Reloading 7.63x39 for a single-shot rifle

[walker944]

Years ago I purchased a Rossi 7.62x39 single shot rifle before learning that you can not fire milsurp ammo in them. Like many others that purchased that rifle, I thought it would make a great little plinker or small-to-mid game rifle, while using dirt cheap ammo that I already had tons of. Well, that was the thought process. The reality proved to be different. After the purchase and several disappointing trips to the range with my new prize, and a subsquent call to Rossi/Taurus, I learned that the milsurp ammo primer (made for rifles with floating firing pins) is much too hard for the wimpy firing pin in the single shot Rossi. So, the rifle has sat in my safe for a few years. Every once in a while I think about alternative solutions to the problem, but none have worked out.

Recently I acquired some reloading equipment and thought I'd get into reloading. In the process of reading and learning (from posts in this and other forums as well as in the ABCs of Reloading) I've learned that different primers have different hardness and seating depths. In going through the learning process, I got to thinking about my Rossi single-shot. I'm wondering if I can reload milsurp ammo with a commerical (softer) primer for the Rossi single-shot? If not, is there a brass/primer combination that will work?

So, I have a few questions.

1) Is anyone successfully reloading milsurp brass for a single-shot (non-floating firing pin) rifle? If so, what primer do you use?

2) Does anyone reload for a single shot 7.62x39 using commercial brass? If so, I'd like to hear your experiences and what brand brass works best...and what to avoid.

3) What primer size (small or large) is needed for the 7.62x39 case?

4) Can commercial primers be used in milsurp brass?

 

[NCsmitty]

Most milsurp ammo is berdan primed and are not compatible with commercial boxer style primers.

Sell your surplus ammo(it's in demand right now)and get some Prvi-Partizan brass or any standard boxer style brand and start loading.
Standard commercial primers of most manufacturer's will be fine. I do believe that they are all LR primer in that brass.
That's a fine little rifle, so get out and enjoy it.

NCsmitty

 

[rdhood]

So, I have a few questions.

1) Is anyone successfully reloading milsurp brass for a single-shot (non-floating firing pin) rifle? If so, what primer do you use?

Most milsurp is berdan primed steel. Most people dont reload it.

2) Does anyone reload for a single shot 7.62x39 using commercial brass? If so, I'd like to hear your experiences and what brand brass works best...and what to avoid.

Shoot, for commercial brass (Winchster and such) is no problem.

3) What primer size (small or large) is needed for the 7.62x39 case? Most are large primers, though there is some small primer brass out there (Remington does both large and small primer 7.62x39). For milsurp guns, most people use a stiffer primer (IIRC, cci #34?), but you should have no problems at all using a normal large rifle primer.

4) Can commercial primers be used in milsurp brass?

See above. What is the obsession with milsurp brass? I have about 1000 reloadable 7.62x39 boxer primed brass, and non of it is milsurp.
__________________

 

[walker944]

Obsession???

What is the obsession with milsurp brass?

Well, that's a simple one...I works great in my Aks, MAC-90s and WASR-10s. As I stated, I already had plenty of it. So why not try to to use it for the single-shot (if feasible)!!!

 

[mkl]

My first thought is to try to find a gunsmith that can strengthen (replace) the spring in your Rossi so it will fire the military primers.

The biggest "watch out" in reloading for the 7.62x39 is to make sure your brass uses boxer and not berdan primers. Berdan primed brass is very difficult to reload. It will also break the decapping pin on your sizing die if you try to knock the primer out. Much of the milsurp stuff from Europe, Russia, and China is berdan primed. Lots of info on the web.

Assuming you have cases with a boxer primer pocket, any of the commercial primers will work fine -- just stay away from the CCI one designed for military rifles. Boxer primer pocket dimensions are standard, so any brand of case will accept any brand of primer. I believe the 7.62x39 uses large rifle size.

 

[walker944]

How can you tell if it is Berdan primed

Most milsurp ammo is berdan primed and are not compatible with commercial boxer style primers.

The milsurp I have was purchased in the 90s. How can I tell if it is Berdan primed or boxer primed?

 

[Ranger J]

I am now in the process of reloading the 762/39 brass that I have picked up over the years. So far about 3 out of 5 use large primers and the other 2 use small primers. I don't know what this is going to do to the groups. These are just occasional brass that I have gleaned over the years. I am loading these to use in the Rem 799 that I soon hope to have.
The only problem I have so far is that with Lee equipment ti takes their #12 shell holder for both the press and the primer tool. If my Lee sets ever had a #12 in either I must have lost both. I guess I need to look at new sets and see if they have added that one since I bought mine years ago. I'll probably have to liquidate both my SKS and Saiga to afford the 799 but with the price of mil sup going up so much over the last few years a bolt action will probably save me money in the long run.

RJ

 

[armoredman]

Look inside the case, if you see two flashholes instead of one, it's Berdan. Berdan has the anvil built into the case, while Boxer has the anvil built into the primers. So, you need a skinny "tuning fork" deprimer, BIG pain.
Sell your surplus, big market for it, and buy reloadable brass boxer primed ammo. I love reloading 7.62x39mm for my vZ-58. Freaks people out, too, seeing reloads in an EBR...

