Rem Rolling Block -- Trying to Determine Caliber -- Thinking 40-65 Win

[UKWildcats]

Inherited an Rem Rolling Block from my Father-in-Law
-- He picked up 10 to 15 years ago as a project
-- While cleaning up their basement found the parts for the Rolling Block and decided to put it together and finish

What I am trying to determine is the caliber
-- gun is at gunsmith being finished
-- GunSmith checked the barrel and came up with the following (poured metal into the chamber)

Case Length -- 2.144" with rim
Case Lenth w/o Rim -- 2.079"
Bullet Diameter -- .410"
Case Mouth Diameter -- .435"
Case Diameter just above the Rim -- .507"
Rim is identical to 45-75

So I believe is is a 40-65 Win but
-- Not sure if there is another caliber close to the 40-65 that it could be
-- SAAMI did not "Chamber Drawing" on website so I can not confirm

So trying to get confirmation on my belief before I try to purchase
-- Cases
-- Reloading Dies
-- Bullets

Any help would be appreciated


UK

 

[tark]

When the smith is finished, pics are mandatory. Is it a rifle, or a carbine? It certainly sounds like it could be a 40-65. You should hope it is, because 45-70 cases are easily re-formed to 40-65. Is there a bottleneck shape in the chamber? If there is, it isn't a 40-65. That round has a gentle taper the length of the case. There is no "bottleneck" shape to the case. Reloading dies are a bit pricy, cases and bullets not so much. You will want to cast your own, for best results. Keep us posted.

 

[UKWildcats]

I will post picture when complete -- when I checked last week they were getting close to blueing (picked up shotgun they did the simple work on -- and I dropped off front/rear sight)

The case is straight walled -- no bottleneck to the case -- hopefully the simple picture the Gun Smith drew is attached.

Definitely a rifle -- I think the barrel was 34" long

 

[UKWildcats]

Got the rifle back from Gun Smith. Forgot it was one (1) heavy stick -- last time I touched it is was in multiple pieces.

Now I need to find some 40--65 brass -- or 45-70 brass to size

Pictures as promised -- sorry one (1) is blurry but I had already put it back on wall.

UK

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Possibly .40-65 Winchester, which would be good if true -- it's a simple forming job from .45-70.

Donnelly's Cartridge Conversion book gives the dimensions for this as follows:

Bullet: .406
Rim: .605x.06
Case length: 2.10
Neck diameter .423
Head diameter: .504

 

[eastbank]

if you need a few 40-65 cases i have some and some cast bullets. i can,t help you on dies.

 

[UKWildcats]

BTW -- those is how I found it -- father-in-law passed away in 2015 but just found in this condition, really wish I had looked/found it sooner.
-- minimize surface rust
-- before ammo shortage of 2020/2021

Wood did not fit well, or at all
Surface rust on barrel
No sights


UK

 

[25-20 WCF]

From the photos the gunsmith did well. You don’t need to cast your own bullets, several CB companies can supply the correct bullets (or at least they could in more normal times). A fine shooter if the bore is decent.




.

 

[UKWildcats]

I got bullets from ACME http://www.acmebullet.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=121
-- they had then in stock
-- delivered in about a week
-- nice wooden box (storage)
-- hope they work better than the stuff they sent
Wile E. Coyote (for us Warner Bros cartoon fans)

Dies I picked up a week earlier - RCBS

Fortunately I have plenty of primers and powder (4895/Varget/A2230 -- not probably optimal but will make do to get started)

UK

 

[tark]

UK Wildcats? I assume you are a University of Kentucky Alum ? Lol. Damn fine school. Shoot me a PM, I have a box of Federal 45-70 unprimed brass that I'll Give ya' for free. Call it an early Christmas present. It was given to me and I have all the 45-70 brass I can use, anyway.

 

[UKWildcats]

Yes -- Graduated from the engineering school in 1986 -- long time ago and now retired and generally shoot at least twice a week.

Thank you for the offer -- will send you a message

UK

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

UK Wildcats? I assume you are a University of Kentucky Alum ?

Funny, my assumption from this moniker identified a custom cartridge designer from the United Kingdom.

I had something similar happen once while I was stopped at a red light. The vanity license plate on the car in front of me was UNODOS. I said to my wife that we must be following an aged computer nerd that was DOS fan -- "You Know DOS". She pointed out that uno dos was one-two in Spanish; their little Mexican flag decal favored her explanation over mine.

 

[gotboostvr]

Funny, my assumption from this moniker identified a custom cartridge designer from the United Kingdom.

I had something similar happen once while I was stopped at a red light. The vanity license plate on the car in front of me was UNODOS. I said to my wife that we must be following an aged computer nerd that was DOS fan -- "You Know DOS". She pointed out that uno dos was one-two in Spanish; their little Mexican flag decal favored her explanation over mine.

I always enjoyed trying to figure out what the vanity plates mean. It was kind of a family competition growing up. Who could spot it and figure it out first.

 

[Jim Watson]

A little history:
.40-65 Winchester came out in the 1886 lever action as an express round, a 260 gr bullet at high for black velocity.

In the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle revival, the .40-65 was seized on as a substitute for .40-70 Sharps because it is readily formed from common .45-70 brass. Rifling twist is faster for the heavier bullets used by Sharps. My Browning 1885 BPCR has a nominal .408" Badger barrel, but is more accurate with .411" bullets which I assume fits the chamber throat better. My actual load is .40-56-404. A friend crams in 63 grains of powder but pays for it in recoil.

Those Acme bullets at 250 gr .406" are apparently meant for the period 1886. Whether they will shoot well in your modernized Remington depends on the barrel specifications.

I would slug and patch the barrel to learn the groove diameter and twist rate before I sank any more money into bullets.

 

[tark]

Your brass is on the way UK Wildcats. I sent it USPS since unprimed brass is OK to ship with them. Tracking # is 9114 9022 0078 9185 4870 41. enjoy!

 

[UKWildcats]

Jim --

The gunsmith slugged the barrel (above scanned picture) -- he showed bullet diameter of .410 so the Acme bullets I have might be a little narrow

I just checked the barrell -- twist is 1 in 20" -- pretty sure I got is correct, the rod was giving a little issues till I put a different brush onto the cleaning rod.

If the bullets are too small -- no big issue -- just have to find something closer to what you shoot


UK

 

[Jim Watson]

I think my Browning has a 16" twist and is said to handle bullets up into the 440-450 gr range.
I don't know what the 20" twist will handle, certainly more than 250 gr for which Winchester had a very slow twist.