Rem 1100 and Browning A5

[dak0ta]

Hi,

These are the top 2 most successful semi-auto designs ever. One's gas operated, other long recoil.

Is there any advantage of one over the other? 1100 uses O-rings that wear out, but are easily replaced. A5 has no O-rings, but friction rings that are more robust.

What about the rate of fire for sporting clays or skeet? Or pointability? Recoil dampening of the gas system, etc.?

A5's can go on without cleaning, but 1100s can't?

Edit I stand corrected: ''The model 1100 holds the record for the most shells fired out of an autoloading shotgun without malfunction, cleaning or parts breakage with a record of over 24,000 rounds. The record was set in 1978 with a Remington model 1100 LT-20. Breaking this record has been attempted with several other models of Semi auto shotguns but has yet to be broken''

 

[jbr]

My daughter inherited a Reminigton model 11 from her great grandfather. Still works like a champ. It's the browning a5 design that John Browning licensed to Remington before Browning built them (1905-1948). The first American made semi-auto shotgun. I think that speaks to the Browning design pretty well. I own a Maxus also. Absolute pleasure to shoot.
My first shotgun that i got when i was 12 was a Remington 1100 20 ga. Still have it. Still flawless 35 years later. Absolute blast to shoot clays with or dove hunt. A really well made shotgun. That doesn't really help you at all does it?

 

[rcmodel]

Not a simple question to answer.

The Browning A5 was the first successful semi-auto shotgun, designed over 100 years ago.
Due to Brownings patents covering almost everything that could be used in another design, nobody could even try to best it, so they didn't.
And they probably couldn't have anyway.

Too this day, there is no more 100% reliable semi-auto shotgun made then the Browning A5.

More of them were sold over the years under different names then any other design ever made.

The Rem gas-guns came out nearly 50 years later, and the design had more to do with cheaper production methods developed during WWII then perhaps making a better shotgun.

No doubt the gas guns kick less then the long recoil A5.

But the A5 kicks less then the locked breech pumps like the Model 12 Winchester and Model 31 Remington/Ithaca 37 that were the only competition for half a century.

Rate of fire or cycling speed is a non-issue with any shotgun.
Unless you are an exibition shooter like Tom Knapp or Patrick Flanigan, who practices thousands of rounds a month with free ammo, free guns, & factory gunsmith support?

Recoil kicks you off target every shot, and any of them will cycle faster then you can get back on the same or another target anyway.

rc

 

[Virginian]

I believe there have been more 1100s made than all the long recoil designs combined. And while JMB was a certified firearms design genius, he did like a lot of little fitted moving parts, so coming out with something simpler and easier to build was a goal, but do sell the guys who came up with the 1100 short either. The advancements in shotshells had a lot to do with Remington being able to make a gas semi that worked, but the competition still had a lot of trouble trying to make anything to compete for a long time. Heaven knows they tried. The 1100 burst on the scene like nothing before or since in the fields and on the courses, or ever likely to again.
The two designs look and feel quite different, swinging, firing, and cycling. They both work. I would rate the reliability about equal. An Auto 5 is reliable, with the right shells, the recoil mechanism set right, not gunky dirty, and with a firm shoulder firing it. The 1100 is reliable as long as you don't let it get gunky dirty and use the right shells for the model. Pick the one you like best and you will likely be happy for a long time.

 

[Old Unc']

3.5 million A5's produced and over 6 million 1100's produced. Both are pure American classics...

 

[snooperman]

Many years ago, at about 30 years old,I had to have an Auto 5 Browning. Within a year I traded that Belgium gun for a Remington 1100 and never looked back. A few months later I bought the wonderful Remington Wingmaster 870 and still have both. Some people like the Auto 5 and some do not. My older brother still has his and loves it. Try them both as they are very different guns and make your choice. Have fun in your search and good luck.

 

[PJR]

''The model 1100 holds the record for the most shells fired out of an autoloading shotgun without malfunction, cleaning or parts breakage with a record of over 24,000 rounds. The record was set in 1978 with a Remington model 1100 LT-20. Breaking this record has been attempted with several other models of Semi auto shotguns but has yet to be broken''

I've read this a few times but does anyone have more details on this event?

Even if this did occur it would be a mistake to buy a gun based on what an earlier version of the same gun did almost 35 years ago. I base my decisions on what the guns are doing today and with the ever declining quality of Remington guns, my own experience with them and with other guns I'd pass on an 1100 and seek something else.

It's the same with the Auto 5. In its day it was a ground-breaking development but that was over a century ago and there are better guns on the market.

