Reliability of Pocket 9's Kel-Tec PF9 vs Kahr CM9 vs Diamondback DB9

[MikeInOr]

I carry a LCP every day in my front right pocket and I am quite pleased with it. When I want to "load up" I carry a XDs 45acp 3.3 iwb. Sometimes I would like something in between and have been looking at pocket 9's. The S&W Shield is a bit to big and I might as well carry my XDs. Even the Ruger LC9 is a bit bigger than I can feel comfortable with in my pocket.

I narrowed my choices down to Kel-Tec PF9, Kahr CM9 or a Diamondback DB9. I would really like to hear user experiences of these pistols from actual owners! Good and bad.

I really don't give a hoot about the trigger feel as long as they go bang when they are supposed to. I own and shoot a Webley MK VI in double action without a problem (Webley MK VI is the worst double action trigger ever manufactured. Most of my friends aren't able to even pull the trigger through the entire double action stroke no less aim at the same time.) My LCP has a great trigger for a carry gun. Stiff enough that it doesn't go off accidentally. I looked seriously at the Sig 938 but carrying a single action locked and cocked bothers me. My 1911's have match triggers set at about 3lbs which is perfect for a match gun but makes me hesitant about single action for a carry gun.

Safeties don't bother me, I can live with them or without them. The lack of a slide hold open on the DB9 is a drag but not a deal killer. 6 or 7 rounds doesn't make a difference to me. I seriously considered a DoubleTap in .45 but have read too many negatives about them as far as being very picky with ammo and the possibility of a double fire (firing both barrels at the same time).

Reliability is my main concern! I would appreciate any feed back on these pistols if you own one of them or have owned one of them. I am not really interested in a buddy's gun or what you have read on the internet about them... I have read a lot of internet hearsay posts myself. I have also considered the Beretta Nanos and haven't completely ruled out an LC9s.

Unfortunately I do not have a local dealer that carries all three of these pistols so I can handle them at the same time. The last somewhat close indoor range that rents guns just closed down do to air quality so actually test firing them isn't an option.

 

[Yo Mama]

My keltec pf9 has been great, no failures so far, however I have only honestly put about 200 rounds through it in it's lifetime. It's a gun I held onto for when my girls get older. I don't like shooting it because it's a beast with the recoil.

 

[MikeInOr]

My keltec pf9 has been great, no failures so far, however I have only honestly put about 200 rounds through it in it's lifetime. It's a gun I held onto for when my girls get older. I don't like shooting it because it's a beast with the recoil.

Thanks for the reply. There seem to be a lot of happy PF9 owners out there. I know any pocket 9 will not be a joy to shoot... but that isn't really their purpose. I am not afraid of the recoil and if I ever have to defend myself with it I am sure I won't even notice the recoil.

What ammo do you carry in it? The Ruger ARX ammo looks very interesting. I am going to pick up some ARX for my LCP and give it a try.

 

[1KPerDay]

The Kahr. EVERY time. My PF-9 was a hilariously bad piece of garbage. The design itself is laughably bad. The plastic flexible frame (right side) is responsible for proper trigger reset. A tiny leg of the trigger spring is responsible to ride in a tiny groove in the improperly hardened trigger bar to locate the bar and help reset. Long story short: my PF-9 broke a trigger bar at 58 rounds. Multiple reset issues began starting around 600 rounds. Slide broke at 790 rounds.

I've stopped trying to be an apologist for this pistol. It's terrible. I gave it a more than fair shake and replaced multiple parts trying to get it to work.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ide-broken-giving-up-on-this-platform.821856/

I keep it around to let range guests try a couple shots until they inevitably say they never want to shoot one again.

 

[bgw45]

After the first 50 rounds my CM9 has been totally reliable. Well over a 1k now w/o a single issue. Not looking to change any time soon. JMHO

 

[Hokie_PhD]

I have a PF9 that I got many years ago.
With a good cleaning, polishing, and some range time it’s been great. It requires good form and not limp writing.

The trigger isn’t great but functional.

It’s size is the main reason I got it. I’d say if you get one at a good price it’s a good option. But since I got mine there are many other good options. So shop around.

 

[GBExpat]

I have been carrying my PF9 since I bought it NIB in July'07. Since replacing the OEM trigger with a Northwood ~5 years ago, it has actually become a pleasure for me to shoot. It has been accurate & reliable.

