Regal Movie Theater chain...

[RustyShackelford]

2 days ago I went to a new Regal movie theater in my area and saw The Ballad of Ricky Bobby. I saw a small(and I mean small) sign posted by the front doors that states; "No weapons or concealed weapons allowed" and has a red line through a revolver logo. The Regal complex had an off duty LEO in uniform guarding the property but it made me think; do most businesses have these signs? I know my state has policy information about this subject but what about other states/cities? Do you know where you can carry your CCed weapons w/o any hassles or legal problems?

Rusty

 

[Snowdog]

Your sheriff department should have brochures readily available to the public that denotes the general locations where CCW is prohibited (such as court houses, parades, locations that serve alcoholic beverages, etc).

Besides that, it's up in the air. It's the proprietor's right to forbid concealed firearms in their business, just as it's the right of a homeowner to forbid certain activities in their homes. Of course, arguments of liability can be made from both camps. However, it's good practice to make the resulting implications to the proprietor known if they do decided to restrict CCW on their property.

Around where I live, signs are usually quite conspicuous and hard to miss (assuming you're looking for such signs while carrying, which all responsible CCW recipients should do while packing). I'm sure an argument could be made if a firearm were accidently carried into a business where a sign was hard to see/in an inconspicuous location.

 

[Aikibiker]

I live in Florida when I am not out of the country no weapons signs don't effect my CCW. I just ignore those signs and go about my business. I figure if some bedwetter finds out I have a gun it is because I had to use it and I will have more problems then their hurt feelings.

 

[Wiley]

In GA those signs have no force of law.

If you're caught, managment can ask you to leave. If you don't you can be arested for tresspass.

 

[atlctyslkr]

I live in Georgia as well. I travel to alot of reciprocity states and the laws are all very similar. Those signs mean nothing. A few states like Texas have very specific wording that is required to make them valid.

 

[TexasRifleman]

A few states like Texas have very specific wording that is required to make them valid.

Very true. In fact in Texas you see businesses INTENTIONALLY putting up the wrong sign. It placates the soccer moms, but doesn't keep out the CHL holder at all.

 

[skidmark]

Don't believe everything you hear about

"No Guns" signs not having the force of law.

caveat: IANAL and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

As private property owners/managers, Regal Cinemas can set almost whatever conditions they want regarding who is not welcome there.

In most jurisdictions if you are discovered carrying in defiance of their "No Guns" policy you will be asked to leave immediately - no refund of your ticket or popcorn/soda. In some places you may be asked for identification information (name, address) so they can send you written notice of being barred from the property. Refusal to leave the property once "requested" to do so is usually criminal trespass - usually a misdemeanor. Refusal to provive identification information may be either a misdemeanor or civil offense. Violation of a notice to not enter is usually a misdemeanor, but may be a felony if you are armed at the time. Check your local criminal and civil codes for specifics in your jurisdiction.

The Virginia Citizens Defense League www.vcdl.org has been running a postcard protest campaign against Regal Cimemas for the last few years. They set up at all the gun shows and provide a pre-printed postcard and the stamp, all you are asked to do is sign your name and put your own retuen address on the card. To date it has not changed corporate policy, but I know from personal contact with the managers of two of their theaters that local and corporate are aware of the protest. It may be a :banghead: situation, but I do fill out a postcard every gunshow and do not go to Regal theaters.

It may not change their policy, but then you never know which :banghead: will be the one to cause the wall to collapse.

stay safe.

skidmark

 

[knuckles]

Refusal to provive identification information may be either a misdemeanor or civil offense.

Skid: what would be an example of a civil offense? Do you mean something they could sue you for? Because I know that, unless I am writting a check, using my credit card or buying beer, the only person that's going see my ID is a LEO.

EDIT: additionally, if you refused to leave, could you be charged with felony armed tresspass?

 

[GT]

Connecticut, despite being painfully Liberal in many ways, has only two restrictions on where you may carry: if it's a Federal no-carry area or a school.
This saves looking for signs and worrying about regulations and statutes.
On the other hand I don't think anyone much in CT actually owns a handgun, let alone actually carries one.

G

 

[mogunner]

Regal Movie Theatre chain

Missouri's Concealed carry law, gives Business and Private property owners the Right to bar concealed carry on their premisis. Violation of this is Criminal Trespass and is a Misdemeanor.

 

[qlajlu]

Okay, color me "stupid" if you want, but I have a perplexing question concerning these establishments that post signs, be they compliant or non-compliant with their respective state laws.

According to the posts in this thread, in some states, one of the things that can be "done to you" is being asked to leave the property as there is no specific law restricting the CCW'er (leave Texas out because they are very specific). Obviously, the property owner's desires are apparent by the posting of a sign.

