Our new-to-us 11-87 20 ga Premier came with Full, Mod and Skeet tubes. I'm wondering if anyone has any comments on pattern density and range differences between the Skeet and IC tubes? Seems like the Skeet tube ought to be interchangeable (more or less) with IC, but to confuse matters more I noticed that Remington also sells a "Skeet 2" tube. (yikes) Thoughts/suggestions???
Rem Choke Skeet vs IC?
- Thread starter JNewell
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I hope this doesn't look wrong when I type it, but what a "barrel or choke" is marked ain't always what it throws.
Patterns are more bore than choke, and pattern boards better identify what "constriction" one has than the markings.
Etched in granite somewhere ,someone chisled that a 20 bore was .615" one upon a time. The only absolute I can safely state about Shotguns, Chokes, and loads "There ain't no absolutes".
Granted from station to center stake is 21 yds in skeet, that does not mean that is the ONLY effective range of a skeet choke. Use extra hard shot, tweak with the loadings and the range extends. OTOH in the old days of fixed chokes only I can make a full choke throw a more effective, bigger and denser pattern with a full choke., than a skeet/IC choke bbl..that's what we did before screw in chokes. Give me soft shot and my recipe..anyone can make your skeet load look way to tight.
I always advise one to pattern at the range with the ammo needed for application and adjust accordingly. I tend to pattern a wee bit more distance for a cushion. Different brands differ, different recipes differ, same guns and chokes differ. Different lot #'s of shells/ powders differ.
IIRC Dave jut pattened a choke and found it Non- concentric, another member sent him one that was and patterns improved, I belive these two chokes were marked the same tho'.
Patterns are more bore than choke, and pattern boards better identify what "constriction" one has than the markings.
Etched in granite somewhere ,someone chisled that a 20 bore was .615" one upon a time. The only absolute I can safely state about Shotguns, Chokes, and loads "There ain't no absolutes".
Granted from station to center stake is 21 yds in skeet, that does not mean that is the ONLY effective range of a skeet choke. Use extra hard shot, tweak with the loadings and the range extends. OTOH in the old days of fixed chokes only I can make a full choke throw a more effective, bigger and denser pattern with a full choke., than a skeet/IC choke bbl..that's what we did before screw in chokes. Give me soft shot and my recipe..anyone can make your skeet load look way to tight.
I always advise one to pattern at the range with the ammo needed for application and adjust accordingly. I tend to pattern a wee bit more distance for a cushion. Different brands differ, different recipes differ, same guns and chokes differ. Different lot #'s of shells/ powders differ.
IIRC Dave jut pattened a choke and found it Non- concentric, another member sent him one that was and patterns improved, I belive these two chokes were marked the same tho'.
' 73 is preachin' the gospel truth here ^^^^^. You have to shoot the chokes on a pattern board to know for sure what is going to happen. I have a Mod and an IC here from big green that are the exact same in all dimensions, only difference is the writing on them......
Skeet tubes in a RemChoke should have about .005" of constriction, an IC will have about .010" and a Skeet 2 will have about .015", Mod will have about .020" and a full will have about .040".
The patterns between a Skeet and an IC are very close at skeet ranges, with my main observation being that the Skeet is going to have a little less center density than the IC. Range on clay birds is essentially the same.
RemChokes are the absolute worst chokes I have ever played with for quality and consistency. If you need/want more chokes the aftermarket is flush with good ones and prices are great also.
H, thanks.
Here is some more excellent advise on chokes , yeah H knows his stuff.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48478
FWIW, and newbies, at one time the general accepted rule on bbl length and their fixed chokes :
26"=IC
28"=Mod
30"= Full
Things may actually have been simpler back then, We just patterned guns and tailored loads.
BTW, I felled many ducks back in the day with my " low brass" 20 ga shells shells "marked " 7/8 oz # 8 shot . Ahem, Actually I was using 1 1/18 oz of hard # 5 shot...amazed and awed the others in the blind...Using my Citori Skeet gun., with fixed chokes..
Greeheads over dekes...plop!