That said, there are probably (almost certainly), now, other options featuring a like form-factor that are as good or better ... I have never researched them simply because what I have had for the past decade "ain't broke".

 

[bannockburn]

I had a PF9 and didn't care for it's heavy trigger or design ergonomics. Felt recoil was pretty bad. Looked at the Beretta Nano and the Kahr CM9. The CM9 had a great DAO trigger, very smooth and even. It also had a better overall feel to it than the Nano. Went with the CM9 and am totally pleased with it's performance. Easy and comfortable to carry with a DeSantis SOF-TUCK holster.

 

[C0untZer0]

You're limited in your ammo selection for the DB9. Due to potential cyclical problems involving recoil energy, Diamondback Firearms does not recommend the use of any 9mm SAAMI Specification ammunition in bullet weights exceeding 124 grain. That means no 135gr ammo and no 147gr ammo.

My CM9 cycles everything including 147gr HST and 147gr Winchester Ranger "T" Series - RA9T

I have not had a failure to feed, failure to eject, failure to fire or failure to return to battery with my CM9. It runs like a champ.

 

[Mike J]

I only have a few hundred rounds through it but my CM 9 has been fine. I like it a lot.

 

[cc-hangfire]

I’ve owned all three (still have two).

Yes to the Kahr CM9. It is truly a pocket 9mm. I have one and carry it in a kydex holster.

Yes to the Kel Tec PF9. I had one and it functioned fine, but the ergonomics didn’t fit my hand. I have several other Kel Tecs & trust them for EDC (P3AT, P11, P32 occasionally). The PF9 is just over the limit for pocket carry for me (& I’m 6’ tall & wear comfortable dress slacks mostly).

No, no, no to the Diamondback DB9. I have one. It sheared the rear rails; I bought it used, so I don’t know the round count but the slide wear doesn’t show extensive use. DB made it right and gave me replacement parts at no costs, but I would never trust it as an EDC gun. If the frame/rails were steel, I believe it would be a winner.

 

[MikeInOr]

I appreciate all the replies!

I stopped by Sportsmans Warehouse on my lunch break. They had the Kel Tec PF9 and a Kahr CW9 which is bigger than the the CM9. The triggers on both of them were very acceptable to me. I collect WWI and WWII military rifles and pistols so I am used to REALLY bad triggers.

Sizewise the PF9 is about as big as I want to go. I could still fit it in my front jeans pocket. Both the PF9 and CW9 were really nice guns! From what I have read the CM9 should be just as nice as the CW9.

The PF9:
Kel-Tec PF-9 9 x 19mm
Frame: Aluminum/Polymer
MSRP: $333
Operation: DAO, Slide Catch
Capacity: 7 +1
Barrel/Overall Length: 3.06/5.85”
Height: 4.36”
Width: 0.84”
Weight Empty: 14.7 oz.
Weight Fully Loaded: 18 oz.

The CM9:
Kahr PM9093/CM9093 9 x 19 mm
Frame: Polymer
MSRP: PM9093 $786
MSRP: CM9093 $517
Operation: DAO, Slide Catch
Capacity: 6 +1
Barrel/Overall Length: 3.0/5.68”
Height: 4.2”
Width: 1.08”
Weight Empty: 16.9 oz.
Weight Fully Loaded: 20 oz.

The Nano:
Beretta Nano 9 x 19 mm
Frame: Stainless
MSRP: $475
Operation: DA
Capacity: 6+1
Barrel/Overall Length: 3.07/5.63”
Height: 4.28”
Width: 0.90”
Weight Empty: 17.67 oz.
Weight Fully Loaded: 21 oz.

The LC9:
Ruger LC9 9 x 19mm
Frame: Glass Filled Nylon
MSRP: $449
Operation: DA; Slide Catch;
Manual Safety
Capacity: 7 +1
Barrel/Overall Length: 3.09/5.89”
Height: 4.5”
Width: 1.0”
Weight Empty: 17.2 oz.
Weight Fully Loaded: 21 oz.

The DB9:
Diamondback DB9
Frame: Steel
MSRP: $(???)
Operation: DAO
Capacity: 6 +1
Barrel/Overall Length: 2.9/5.6”
Height: 4.0”
Width: 0.80”
Weight Empty: 12.8 oz
Weight Fully Loaded: 16 oz.

