Reminded myself why I procrastinate 223 today

[Paddy]

So yesterday I put together a bunch of batches of 5.56 brass and started prepping them up. It's an involved process as you know. Not too much more than other stuff, but since I don't do much small primer stuff it means all my little primer cleaner things and doodads needed to be swapped out. So, spent almost the whole day (home sick) processing it all up and had a big pile of sized, trimmed, chamfered, deburred, de-milled, and cleaned brass.

So I opened up the jug of 55gr bullets that has been making me feel guilty for a year (it has about 5000 in it) and loaded up 100 on my single stage press. Thinking this was cute I decided that maybe I should try to load these progressive on the LNL. Okay so I always leave the LNL setup for 45acp because frankly it's too difficult to change over once I get everything set the way I like it, but I figured it was good practice and I have a few projects waiting to get loaded that I can do before switching back.

WELL this is when the problems start. It had been long enough I forgot ALL the things I need to change to do this!

Primer shuttle changed to small
Find small primer feed tube
Primer punch changed small
Bullet feeder removed (easy)
Shell plate swap (wrenches?)
Powder drop case mouth flare thing removed, replaced with small funnel drop
Powder linkage removed
Powder measure large cylinder (tools)

Okay so Started loading in shells and using the powder drop manually because I didn't want to totally readjust the linkage (but not before spilling powder everywhere because forgot the pistol metering insert in the large cylinder) and manually placing bullets in mouth at top of stroke so whole process was only priming, powder drop, and seating. Well, this awkward procedure was marginally successful and spilling only moderate amounts of powder but placing those tiny bullets on the mouth is tricky and a few got sideways on me. Then had some priming issues (see previous comment about spilled powder) and damn it but the second time removing the shuttle (unesessary) the return spring disappeared. I mean, it's gone. It didn't shoot somewhere, and the room is like 6'x8' but it's just gone.

So, I give up. 223 loading, for me, isn't very rewarding! The one good thing was the 4320 powder was at least wanting to go into the tiny case mouths, and less annoying to clean up than ball powder.

Maybe I need a turret press? Or another LnL!

 

[PCCUSNRET]

Tried reloading 223 on my Dillon 550 and never could get powder to drop the same amount twice so went back to using a RCBS JR and 2 Rockchuckers. I also use one of the RCBS Uniflow powder measures. For as much .223 I shoot it just wasn't worth the agravation.

 

[BigBore45]

I can switch my Lee loadmaster over in 5 min. No tools. Everything stays in adjustment after reinstallation. I have a buddy with an lnl. I don't like it at all. YMMV.

 

[Paddy]

I love the LNL but changeover isn't its strength. If I invested in a powder measure and linkage for each caliber it would help a lot, but that's ~100$ each. I guess that's why they invented the Dillon square deals.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

Just buy an extra powder measure with case activated die/linkage. Leave the large rotor in it. The rest of the changeover is easy unless the primer shuttle spring gives you fits. Some people tie a string onto one of the end-loops to make the spring easier to clip onto the shuttle. The extra powder measure and linkage will run about $100 but it's well worth it in my opinion.

As far as tools go, you really only need 3 hex keys, one for the shellplate, one for the screws in the powder measure linkage, and one for the die lock rings. And you only need 2 wrenches. One for the primer punch and one for removing dies by turning the lock rings. I just bought one of the Hornady LNL wrenches, back when I bought my press years ago. The LNL wrench's closed end fits around Hornady lock rings, the open end fits on the flats of their dies, and it has a tab that fits into the shellplates to keep them still during installation. The LNL wrench, the wrench for the primer punch, and those hex keys are all I need unless I have a major press issue, and I keep them right by my press. I refuse to take one of them away from the press to work on other stuff. I take my time and I can switch everything over in 5 minutes or less by having a second powder measure.

 

[mstreddy]

I do finish load 223 on my LNL. At least after the case prep is done. In my case, no pun intended, I mostly load small primer stuff pistol stuff on the LNL. But one thing I found that helps is that I have several of the powder dies (the part that goes on the press that the case activated linkage connects to) and since I have 2 LNLs I have 2 powder measures, and I have an older RCBS Uniflow with it's own case activated linkage. So, I have one of those powder measures dedicated to rifle.