My questions is: Could simply being on this property while disregarding the signage be a reason for the owner of the property to obtain a restraining order against you if he/she found out you were armed? Would that reason be reasonable?

We all know the implications of a restraining order on gun ownership.

 

[hso]

Different states have different rules on blocking access to carry. Some have minimal requirements. Some of them have specific posting requirements that the posting has to be of a certain size and have specific language. Some don't have anything more specific than

Notice of such prohibition shall be posted in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the building, portion of the building or buildings where weapon possession is prohibited.

Where the state has a posting requirement to prohibit carry they usually define violating the posting as some sort of trespass with penalties.

 

[Technosavant]

Missouri's Concealed carry law, gives Business and Private property owners the Right to bar concealed carry on their premisis. Violation of this is Criminal Trespass and is a Misdemeanor.

No, it isn't. If they ask you to leave and you do, no crime has been committed. If they ask you to leave and you do not, then if a peace officer needs to be summoned, you can be given a citation that carries a $100 fine. This is specifically NOT a criminal offense under the MO law.

I have seen some places that have posted signs smaller that that which the MO law requires (roughly a tabloid-sized piece of paper with 1" high letters). Generally, I will try to take business elsewhere if such is the case, but if I cannot, I just ignore the improper signage. Other times, the business has gone out of its way to post a sign in a less-than-conspicuous place. I disagree that we need to look all over for a sign before entering- if the business owner is serious about it, let him or her post the sign on the front door or right next to it. If you hide it, then you are trying to have it both ways. However, if such ignoring of inconspicuous signs is a criminal act in your state (it is NOT in MO), then maybe you should be sure to look.

At the end of the day, concealed means concealed. If they have an illegal sign or have it in a strange place, then it is still a nonissue so long as you keep it hidden.

 

[sonofodin]

:banghead:. enough said.

 

[Cueball]

Sadly, in Ohio if you carry in a place that has the proper signage posted, it IS a criminal offence and being carted off to jail is a definite possibility. I've heard of a couple cases where a pro-gun LEO just told the "offender" to be more careful next time and be sure not to carry on the premises of that buisness.

 

[Leanwolf]

RUSTY SHACKLEFORD - ".... 2 days ago I went to a new Regal movie theater in my area..."

So where's your area???????????

L.W.

 

[AJ Dual]

As others have said, it all depends on your state.

Some states, any sinage has the force of law.

Some, like Texas, only the "official" sign has the force of law.

Some states have no official sinage, no sign has the force of law, and they have to notify you in person.

Many, they have to ask you to leave in person. Only if you refuse is it a violation.

Check www.packing.org for your particular state.

Personaly, I like the "no official sign" and they have to ask you to leave in person states, and I hope WI goes this way. It's a good compromise that respects private property rights, but also gives wink-n-nod acceptance to the notions that "concealed means concealed" and "what they don't know won't hurt them".

IMO, when it comes to carrying concealed on private, but open to the public, property, they have the right to set the policy they want, but what's under your clothes is your business, assuming you can keep it that way. Allowing the business to expell the people who "get made" seems like a fair solution.

 

[ProguninTN]

Prohibition

hso cites T.C.A. 39-17-1359 in that post. If in our state, that's the sign to look for. In my experience, I worked for a Carmike (rival of Regal) Cinema that posted no guns but the sign was not compliant. I and my co-workers scoffed at non-compliant sign and carried guns and knives and kept our mouths shut.

 

[RustyShackelford]

active shooter incidents/signs/CCed weapons

Thanks gang for the input.

Here are some more thoughts;

I disagree with a business policy that refuses to allow legal/valid CCW holders access to their business/property. I think the problem is the fact that many citizens have little or no understanding of CCW/gun laws and/or are scared #%&*-less of a violent incident or civil lawsuit involving weapons.

I for 1 would want to be armed if an "active shooter" or nutbag or terrorist started to shoot at mall/theater/restaurant patrons. It's not to remote to think that can happen today.

As far as the sign issue, I agree with the posts about proper, easy to see signs. In 1999, I was cited by a PGC(PA Game Commission) officer for $139.00 because of the "rules" posted on a sign . The letters were very small and so was the PGC sign. I was later found not guilty by a district justice and my $139.00 was refunded, .
I also worked as a 085/Security Guard for a US Dept of Veterans Affairs Medical Center that had a VA employee win his case because the VA police/security service did not post proper signs about firearms, ammo, wepons. A hammerhead 083/police officer I worked with pushed criminal charges on a guy because he had a loaded firearm locked up in his POV(privately owned vehicle). The VA employee fought the charges and was cleared because of the lack of signs on VAMC property. The VA police chief and other 083 officers thought this was a BS case but had to put it in court because of the officer, .