The 938:
SIG Sauer P398 9 x 19mm
Frame: Anodized Aluminum
MSRP: $809
Operation: SAO; Slide Lock;
Ambi Manual Safety, Nite Sights
Capacity: 6 +1
Barrel/Overall Length: 3.0/5.9”
Height: 3.9”
Width: 1.1”
Weight Empty: 17.2 oz.
Weight Fully Loaded: 20 oz.


From my research on the internet the Diamondback DB9 (somewhere someone gave me the impression Diamondback is owned by Taraus?) is smaller than both PF9 and CM9. But is doesn't seem to have the market penetration and has mixed reviews for reliability.

The Kahr CM9 is on sale for $299 at Cabelas. Order it online then pick it up in the store. I really like stainless steel guns / slides! The PF9 is $279 at the local Sportsmans Warehouse... and the sales person behind the counter was a putz. I am leaning towards the CM9 even though the closest I have handled is the CW9. The CM9 is listed with a width of 1.08". Is that because of the protruding take down lever? I need to hit a couple of the local mom and pop shops and see if one might have both.

Does the CM9 hold the slide open after the last round? It does not look like it has an external slide release if it does have a slide hold open? The PF9 did have the external slide release. I read the DB9 does not.

 

[Cycletroll]

I frequently Appendix carry or pocket carry a CM9. Contrary to Kahr's owners manual mine did not take 200 rounds to break in.
I have about 500 rounds thru it now including 147gr HST, 124+p Gold Dot, 9BPLE (+p+ 115gr) and it has been flawless! It astounds me that a pistol this small can be so accurate. I was able to hit a coke can offhand at 40 yards with it. IMO the Kahr has one of the best CCW triggers: safe and accurate!
I also have a CT9 ($225 thru Grabagun) and will shortly be adding a CW40 and a CT45.
Kahr's are astounding values. Quality, durable, and accurate and easy to shoot.
On the Kahr forum there is a guy with a PM9 with over 30,000 rounds on it!

BTW, 147gr HST is the best carry round for the 3" autos IMO. Does ~900fps out of my CM9, is accurate and expands every time (verified personally in Clear Ballistics Gel).

 

[Mike J]

Yes, the CM9 has a slide stop.

 

[MikeInOr]

I’ve owned all three (still have two).

Yes to the Kahr CM9. It is truly a pocket 9mm. I have one and carry it in a kydex holster.

Yes to the Kel Tec PF9. I had one and it functioned fine, but the ergonomics didn’t fit my hand. I have several other Kel Tecs & trust them for EDC (P3AT, P11, P32 occasionally). The PF9 is just over the limit for pocket carry for me (& I’m 6’ tall & wear comfortable dress slacks mostly).

No, no, no to the Diamondback DB9. I have one. It sheared the rear rails; I bought it used, so I don’t know the round count but the slide wear doesn’t show extensive use. DB made it right and gave me replacement parts at no costs, but I would never trust it as an EDC gun. If the frame/rails were steel, I believe it would be a winner.

Thank you! I haven't found very many DB9 owners that are fans... I think I am ruling out the DB9.

The specs say the CM9 is a bigger gun than the PF9... but that doesn't really mean anything! Do you recall a size difference between the PF9 and CM9? I believe I am understanding from your post that the CM9 feels like a smaller gun to you? $299 seems like a great deal on a CM9 and I am really leaning towards this Kahr. My XDs is only 1.1" wide but it definitely isn't a pocket pistol. Of course the XDs has a considerably longer OAL and weight than the CM9.

I started with a CZ25 .25acp vest pocket pistol. Then went to a NAA guardian .32 when they first came out. Then switched to the LCP I am carrying now. My XDs is great for hiking in the woods or mountain biking on the trails but I always have a mouse gun on me every day no matter what I am wearing and where I am going. I would really like a 9mm pocket gun for the extra sting.

 

[bannockburn]

cc-hangfire

I had one and it functioned fine, but the ergonomics didn’t fit my hand. I have several other Kel Tecs & trust them for EDC (P3AT, P11, P32 occasionally). The PF9 is just over the limit for pocket carry for me (& I’m 6’ tall & wear comfortable dress slacks mostly).

That was my take with the PF9 as well: ergonomics just didn't feel right to me and the PF9 was just a tad too big for pocket carry (at least for me). Ended up trading it for a P3AT which is perfect in size for pocket carry.