 

[walker944]

Armoredman - Good info on how to detect for Berdan primer. I checked mine and YES it is Berdan. So, using existing supply of brass is out of the question.

Incidentally, I have other rifles that will fire the 7.62x39 ammo, so I won't be selling it. I bought 3k rounds back in the 90s when it was $89/k. I guess I could make a handsome profit, but just don't want to.

 

[NCsmitty]

The milsurp I have was purchased in the 90s. How can I tell if it is Berdan primed or boxer primed?

As armoredman mentioned, the two flash holes in the case are the tell tale signs of berdan primers.

I did not consider that you had other arms that uses the round. I guess you're all set and have no reason to sell.

Just buy some commercial ammo or brass and load for your single shot. Keep that ammo separate for that rifle only.

You can always sell the fired berdan brass for scrap.

NCsmitty

 

[walker944]

Hard primers in commercial ammo?

Thanks for all the input so far....looks like we are all on the same page here. My stock of brass is Berdan primed, so I will not pursue reloading it for my single-shot.

So moving along...I also understand some commercially made ammo has hard primers for use in firearms with floating firing pins. I definitely want to avoid those!! Does anyone know of a commercial 7.62x39 round that using the softer primer?

 

[R.W.Dale]

So moving along...I also understand some commercially made ammo has hard primers for use in firearms with floating firing pins. I definitely want to avoid those!! Does anyone know of a commercial 7.62x39 round that using the softer primer?

You shouldn't have any trouble with domestically loaded ammunition. Contrary to popular wisdom it likely isn't the hardness of the primers found loaded in steel cased ammo causing your issues. But rather the fact that they're recessed a goodly bit from the surface of the case head.

One thing you do have to watch out for is I've found domestic ammo that has a poorly formed shoulder and reloading dies that will do the same if FL sizing. Allowing the firing pin to push the cartridge into the chamber too far to ignite. The best thing you can do loading 7.62x39 to avoid this is buy a case gauge and use it to set your sizing die up properly.

 

[rdhood]

If you have brass that is berdan primed, you might take a look at converting it to boxer:

http://users.ameritech.net/mchandler/primer.html

If you don't want to try, why not offer it for a nominal fee to someone who will (I would have a go at it).

 

[walker944]

Thanks rdhood - Looks like it's worth giving that procedure a try. I got nothing to loose, but a lot to gain.

 

[walker944]

One thing you do have to watch out for is I've found domestic ammo that has a poorly formed shoulder

Krochus - Is this typically a brand specific issue on the commercial ammo? At this point I need to purchase some US made commerical ammo, but want to avoid the sunken in primer and poorly formed shoulder issue you mentioned.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Krochus - Is this typically a brand specific issue on the commercial ammo? At this point I need to purchase some US made commerical ammo, but want to avoid the sunken in primer and poorly formed shoulder issue you mentioned.

I've only ran across this issue with Remington component brass and factory loads.......but then again that's all I've tried

 

[walker944]

Thanks again.

I'm going to pose the question over on the Rifle section of the forum, and see if there are other single shot users out there with experience with the cartidge.


Anybody reloading commerical ammo for use in a Single-shot rifle? If so, any commercial ammo brand preferences, primer preferences? Would certainly like to hear your experiences and opinions.

-

 

[R.W.Dale]

Thanks again.

I'm going to pose the question over on the Rifle section of the forum, and see if there are other single shot users out there with experience with the cartidge.

Thanks guys!

You should really pay GBO a visit and ask in the NEF (same issues) and or Rossi forum. You'll be much more likely to find posters who've found themselves in a similar position.

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php

 

[walker944]

Thanks again, Krochus.

I just joined that forum a couple of days ago, and just now posted my question in the Single Shot Rifle suction (and here in THR Rifle Country). We'll see what comes of it. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[rcmodel]

subsquent call to Rossi/Taurus, I learned that the milsurp ammo primer (made for rifles with floating firing pins) is much too hard for the wimpy firing pin in the single shot Rossi.

That sounds like a cop-out to me.

Why in the world would an international arms manufacture chamber the rifle for 7.62x39 if it would only work with commercial ammo with soft primers?

Up until not too many years ago, there was no commercial 7.62x39 being made anywhere in the world!

I would take it to a gunsmith and find out what is really wrong with it.

Could be excess headspace, weak hammer spring, transfer bar not setting properly, or not enough firing pin protrusion.

At any rate, a single-shot hammer gun should knock any primer over the left field fence, if everything is working as it should.

rc

 

[walker944]

Rcmodel - I agree with you completely; the gun should have been designed to fire any ammo, including surplus. However, that is how Rossi designed the gun. And, by the way, so did NEF (HR), from what I've read on other boards. There is simply insufficient firing pin protusion to activate the primer. That is the simple fact. I've thought about having a gunsmith look at it, but am also going down the path of buying some commercial ammo then reloading it. But in the meantime the issue is what it is!