If I had to choose between the two it would be the Remington 1100 but only because I've owned them and am familiar with replacing parts in them which is an all too frequent occurrence particularly among the newer models.

 

[Gordon]

Actually the Remington model 58 was their first gas gun and worked fairly well and was reasonable durable. When Remington went on to the 1100 High Standard picked up kinda the earlier design and sold quite a few to Sears.Winchester went with their floating short recoil Model 50 and 59 and they work OK too. Neither are as durable as the A-5 or 1100 IMHO.
NO comparison with the recoil reduction between the 1100 and the A5 , although properly set up AND the amount/kind of lube on the Mag tube really can reduce the recoil. I have a 20 gauge A5 that when the tube is run pretty dry really reduces the kick. I have experimented with certain heavy greases that do the same thing The 1100 has the advantage of drop out for cleaning fire control and a much less complicated design but the A5 wins hands down on their speed feed lifter and mag cut off! The square back design works pretty well for a sight picture but I think the 1100 is overall superior in that dept. , yeah I know you point a SG !

 

[throdgrain]

I only ever shot an A5 one time, but it didnt cycle properly. I was under the impression it was a bit of a relic

Looks funny and its mad heavy too

 

[rcmodel]

Friction rings set wrong for the loads you were trying to shoot.

The A5 Light-12 weighs no more then most other semi-auto shotguns, or a little over 7 pounds.

rc

 

[451 Detonics]

Rate of fire or cycling speed is a non-issue with any shotgun.
Unless you are an exibition shooter like Tom Knapp or Patrick Flanigan, who practices thousands of rounds a month with free ammo, free guns, & factory gunsmith support?

I am not Tom Knapp or even Herb Parsons but when shooting pins or pepper poppers cyclic rate does affect me. For pure speed I shoot a Benelli 121M which has the fastest cyclic rate of any 12 gauge out there, My times on pins or pepper poppers reflect this, I am faster with the 121 than I am with my 1100 even tho the 121 has more felt recoil.

The biggest advantage the 1100 has over the A-5 is in shooting light loads, my 1100 will cycle my 7/8s oz loads very reliably but they will not cycle an A5.

 

[Old Unc']

long live the 1100...

 

[Virginian]

I am of the opinion that the "declining quality at Remington" is based strictly on the cheap Expresses and some less expensive 11-87s of late. The Sporting models I have seen are just fine. I recently saw some new 1100s with a satin finish on the wood and steel - and this was real satin not Express gravel - and they looked quite nice for $600ish new semi autos.
Of course some people just hate Cerebus and nothing will counter that. C'est la Vie.

 

[Swing]

3.5 million A5's produced and over 6 million 1100's produced. Both are pure American classics...

Exactly. Very hard to say either is the "wrong" choice. I'd go with the A5, but wouldn't bat an eye at choosing the 1100. To each their own.

 

[PJR]

I am of the opinion that the "declining quality at Remington" is based strictly on the cheap Expresses and some less expensive 11-87s of late. The Sporting models I have seen are just fine.

No doubt they are very pretty guns but beauty is only skin deep. I've owned Remington 870s and 1100s dating from the mid 70's to 2005. I've seen the evidence first hand of the downward spiral.

Moreover I can name half a dozen shooters at our club who have owned recently-made 1100 Sporting models and had problems. Not to mention the two owners of 105 CTIs whose guns had to go back for repair and replacement, one of them more than once.

 

[wgp]

I don't have an 1100, but do have 3 A5s. I don't recall a single time any of the A5s have ever failed to fire, feed or eject. I do recall times with others in the field when their 1100s failed from gas system issues. I have had the same flawless record with my Benelli M1, all of which leads me to prefer recoil systems over gas guns.

My attraction with the A5 began when I would hunt with guys who I knew could afford anything, but they were shooting old A5s with the bluing worn off. I have also found that the A5 seems to fit me well and I shoot them better than other shotguns. I am not fond of the weight of the 12ga, I must admit.

 

[tryshoot]

Worked on an a-5 magnum. Did not like swapping rings,but instructions were in forarm. Friend had a Savage 16 gauge he would not take anything for.(a-5 design). I prefer other shotguns.

 

[Virginian]

The biggest issue with any semi auto shotgun is usually the nut on the back of the stock. I have been shooting Remingtons since the early sixties, I sold and worked on guns for over 20 years, and I haven't seen anything wrong with the new Sportings. Every one I have seen with issues at the range looked just like the Berettas and Browning Golds with issues when you looked close. Lubricated with some new stuff that looks like black tar. If I can find out what it's called I will not buy any.