I've crushed a couple of primers in my loadmaster, but have never had one go off. I don't use federals in my loadmaster though. Lee states that federal primers are not recommended in certain priming tools not because of their softness, but because the basic compound in them explodes with much more violent force than other primers using standard compounds, but let's not let this thread give folks the assumption that federals excellent primers are dangerous! perhaps one should just use a bit more care when handling them and not deploy them in devices recommending against them.
Reloading mishap - all primers detonated (pics to follow)
- Thread starter malpais
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dmazur
Member
Maybe I'm missing something...
Does Lee include the Explosion Deflector with the press now? Or is it a $5 accessory for those who simply don't like primer chain reactions.
If I was Lee, I would offer the durn thing free to anyone who could offer minimal proof that they owned one of the troublesome presses.
Does Lee include the Explosion Deflector with the press now? Or is it a $5 accessory for those who simply don't like primer chain reactions.
If I was Lee, I would offer the durn thing free to anyone who could offer minimal proof that they owned one of the troublesome presses.
dmazur
Member
OK then.
<insert suitable Lee comment>
<insert suitable Lee comment>
floydster
Member
It's just amazing what some people can doI can fell the primers seating on my load master. If you are filling a pop as the primers seat then you need to swage the primer pockets. I swage all new to me brass. I find Speer pockets are still tight.
You need to go back to the basics & pay more attention. Learn each step until you have it perfected. Not that you won't make a mistake here & there but if you crush them often you need to make a change. I can't speak to how the Load Master does without a die in station 2 because I always size in that station.
With all things considered I would go buy a power ball ticket because that has to be a 1 in a million to get that result. The primer has to be at least 7" away from the ramp & those are some tiny holes that the fire had to go in.
You need to go back to the basics & pay more attention. Learn each step until you have it perfected. Not that you won't make a mistake here & there but if you crush them often you need to make a change. I can't speak to how the Load Master does without a die in station 2 because I always size in that station.
With all things considered I would go buy a power ball ticket because that has to be a 1 in a million to get that result. The primer has to be at least 7" away from the ramp & those are some tiny holes that the fire had to go in.
1SOW
Member
Scimmia:
This is correct. LEE has reduced the risks of detonation with the Safety Prime. On some of the presses mentioned, LEE recommends "limiting" the quantity of primers loaded into the system.
This post with no clear details about what press and priming system, is how internet 'facts' get started.
Operator errors with any press, including that Dillon primer tube, can cause bad things to happen. We're dealing with highly flammable gunpowder and volatile primers here.
Federal pistol primers are the only primers that do contain minute amounts of Nitro Glycerin to make them a little more sensitive to impact (check the Fed MSDS page). When ignited in large quantities, the detonation will definitely get your attention. The detonation is only very slightly "hotter" than other primers, but the sensitivity makes chain detonation easier to do.
I'm glad the OP was wearing safety gear and not injured.
The LEE Safety Prime is much 'saf-er', but anything to do with primers, especially in larger quantities requires careful reloader procedures and adherence to manufacturer recommendations and warnings. .
P.S. I load on a LEE Turret press and have loaded approx. 30,000 Fed SPPs. Hope this doesn't jinx me.
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GJgo
Member
Slamfire1 that was my thread where I set off an entire tube. It was entirely my fault for having a temporary dumb a__ moment, I've since continued to use Federals by the thousands with no further issues once I learned my lesson. (Don't EVER muscle a primer!)
medalguy
Member
This comment caught my attention:
From that 1000pcs CCI primer box I used up I had MANY that went in sideways
To the OP, if you're having MANY out of a box of 1,000 go in sideways, you are not paying close enough attention to what you're doing. Reloading can be dangerous if we get careless, and I would venture to say you're getting pretty darn close there. Start checking your brass prior to priming, and separate any that need swaging before you start priming. Be safe, and keep all your fingers and eyes.
