakes of the gun control battle, even at State levels, AREN'T serious???

If he does not get that, I'd consider flying the white flag and moving on to something more productive. But you may yet tell him to try searching for the term "GLOBAL NORM" in regards to the international gun control debate. Seems to be something that global gun grabbers and UN darlings IANSA love to spout. In a nutshell, the more individual countries (or States) surrender their gun rights, the more pressure there is for other countries (or States!) to do it, so everyone's on "equal footing."

OP, do please keep us updated!

 

[CoRoMo]

I'm going to have to get creative to get him to reply to ANY emails. He's been dead quiet ever since. I think he's burning with rage from the emails I sent him (Bloomberg, fight fire with fire, "hang separately"). He gets drunk on debate but he's in a corner on this one and will not respond.

...because I believe the people of that state can govern themselves.

I wonder if this line of his is even true today.

 

[CoRoMo]

I don't think any of my efforts to get this family member involved produced any fruit. Not that I know of anyway.

He just sent an email around a small group in the family. My take is that he's just trying to chide, to mock those of us who do take up the call.

It's weird. Connecticut just passed the most draconian gun law and I hear nary a word from the "United as one Nation" crowd. No emails calling for me to hold my "tourism" dollars hostage if their legislators don't capitulate to my every whim. No mass list of every legislator's email address. Surely it's not that the "hang together or hang separately" bunch only cares about what gun control when it affects them directly. Weird... must have missed them all somehow....

 

[mljdeckard]

Maybe if I belived that what happens in neighboring states has no effect on any other state, I wouldn't care.

 

[Pilot]

I believe in state's rights. If you don't like the politics of one state, you can move to another. However, with the current trend, and outside money and influence manipulating public opinion, elections, and public policy, all bets are off. In addition, the Federal Government has caused massive damage to state's rights particularly with regards to the 2A.

I vote with my feet, and my $$$. This isn't restricted to gun rights. I haven't been to Chicago nor IL since they bulldozed Meigs Field. I don't regret it either considering their 2A stance also.