 

[Blue68f100]

All you need is the powder dispenser die for each caliber. Then all you switch over is the upper, which is 1 thumb screw and R&R the return spring. Once you have one adj you DO NOT adj the Stop at all any more. If you do you change all of your caliber sets. When you setup the next caliber you only adj the die leaving the stop set. So when you change setups every thing is preset. All you need to do is change the powder charge. I've been using the sting on the spring ever since I got my LNL-AP 8yrs ago. Just run the ram up, pull the sting back and remove the sled and install the other size, use the sting to put it back in place. Takes all of 5-10 sec to do. A complete caliber change takes me only a couple minutes. I have the micrometer head on my powder dispenser so all I do is look at my notes as to where to set it, check, fine adj if needed. If you do have to change rotors having 2 dispensers will speed up the change over time.

 

[Paddy]

OH the string idea is a good one I'll do that, if I can ever find it...

So, wait, the powder drop die thing which holds the funnels, OR the case mouth expander thing for my 45acp, is all I'd need and then I could change over the measure part without adjustment? I was under the impression that the threads on the bottom of the measure, which are clamped by the linkage castings, would need adjustment to accommodate the different length of the internal funnel type things. Or are they calibrated all to the same length as the expander drop thing? I know my funnels are shorter considerably, but I can stack two together which looks to be close to the same height. My only concern then is usually that the funnel pushes on the mouth so hard to activate the measure that in the case of 223 it could distort the mouth or even worse the shoulder, or both.

Ps, I also do have a second measure, but it's reserved for the non progressive loading I do mainly rifle stuff. It's a Hornady with a hand lever. Is there any way I could use that or should I just bite 100 bullets and get a whole new measure with case activator? Actually looking at prices it would be about 130$ for a measure and case activation dropper kit

 

[joem1945]

Get a Dillon 650 for big batches. Change over takes lest than 5 mins if you have extra tool heads. powder measure and case feeder.

 

[kennedy]

I load 223 on my lee turret with double auto disk powder measurer with no problems, easy switch over, just install the turret, shell holder and auto disk.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

Me, I'd get another powder measure, die, and linkage. For me it's worth it. You're right about it being about $130 rather than $100. I was just throwing out ball-park figures before. If you can find a used RCBS Uniflow or Hornady measure, you can probably save yourself a few bucks. The linkage supposedly works with either of them but I only have Hornady measures. Brand new the Hornady tends to run about $10 cheaper unless you find a Uniflow on sale, like they are now at MidwayUSA, but it's only $1 cheaper than the Hornady.

 

[bluetopper]

I just have one of everything on my LNL. I've changed over so many times it's not that big of a deal to me. I guess I'm an old pro at it. It takes just a few minutes.
I load all my 223 and 7mm-08 progressively, as well as multiple pistol calibers.

 

[Paddy]

Yeah well I think another powder measure would ease things too so I ordered one of these Frankford measures to replace my bench one and I'll set that one up for rifle on the progressive press.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/573642/frankford-arsenal-platinum-series-powder-measure

Anyone have one of these? They seem pretty nice for 62$

 

[mstreddy]

Paddy,

Here is the Powder Die at Midway. What you do is have one of those for rifle and you change it over.
Since you have the other measure, you would need the case activated linkage for it.

 

[Nature Boy]

Paddy, I'm doing the same thing this weekend as well. Making my first caliber conversion on my Dillon 650 from .308 to .223. It's a lot of stuff and I have dedicated tool heads for both. I'm sure once I have done it a few times il get quicker, but I doubt I'll ever get to the 5 min change over folks talk about.

I'm still trimming brass, with a lot of swaging in my near future. My goal is to get to the range today. I better get busy......

 

[Paddy]

Good luck nature boy. No shame in factory ammo either! Consider it brass production.