From that 1000pcs CCI primer box I used up I had MANY that went in sideways
To the OP, if you're having MANY out of a box of 1,000 go in sideways, you are not paying close enough attention to what you're doing. Reloading can be dangerous if we get careless, and I would venture to say you're getting pretty darn close there. Start checking your brass prior to priming, and separate any that need swaging before you start priming. Be safe, and keep all your fingers and eyes.
gamestalker
member
Another reason why I remain content with my single stage press. I remember many years ago accidentally seating a couple up side down, and I really cranked on them.
That's some scarry stuff right there! I don't think to many of us actually realize just how explosive primers are. I remember back in the early 1980's or so, I threw a 209 in the bareque not realizing how deadly it could be. When that primer detonated, it shot a hole about the size a 22 cal. bullet would make right through the steel side!
That's some scarry stuff right there! I don't think to many of us actually realize just how explosive primers are. I remember back in the early 1980's or so, I threw a 209 in the bareque not realizing how deadly it could be. When that primer detonated, it shot a hole about the size a 22 cal. bullet would make right through the steel side!
JLDickmon
Member
My Lyman Auto-Prime is good for flipping small primers sideways..
LOOK at each primer as it sits in the ram before you seat it into the case.
LOOK at each primer as it sits in the ram before you seat it into the case.
Elkins45
Member
Apples and oranges. The Rockchucker isn't a progressive press with automatic indexing and a primer feeding system.
That grill must have been Rotted. Deadly primers are not as long as it is a open explosion. It could never get enough speed to make its weight penetrate. It could break the skin, bleed, & hurt.
Blue68f100
Member
Bummer, Glad your OK. Having primer seating sideways will cause problem on any press, SS or Progressive.
I have used Fed in my LNL without any problems. I no longer buy them because of storage/packing is so large. The one photo with the tube in the seiling tells me he did not have the sled tracking right, operator error.
A lot of reloaders with lighten springs in revolvers may trade with you if you can't return them.
I hope your ears quit ringing.
I have used Fed in my LNL without any problems. I no longer buy them because of storage/packing is so large. The one photo with the tube in the seiling tells me he did not have the sled tracking right, operator error.
A lot of reloaders with lighten springs in revolvers may trade with you if you can't return them.
I hope your ears quit ringing.
A reloader in Arizona had a primer tube, as he said ‘go Kaboom’ and he blamed static electricity and then started in on Dillon, I know his hand must have hurt and unlike most I do not find humor in most of what is seen on “Americas funniest Videos” we have become a nation of ‘compulsive laughers’, anyhow, I suggested a few experiments, I have been noted, in the past for getting someone's attention without doing harm with more than static electricity, in some circles it is referred to as being called ‘methods and techniques’.
As to his Kaboom,
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=495909
and ‘siders’ or a mob, as Clint Eastwood said about pigeons, “I know something about pigeons”, I know something about mobs, when a picture of a mob is reviewed it is a waste of time trying to find me, because? I was not there. There was a big seen in Washington DC, A MARINE informed me everyone was looking for me, and I said “I was not there” and he replied with “I know”. He started the conversation with “THANK YOU!”
The difference between owning a book and reading the book, again, R. Lee did not say he tested Federal primers, he said he did not test Federal primers because Federal did not give him primers to test, back to the mob, in my opinion Lee could be neither fair and or objective, he felt Federal did not take him serious and did not consider him ‘one of the good old boys’ ,
And I said Federal used the large primer trays that were too big for Lee’s flip trays to give Lee something to complain about, he could have said to Federal, “sorry Mr. Federal, I would have road tested your primers? but, I did not have any Federal primers to test, but, I said some nice things about other manufactures primers, other primer manufactures donated primers to be tested in my primer systems etc..”.
Back to “The Kaboom”, I can duplicate the kaboom, I can not duplicate the kaboom with static electricity, I can not get static electricity to go through the primers, I can not get electricity to flow through an anti magnetic watch, the static electricity will flow through the tube, straight through the tube, not on the inside of the tube but on the outside or the tube and through the tube but not on the inside, space between the primers does not constitute a gap, again and again, why would the electricity jump from one primer to another when the tube on the outside of the primers shield the primers like the steel ring installed in a anti magnetic watch.
