Reloading for Casull - Bullet Question

[kea208]

I am reloading for my Casull and picked up the Hornady .452 300 gr XTP #45230.

I looked into the 9th Ed. Hornady reload manual for the .452 300 gr XTP and found the load data for 1600 fps MV (31.4 gr of H110)

Then I look back into the book for something and see that the picture of the bullet has 1 canelure and the rounds I have been seating have 2.

In the book it lists the .452 300 gr XTP mag (I missed the word mag) as item #45235.

I looked up the #45230 I have been seating on the Hornady website and it says this XTP bullet can be loaded to a MV of 800 - 1700 fps.


So, can I safely and effectively use the #45230 in my Casull brass with the load listed at 1600 fps MV?

KA

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, you should be O.K..

The bullet you have is likely to expand more rapidly then the heavier jacketed Magnum bullet.

But there should be no other problems.

rc

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If pushed too hard the none magnum bullet could separate so be aware of that. The magnum bullet has a thicker jacket and harder core.

 

[TimSr]

I would advise against it. Velocity for that bullet is not the issue, but the pressure required to get a 300gr bullet to 1600 fps from a pistol which is probably above 50,000psi (The 1700fps Hornady lists is based on a 45LC pressures from a carbine.) Those bullets are for 45LC, and I would not load above 45LC PRESSURE levels for Ruger/Contender only loads. That's probably about 1200-1300 fps from a pistol.

The problem caused by overloading a low pressure bullet is not related to rapid expansion or terminal performance, but rather over obturation resulting in raising pressures and excessive wear on the forcing cone.

Hodgden's data for 300gr is based on the Freedom Arms bullet specially designed for 454 Casull with a thicker jacket and hard cast bonded core.

XTP-MAG are Hornady's answer to this problem.

This what Freedom Arms had to say about it.

Most commercially made pistol bullets available today are designed for expansion at velocities below 1400 F.P.S. Using bullets above this velocity results in poor accuracy, because the bullets can not withstand the higher pressures generated at these higher velocities. The deformation of the bullets base when fired results in poor accuracy. The higher velocities also cause bullet jacket separation and bullet weight loss, during uncontrolled expansion. When the pressure is high enough the jacket could separate from the bullet in the cylinder, or in flight.
ALSO ANOTHER IMPORTANT FACT IS, THE FASTER THE VELOCITY AND THE SOFTER THE BULLET, THE QUICKER THE FORCING CONE AREA IN THE BARREL WILL WEAR OUT.

 

[Edster12]

I have talked DIRECTLY to Hornady about the XTP bullet in the 454 Casull. DO NOT LOAD this bullet to the 454 Casull pressures !!! The XTP Mag is the bullet you want to use.

 

[kea208]

I guess this is my confusion

Hornady says I can load the 300 gr XTP to a maximum MV of 1700 fps

I have used the XTP load data for 1600 fps

Why is this load ok for 45LC brass but not Casull brass (and the same powder)?

I will not do something stupid, just trying to understand the rationale in case I run into this in some other load so that I understand why it is this way.

I am just glad I didn't crimp anything before I discovered the discrepancy

I am grateful for everyone's input and education.

 

[buck460XVR]

Why is this load ok for 45LC brass but not Casull brass (and the same powder)?

...it's not the brass. TimSr summed it it very well. Edster12 has talked directly to Hornady and they say no, don't do it. Still, your gun, your choice.

While I don't load for .454, I do load for it's big sister the .460. It is a whole different animal than many other handgun calibers. Folks that have never loaded for it, should not be giving advice. The biggest error most reloaders new to the .454 and .460 make is trying to get by with bullets designed for .45 Colt. This is because they generally are cheaper and more readily available. But they are a poor substitution unless one is downloading their .454/.460 ammo to .45 Colt levels.

 

[TimSr]

I guess this is my confusion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hornady says I can load the 300 gr XTP to a maximum MV of 1700 fps

I have used the XTP load data for 1600 fps

Why is this load ok for 45LC brass but not Casull brass (and the same powder)?

I will not do something stupid, just trying to understand the rationale in case I run into this in some other load so that I understand why it is this way.

The bullet in question will handle the velocity. It won't handle the pressure. Your "Ruger only" 45LC load that reaches 1300fps in a pistol might reach 1700fps when fired from a carbine, but chamber pressure, and pressure on the bullet will be the same.

I can't explain your load data, because I don't know what it's showing, but pay special attention to the pressure usually listed beside it in most data sources. Hot 45LC loads will top out around 30,000 while 454 Casull will be well above 50,000.

 

[kea208]

Pullen-bullets

Well I'm glad I didnt crimp

I picked up some 300 gr JHP XTP Mags on the way home and will pull the others to be safe and do it completely right.

I am shooting a 454 Raging Bull typically with Hornady 300 gr JHP at 1650 fps MV (factory load)

When the guy at Cabellas cold me the 300 gr JHP XTP that can fly between 800-1700 fps MPV I thought nothing of it since my other rounds were within that range (MV)and the mags (now that I have differentiated the two have a MV spread of 1200 - 2200.

Ive loaded for years but nothing pistol oriented for ages (used to hunt with .357 on the east coast) so I have been being careful and asking lots of questions.

Thanks again....KA

 

[41 Mag]

kea208,

Unfortunately what is posted above is dead on. I also spent quite a while on the phone with Hornady and Speer a few years ago when I started loading for this caliber. Same info as already posted.

You will also find that if you decide to use cast, your far better off starting with something that is in the 18 BHN range or so and if necessary work up from there. If your going to load the top end stuff you might want to add a gas check as well.