Mstreddy, I'm with you on the die part but I'm still unclear I guess because if I just have that part, which would contain my funnels for rifle, won't i still have to adjust the powder measure on the upper thread part if I wanted to use the linkage? Also, I'd still have to swap over the linkage to the larger metering cylinder, because I'm using small one on pistol, but it only goes up to 15 gr or so I think. Maybe the lower thread part can achieve all the adjusting I'd need to compensate for the position on the upper measure side? Well, in any case I'm getting a new measure and new linkage too so I won't have to swap cylinders anymore and I can keep my 45acp measure dedicated which is what needs to happen anyway.
Let's see, my money savings by reloading break even point just moved a bit further now, sometime in the late 2030's most likely. Then it will have all made sense

 

[mstreddy]

Paddy,

Let's assume you have 2 powder measures set up for case activation on the LNL. One with Rifle Rotor and one for pistol. Is that what you have?
OK, then with the lower assembly - the powder die. You can have one of each (1 rifle/1pistol) as well. You adjust the powder die for the different calibers within the range (rifle or pistol). The powder die is what you screw in/out (up/down) to get the right throw length on your powder measure cylinder.
If you have the 2 measures and only one case activated linkage you would need to move the case activation linkage from small (pistol) to large (rifle) rotors. That would not be a "quick" change, but it's doable and it does work.
Even then, you have to adjust the powder die for the correct throw.
Does this make sense?
And yes, the funnel piece goes inside the powder die and you have to change that from pistol to small rifle. There should be 3 of them with the Hornady PM.

Since I load various calibers/cartridges on my LNL I ended up making custom funnels based on cfullgraf's design/idea to keep my pistol measure and die set.

And yeah, we sure do spend money on our hobby to save money!

 

[Paddy]

Ah okay. No my second measure is just a plain bench one without all the progressive specific parts. Which is why I ordered a new bench measure and so I will at that point have two progressive measures for pistol and rifle. And then I can see the idea of the lower die and custom funnels (although can't this be accommodated in the die adjustment?) being useful for specific cartridges and I may get there eventually. However some of that money may be better spent on another single stage press though.

So, how do you keep the case activator forces from deforming the case mouth?

 

[KansasSasquatch]

The case activation parts shouldn't be causing the case mouths to get deformed. If they are, you're probably using the powder measure with the powder through expander stop. This thing http://www.midwayusa.com/product/95...through-expander-linkage?cm_vc=ProductFinding You should only have that part in place if you're using a powder through expander tube while loading straight walled cartridges.

If you do have that piece removed and it's still crushing case mouths, you probably need to re-adjust the die or the part of the linkage that holds the powder measure. If the rotor is hitting a dead stop at the top of it's rotation, then you'll likely get some crushed mouths and possibly some spilled powder. If your brass isn't consistently trimmed this can be an issue, especially if you end up unintentionally using your shortest casing to set the measure.

 

[Hondo 60]

Tried reloading 223 on my Dillon 550 and never could get powder to drop the same amount twice

I guess it depends on what powder.
I use Varget for 223s & my 550 drops right on the nose probably 90%.
The other 10% is .1 high or low.
I'm not gonna worry about 1 tenth of a grain

 

[Nature Boy]

Well, I didn't make it to the range but I did manage to crank out some .223

It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Made some 55g VMAX with Benchrest and some 69g SMKs with Varget. Made 150 rounds and still have ~500 cases left ready to load.

Don't give up on it Paddy

 

[Paddy]

Good deal. Yeah I'm not giving up yet, not until wasting more money that is. At a certain point though it's hard to beat fractory 223 @ .33$ ea.

I didn't make it to the range today either, but I did cast my very first bullets! 12ga slugs with a Lyman mold and it was surprisingly entertaining. Not just the splashing of molten lead, airborn and covering my pants and shoes either. But, relying heavily on beginners luck I managed to bang out a couple hundred beautiful looking slugs.

Hey man what's that spotlight octopus thing you've got there?

 

[Nature Boy]

Hey man what's that spotlight octopus thing you've got there?
Attached Thumbnails

It's a Leica microscope light that was being thrown out with a bunch of stuff at work. It's old and bulky but it was free and kinda cool. I snagged it along with that neat table top mill that works great for my WFT.

 

[ku4hx]

My 20+ year old RL550B has never failed to get the job done with pistol or .223. In fact, the .223 is one of my easiest cartridges to load. And that's with the supplied Dillon powder measure. But, over the years I've learned some powders work better than others and I'll gladly sacrifice a little MV for better powder flow and consistency.

That being the case, my favorite .223 powder is Hodgdon BL-C(2) followed closely by their Benchrest.

Case prep is not exactly a fun activity, but using a Little Crow trimmer helps a lot. All the brass prep is done separately from the actual loading on a different bench. By the time the brass moves to the loading bench, it's 100% ready.

 

[Paddy]

Oh wow that is a score! Leica anything is awesome. Love the mini mill too.