Duplocate: In my opinion the tube involved in kaboom was folded, I can duplicate the kaboom by KI-rack chopping the tube while it is supported on both ends, the kaboom tube is folded, the primer tube sticking in the celling has two splits on one side, the tube is not bent, it appears to be straight, it appears to have launched it self with the propulsion provided by the primers. I said Dillon destroys primer system on a regular bases, that is part of their job, Dillon can duplicate the keboom,. they can load tubes with primers, support the tubes and then with something like a Ki-rack chop fold the tube, when the tube folds the primers in the fold will be crushed, when the primers are crushed the primers will be pinned in the tube causing primers above and below the fold to exit in a catastrophic manner, I know siders, mobs and a little bit about electricity.
I use Federal primers, I use primers that are available, I started out one day to bust off a primer, after two hours plus and attempting to create a kaboom I achieved success with an RCBS auto hand primer, it was no accident, I folded and mangled that primer to the point it was not recognizable.
If there is a stoppage and it (the primer will not go) don’t force it, and if an small animal runs out in front of you, do not swerve, suck air through your teeth, make that sucking sound, and if you drop a primer tube do not make the mistake of reaching for it, I suggest you make that sound, because reaching for the primer tube full of primers can fold the primer tube, crush primers and cause the primers at the fold to set the primers off.
Then there is the statement about the harm a primer can cause when ignited, a very good loader/shooter/collector had a very bad habit of carrying his ammo in zip lock bags, he dropped a bag one day, the rim of one case hit the primer of another case, the primer launched itself up and into the inside if his leg above the knee, he came close to bleeding to death. Back to R. Lee, for those that own the book but refuse to read it, Lee said he clocked primers through a chronograph at + 600 fps, and there are those that have never had a squib shot and do not know how the bullet got into the throat/forcing cone and could not determine why their cylinder would not rotate or could not understand why they had to eject a case from a slide gun and why the next round would not chamber, or they did not understand why their barrels suddenly and without warning developed a bulge.
F. Guffey
As to his Kaboom,
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=495909
and ‘siders’ or a mob, as Clint Eastwood said about pigeons, “I know something about pigeons”, I know something about mobs, when a picture of a mob is reviewed it is a waste of time trying to find me, because? I was not there. There was a big seen in Washington DC, A MARINE informed me everyone was looking for me, and I said “I was not there” and he replied with “I know”. He started the conversation with “THANK YOU!”
The difference between owning a book and reading the book, again, R. Lee did not say he tested Federal primers, he said he did not test Federal primers because Federal did not give him primers to test, back to the mob, in my opinion Lee could be neither fair and or objective, he felt Federal did not take him serious and did not consider him ‘one of the good old boys’ ,
And I said Federal used the large primer trays that were too big for Lee’s flip trays to give Lee something to complain about, he could have said to Federal, “sorry Mr. Federal, I would have road tested your primers? but, I did not have any Federal primers to test, but, I said some nice things about other manufactures primers, other primer manufactures donated primers to be tested in my primer systems etc..”.
Back to “The Kaboom”, I can duplicate the kaboom, I can not duplicate the kaboom with static electricity, I can not get static electricity to go through the primers, I can not get electricity to flow through an anti magnetic watch, the static electricity will flow through the tube, straight through the tube, not on the inside of the tube but on the outside or the tube and through the tube but not on the inside, space between the primers does not constitute a gap, again and again, why would the electricity jump from one primer to another when the tube on the outside of the primers shield the primers like the steel ring installed in a anti magnetic watch.
Duplocate: In my opinion the tube involved in kaboom was folded, I can duplicate the kaboom by KI-rack chopping the tube while it is supported on both ends, the kaboom tube is folded, the primer tube sticking in the celling has two splits on one side, the tube is not bent, it appears to be straight, it appears to have launched it self with the propulsion provided by the primers. I said Dillon destroys primer system on a regular bases, that is part of their job, Dillon can duplicate the keboom,. they can load tubes with primers, support the tubes and then with something like a Ki-rack chop fold the tube, when the tube folds the primers in the fold will be crushed, when the primers are crushed the primers will be pinned in the tube causing primers above and below the fold to exit in a catastrophic manner, I know siders, mobs and a little bit about electricity.