 

[cc-hangfire]

.,. The specs say the CM9 is a bigger gun than the PF9... but that doesn't really mean anything! Do you recall a size difference between the PF9 and CM9?
...

Check out whichgun.com to compare firearms.
CM9 has height 4.0”, length 5.3”, & width 0.91”
PF9 has height 4.3”, length 5.9”, & width 0.87”
Not much difference, but the CM9 is the top limit for me for pocket carry.

Best of luck to you!

 

[cocojo]

I have two PF9's and one is totally reliable and accurate. The other one is a bit more finicky. I also like the original DAO Ruger LC9 they are very reliable. Hard to find an older LC9, I wish they still made them. Kel Tec has pretty much fixed all the problems they had with the PF9 these days including the extractor spring. I can afford more expensive guns but the PF9 is a good choice if that's what you like.

 

[Eagle103]

Another flawless CM9 here. Great little gun.

 

[MikeInOr]

I was going off this chart for dimensions:
http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf

I am confident they were pretty careful in collecting their stats. But stats don't really tell the whole story. I just read on the Kahr site that the slide is .91". I am guessing the slide release (Or is that the take down lever? Or both like a 1911?) bumps the over all width to the 1.08" reported on the chart. Of course I read that as the Kahr being thicker all the way around. Thanks for the clarification! I was also reading the weight on a Kahr CW9 at 24 oz instead of the CM9 at 16.9 oz, just 2 oz heavier than the PF9 at 14.9oz. I was picturing a the Kahr being a much bigger gun!

I am really glad I asked about these, I learned a lot! I think I am sold on the Kahr CM9. Both seem to be great guns with a lot of loyal fans. At only $20 more I don't think I can go wrong with the Kahr! ...I really like the stainless slide on the Kahr.

 

[franco45]

You will be glad you chose the Kahr. I agree with all the other CM9 owners that have commented so far. I like mine a lot. I pocket carry it in cargo pants but switch to my RM380 or Pico when I wear jeans.

 

[MikeInOr]

I just ordered the Kahr off Cabelas website. It will show up in the store in 5-8 days. I am looking forwards to when it arrives!

I appreciate everyone's help and information!

 

[Charlie98]

I carry either a CM9 or CW9... complete interchangeability between holsters, and the CW9 mags fit in the CM9 so I don't have to juggle extra mags. I have found my Kahr 9's to be 100% reliable, and this is across 5 different pistols... yes, I like them so much I have a CM9 and 3 other CW9's.

A friend of mine has a PF9, they are small... smaller than the CM9 for sure. Given that, however, it was an ergonomic nightmare for me, and trying to shoot that awful trigger... well, let's just say a bad guy would have a pretty good chance, not so much with the Kahrs.

 

[GBExpat]

I am posting this for any reading this Thread who are considering (or have) a PF9 ...

Here is a pic of my PF9. The two things missing are the bicycle inner-tube cover that I have on the grip and the replacement Northwood trigger.

I have rounded & reduced the bottom of the trigger guard where it meets the grip. I have also reshaped the mag extension to make the profile minimal and not "pointy".

In this configuration all 3 of my fingers (size Large gloves w/long, thin fingers), even in unlined leather patrol gloves, comfortably fit on the grip.



BTW, bannockburn, I really like the look of that CM9 ... thanks for adding the pic.

 

[MedWheeler]

I've been carrying the KT since April of 2010. In July of 2012, I replaced the blued slide assembly with a hard-chromed one to stave off the Florida rust effect.

I've not had any issues with the gun, though it likely hasn't had more than maybe 600 rounds through it in my hands. It was used, so I can't speak for its history. It appears to have been made in 2008, if I remember right. I use this gun and similar guns in .22LR when I practice. The PF9 is every bit as rude in the hand as most people say it is, but it can be managed by almost anyone with a mind to, especially someone who collects and shoots military-surplus guns (I have plans to shoot my PF9 and my Radom P64, the latter of which I haven't fired yet, side-by-side, for some dual-hand punishment/comparison one of these days.)

My PF9 is not a pocket-carry gun in "regular fit" jeans. It just prints too much. Trying to do that is how I ended up with its little sister, the P32.

Were I in the market now, with guns at their current prices, the Kahr would be a strong contender. In fact, it would probably win out, as I do appreciate quality in craftsmanship as well.