Rusty

 

[Thefabulousfink]

Regal pretty much has a monopoly on theaters in our town. Before the AMC theater was built down town there was only 1 non-Regal theater in town and it is a single screen that charges $2.50 and show movies 3 months after they are released. It has been in use since the 1950's (possibly earlier) and is a historic landmark. When Regal came to town and bought up all the theaters they made an offer on this old one for the purpose of shutting it down and owning all the theaters within 50 miles.

Back on topic:

I still go to Regal theaters on occasion b/c the AMC is on the other side of town. I never new about their firearms policy until I read a post here on THR. The next time I went to a movie I made a point of looking, and sure enough, there was a sign.

It was small, about the size of a coster, and displayed at the back of the ticket booth with all the other various inspection and fire hazard forms. It took me a few minutes of actively looking for it to find it. I had talked with a lawyer some time ago about the terms of a contract and he told me that you can argue that some terms are void, not because you can't see them, but a normal person WOULDN'T see them. For example, specific terms burried in the middle of a long paragraph of small text.

I had carried many times in Regal theaters before noticing this sign and if I had somehow been caught I could make the case that the Management failed to make their desire to be "gun free" clear.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

First of all, if they can't see it, then they don't know you are carrying. If they don't know you are carrying, then they can't ask you to leave.
Lesson #1: Be discreet.
Secondly, I choose not to patronize businesses that don't support my 2nd Amendment rights. Some of that money I give them might get donated to our enemies.
Third, I've never understood how libs can believe that a sign on the door will stop someone who has already decided to BREAK THE LAW BY KILLING OR STEALING? Do they actually believe the bad guy is going to say to himself "Gee, the sign says I can't go in here with a gun so I guess I'll have to rob someplace else."?

 

[xd9fan]

just carry

 

[f4t9r]

I see them in Ohio all the time

 

[ID_shooting]

This came up in a thread I started not too long back.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=209168&highlight=regal

I object to the camp that states "concealed means concealed." By deffinition, don't we try to follow the rules whenever possible, I mean, we can't just pick and choose which rules/laws we wish to abide by, can we?

I instead choose to take the posted establishments head on. I usually do not win, but in two cases I did. Point is, they post we are not welcome, fine, I won't spend my money there. If they change thier mind, great, if not, I go elsewhere.

I do not agree with the premise that they are free to post any restriction they wish and still be open to the public by charging admission. but until they or the law changes, I will give them thier wish.

 

[skidmark]

Skid: what would be an example of a civil offense? Do you mean something they could sue you for? Because I know that, unless I am writting a check, using my credit card or buying beer, the only person that's going see my ID is a LEO.

EDIT: additionally, if you refused to leave, could you be charged with felony armed tresspass?

At least here in VA trespass comes in 2 varieties - civil & criminal. You could commit either - or both - offenses at the same time.

AFAIK VA does not have an "felony armed trespass" offense, but there is probably something like it they could hang on you.

Again, IANAL but --

preemption laws only regulate the conduct of the gooberment. Even if the property owner/manager hangs out a sign that is not compliant with a state law requiring specific words in specific type size and font, in specific color, the property owner/manager can set the rules for what they will or will not allow. Those property owners who fall into the "public-access" arena do have to put up with the various anti-discrimination laws, but ccw-ing is not yet a protected class.

It all comes down to what you are willing to risk. If you do not want to risk an invitation to immediately leave - with or without the assistance of your local LEO - then you will "respect" the NO GUNS signs by not carrying there. If you do not want to risk your safety/security then you will respect the NO GUNS sign by not entering the posted property, thus remaining ccw-ed.

I just see anything else as some form of rationalization for either illegal or uncivil behavior.

Sure, if Regal Cimemas has the lock on movie theaters in your town you will face hard times. But if the issue of ccw is important to you, you will either go elsewhere where you as a ccw-ing person are welcome or will rent the movie later on. Maybe once or twice you will buy a ticket then ask the manager for a refund before you go in the doors, saying you saw the NO GUNS sign only after you bought the ticket.

But let's face it - Regal and the local manager do not care if you stop patronizing them. They don't care if you picket in front of their property -- as long as you are on public property when you do it.

As I see it, not until ccw-ers as a group are willing to stand up in public and complasin about being punished because of the criminal behavior of the bad guys will ccw-ers get anywhere on this issue.

In the meantime ...

stay safe.

skidmark