I use Federal primers, I use primers that are available, I started out one day to bust off a primer, after two hours plus and attempting to create a kaboom I achieved success with an RCBS auto hand primer, it was no accident, I folded and mangled that primer to the point it was not recognizable.
If there is a stoppage and it (the primer will not go) don’t force it, and if an small animal runs out in front of you, do not swerve, suck air through your teeth, make that sucking sound, and if you drop a primer tube do not make the mistake of reaching for it, I suggest you make that sound, because reaching for the primer tube full of primers can fold the primer tube, crush primers and cause the primers at the fold to set the primers off.
Then there is the statement about the harm a primer can cause when ignited, a very good loader/shooter/collector had a very bad habit of carrying his ammo in zip lock bags, he dropped a bag one day, the rim of one case hit the primer of another case, the primer launched itself up and into the inside if his leg above the knee, he came close to bleeding to death. Back to R. Lee, for those that own the book but refuse to read it, Lee said he clocked primers through a chronograph at + 600 fps, and there are those that have never had a squib shot and do not know how the bullet got into the throat/forcing cone and could not determine why their cylinder would not rotate or could not understand why they had to eject a case from a slide gun and why the next round would not chamber, or they did not understand why their barrels suddenly and without warning developed a bulge.
F. Guffey
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blarby
Member
First and foremost, I am SO GLAD you are OK !
We learn by the mistakes we make.
This one could have been worse.
Now, for some tough love......
While helpful... I think there is a cluster of errors that needs to be addressed first:
#1
#2
#3 ( this one is a two-parter )
If you are having problems seating primers on top of other primers that are already spent Something is horribly wrong. Either your de-priming operation isn't completing correctly, or you aren't observing your brass prep carefully, or different brands of cases in the same run are exhibiting different reactions to your press.... perhaps some combination of all of the above.
Having this occur IS AN ISSUE. The fact that a detonation did not occur previously is both a blessing and a curse.... a blessing that it didn't happen, and a curse in that it lulled you into complacency in a serious matter.
Its often said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.
You got a fairly loud wake-up call that something is seriously amiss in your reloading habits and knowledge.
Reloading is not in and of itself unsafe.... it is VERY unforgiving of errors. (in judgement, or application)
Honestly, I would restart at the beginning.
Read all of your instruction manuals. Pay particular attention to things like WARNING ! DANGER ! and DEATH OR SERIOUS INJURY !
Dis-assemble and Re-assemble all of your equipment. After a detonation, I would do it as a matter of course.
Re-evaluate your brass prep process ( I'd start by separating them by brand until you KNOW everything is 100%)
Proceed VERY SLOWLY manually indexing, , noting every sound, click, pop, and crackle through at least 1000 rounds for functionality.
I'm very glad that you were not injured in anything other than pride.
I hope that you continue reloading safely, and enjoy your hobby to the fullest.
@gamestalker : I couldn't agree more !
We learn by the mistakes we make.
This one could have been worse.
Now, for some tough love......
While helpful... I think there is a cluster of errors that needs to be addressed first:
#1
Lee specifically instructs you NOT to use more than one tray at a time.
#2
Correct. In the instructions, very near the primer warning count, this knowledge is inscribed.
#3 ( this one is a two-parter )
If you are having problems seating primers on top of other primers that are already spent Something is horribly wrong. Either your de-priming operation isn't completing correctly, or you aren't observing your brass prep carefully, or different brands of cases in the same run are exhibiting different reactions to your press.... perhaps some combination of all of the above.
Having this occur IS AN ISSUE. The fact that a detonation did not occur previously is both a blessing and a curse.... a blessing that it didn't happen, and a curse in that it lulled you into complacency in a serious matter.
Its often said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.
You got a fairly loud wake-up call that something is seriously amiss in your reloading habits and knowledge.