Here is some more excellent advise on chokes , yeah H knows his stuff.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48478
FWIW, and newbies, at one time the general accepted rule on bbl length and their fixed chokes :
26"=IC
28"=Mod
30"= Full
Things may actually have been simpler back then, We just patterned guns and tailored loads.
BTW, I felled many ducks back in the day with my " low brass" 20 ga shells shells "marked " 7/8 oz # 8 shot . Ahem, Actually I was using 1 1/18 oz of hard # 5 shot...amazed and awed the others in the blind...Using my Citori Skeet gun., with fixed chokes..
Greeheads over dekes...plop!
The guys nailed it, let me put the cherry on top...
I've seen little practical difference between Skeet and IC. Skeet has a few more pellets towards the fringe, a few less in the center. Cylinder is effective out to 25 yards or more depending on load and target.
Note....
Some aftermarket tubes marked Skeet are actually negative chokes, larger than bore diameter. IIRC, Remington's Skeet tube actually runs about 5 POC. Briley's most open choke for the Remington system runs -5 POC. Big difference.
Skeet II is usually taken to mean one small increment tighter than IC, or Light Modified. Again, it varies.
Best to actually pick a load for a given mission and pattern it. Then, you've real world info instead of educated guesses and/or wishful thinking on the maker's part.
HTH...
I've seen little practical difference between Skeet and IC. Skeet has a few more pellets towards the fringe, a few less in the center. Cylinder is effective out to 25 yards or more depending on load and target.
Note....
Some aftermarket tubes marked Skeet are actually negative chokes, larger than bore diameter. IIRC, Remington's Skeet tube actually runs about 5 POC. Briley's most open choke for the Remington system runs -5 POC. Big difference.
Skeet II is usually taken to mean one small increment tighter than IC, or Light Modified. Again, it varies.
Best to actually pick a load for a given mission and pattern it. Then, you've real world info instead of educated guesses and/or wishful thinking on the maker's part.
HTH...
Thanks guys! I did find a table finally on Remington's site with specs for the tubes: http://www.remington.com/accessories/chokspec.htm
Looks like there is a potentially significant difference between the skeet and IC tubes, so I'll probably spend the $15 for the tube.
But of course, you're right about the proof of the pudding being in the eating, or in this case, the patterning!
Looks like there is a potentially significant difference between the skeet and IC tubes, so I'll probably spend the $15 for the tube.
But of course, you're right about the proof of the pudding being in the eating, or in this case, the patterning!
That is a very interesting chart because according to it the difference between the -1 thou constriction of the skeet choke and the IC is 17 thou. That is a meaningful difference.
However, the 20 gauge sporting clay chokes show a 5 thou difference.
Adding further to the mystery is the great latitude shown in their nominal constrictions. With a plus or minus 2 thou difference it could mean in some circumstances that what appeared to be a more open choke would in fact be tighter than the next tightest constriction.
That is of course if everything is according to specs and the more I've seen of recent Remington QC that should NOT be taken for granted.
Nevertheless, in this case I'd support getting the IC choke.
Paul
However, the 20 gauge sporting clay chokes show a 5 thou difference.
Adding further to the mystery is the great latitude shown in their nominal constrictions. With a plus or minus 2 thou difference it could mean in some circumstances that what appeared to be a more open choke would in fact be tighter than the next tightest constriction.
That is of course if everything is according to specs and the more I've seen of recent Remington QC that should NOT be taken for granted.
Nevertheless, in this case I'd support getting the IC choke.
Paul
I think I have gone through every available 20 gauge Rem Choke. I have the Skeet, I.C., and Improved Skeet tubes. The I.C. and Improved Skeet tubes, by the way, actually measure identical in all dimensions. The negative constriction in the Skeet tube did not pattern well for me at all. I even made up a jig to hold a tube then reamed out and honed a spare full choke tube to 0.006 constriction for skeet use. I finally bought Briley Extended tubes from Brownells, and I am truly happy. The Briley tubes throw really excellent patterns in my 1100's. I got a Skeet, an Improved Cylinder, and an Improved Modified tube, and I have the waterfront covered for my particular needs. The Briley tubes are beautifully machined. I get an FFL discount from Brownells, but even at full price these tubes are only $35. They are worth the money.
Clemson
Clemson
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