Reloading is not in and of itself unsafe.... it is VERY unforgiving of errors. (in judgement, or application)
Honestly, I would restart at the beginning.
Read all of your instruction manuals. Pay particular attention to things like WARNING ! DANGER ! and DEATH OR SERIOUS INJURY !
Dis-assemble and Re-assemble all of your equipment. After a detonation, I would do it as a matter of course.
Re-evaluate your brass prep process ( I'd start by separating them by brand until you KNOW everything is 100%)
Proceed VERY SLOWLY manually indexing, , noting every sound, click, pop, and crackle through at least 1000 rounds for functionality.
I'm very glad that you were not injured in anything other than pride.
I hope that you continue reloading safely, and enjoy your hobby to the fullest.
@gamestalker : I couldn't agree more !
Hondo 60
Member
That's like blaming the horse & cow for wondering off when the barn door is left open.
Federal primers have softer cups & a more easily set-off priming compound.
That's why Lee recommends CCI, Win & Rem primers (and not Federals).
Doesn't matter what press you have.
ranger335v
Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2006
- Messages
- 3,797
"...the salesman said "no, of course they won't".
Go back and ask him if ANY primer may go off if it's squished into a pocket sideways.
Federal's primers have a more sensitive priming compound than others, that means they are less prone to misfire; they are NOT 'softer' than others.
Go back and ask him if ANY primer may go off if it's squished into a pocket sideways.
Federal's primers have a more sensitive priming compound than others, that means they are less prone to misfire; they are NOT 'softer' than others.
Hagen442
Member
Primer Tube Blast
Been There Done That.
I had loaded a 100 and heavy handed a primer and BOOM.
On a Dillion 650 using Federals , back a couple of years ago.
Took Out 2-6 Foot Light Tubes above the Bench. Made a Big mess including
a Large Piece of Glass in my stomach. Blood and Glass everywhere.
Now the Tubes are protected ready to for it to go again.
Hagen
Been There Done That.
I had loaded a 100 and heavy handed a primer and BOOM.
On a Dillion 650 using Federals , back a couple of years ago.
Took Out 2-6 Foot Light Tubes above the Bench. Made a Big mess including
a Large Piece of Glass in my stomach. Blood and Glass everywhere.
Now the Tubes are protected ready to for it to go again.
Hagen
dmazur
Member
Well, actually it kind of seems like Lee is selling a barn without a door, and telling you to make sure you select horses and cows that don't have a tendency to wander off...
But if you want a door, that's extra.
The Dillon 550B has a fairly stout primer magazine, with an open top. I understand this is an attempt to minimize damage if the operator fails to follow instructions and somehow sets off a primer in the column. The primer seating area is well away from the column, to prevent chain detonations.
As I don't have a Lee press, I was just surmising that it seemed a little odd to omit a safety improvement, and try to cover the deficiency with written instructions.
Lee can run his company any way he wants. He is obviously making a success of it.
Doesn't mean I think he's right, however...
armoredman
Member
Used Fed 100 small pistol primers for quite a while, now use Remington, just because I can. Never had any issues, but I prime separately with an RCBS universal hand priming tool. before that it was one at a time with the priming arm...what a pain...
bbuddtec
Member
I guess Dillon should have a door too... but no contingency as such hehe, ohh the anti's
Apparently this is one for the RTFM files.
Luckily you protected yourself from yourself
Apparently this is one for the RTFM files.
Luckily you protected yourself from yourself
Re: Picture of Hornady LNL primer tube shot into ceiling.
I thought with the Hornady system where the primer is shuttled forward away from the tube before seating made it less prone to having the whole tube of primers ignite?
I am not very familiar with other priming systems though.
Is it a case where a primer gets crushed before it is shuttled forward and ignites the row of primers?
I thought with the Hornady system where the primer is shuttled forward away from the tube before seating made it less prone to having the whole tube of primers ignite?
I am not very familiar with other priming systems though.
Is it a case where a primer gets crushed before it is shuttled forward and ignites the row of primers?
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