Remington 700 barrel pointing left - Remington says there's nothing wrong, what to do now?

[IMtheNRA]

I'm wondering if someone has gone through a similar process with Remington repair service and could offer some advice on what to do next.

About three and a half months ago, I bought a Remington 700 that shoots impressive groups, but about a foot to the left at 100 yards even though the scope is adjusted all the way to the limit to try to compensate for this.

I called and told them the barrel is pointing left and Remington sent UPS to pick up the rifle and returned it a few weeks later saying there was nothing wrong with it. The work order said they checked for a bent barrel, and it was not bent. The gun still shoots a foot left and it came back with a gouged muzzle.

I called again, and gave them a detailed description of the problem, namely that the barrel is actually pointing to the left. It is clearly visible, as the barrel deviates to the left of the center line when viewed from above. Also, the scope, when viewed from above is clearly to the right of the barrel's center line.

The rifle went back to Remington along with my detailed letter and this time they marked the order "receiver miscut". Last week, after about 2 months there, the rifle came back and the order said "repaired crown, refinished muzzle". Of course, the muzzle gouge is still mostly there, but my biggest problem is the barrel is still pointing left.

This condition was confirmed by my gunsmith, who is also a full-time senior instructor at Colorado's School of Trades gunsmithing college. I now used three scope mounts and three sets of rings and two rifle stocks to isolate the problem, but the condition is exactly the same no matter what combination of equipment I use, which seems to confirm there is a problem with the receiver + barrel, and not any of the peripheral equipment.

I spoke several times with a Remington telephone rep who handled my case, and he either does not believe me or lacks the technical background to understand the problem. Remington's rep says they checked the gun with "cones", though he was unable to explain what these cones do or how they're used, and the "cones" told them the gun shoots straight. He says the cones are "very precise". As further evidence of their evaluation efforts, he repeatedly mentioned that they shot a 1.25" group with the gun using a "high magnification Leupold scope". His words, not mine.

Beyond this, Remington's rep's responses are simply robotic - "we did not observe that" is his reply to my complaint about leftward deviation of the barrel. No matter what I said, he automatically stonewalled with "we did not observe that". "We did not observe that"...

At the end, Remington's rep actually offered to glass bed the barrel to the stock for $165 to, as he put it, "eliminate barrel whip".

So now, I have a Remington-gouged barrel, which is not a big deal, and a gun that shoots a foot left at 100, which is a big deal, and a rep who thinks I'm full of it. On top of this, Remington replaced the trigger, which was **NOT subject to recall** with a new, stunningly heavy trigger and glued over the adjustment screws to keep the unwashed, gum-chewing public out of their perfect trigger.

So... Does anyone have a high-level contact at Remington whom I can call or email in hopes they'll understand the technical problem I'm experiencing with their precise (.4 to .5 inch groups), but unfortunately left-pointing rifle? Any suggestions or ideas are welcome.

Edited to add: Photos uploaded to the second page.

 

[jmr40]

Return the rifle and demand a replacement. I had to make a fuss several years ago with S&W, but they did eventually send me a new pistol. It took 5 months and 4 return trips all told. But then I traded it unfired for a Glock and never looked back.

 

[illinoisburt]

In the past it wasn't uncommon for mounting screw holes to be misaligned. The usual answer was an adjustable base. The Leupold is good quality and not terribly expensive. Obviously not a fix of the rifle, but there may be enough adjustment to get the scope centered. (I wouldn't be shocked if this was the exact setup used by Remington in their testing.)

 

[IMtheNRA]

It was meant to be a 1,500 yard rifle, so I don't have any options with adjustable 20 MOA Picatinny rails.

I strongly suspect that the receiver is drilled and tapped crooked for the barrel, which would make this rifle worthless as an action donor for a custom built rig that I envisioned after shooting out this nice factory barrel.

I am seriously at a loss to explain Remington's inability to see the problem. Weird...

 

[Skylerbone]

1 of 2 options: remove any mount, find a thin paint marker or sharp china marker and draw a centerline through the receiver holes and onto the barrel. You could also securely tape a straightedge long enough to observe the misalignment, and send it back again.

If all it is are the holes then have it re-drilled by a professional and be done with it. Sorry to hear your long range rifle has become a long range project.

 

[grampajack]

I have bought exactly one Remington in my entire life, and while I did not get a functional shotgun I did get an education in dealing with their customer service. It had to go back to the factory twice before it would even function, and the guy I had to deal with was a major tool to say the very least. File a claim with the BBB, ignore Remington's empty pleas to take it down, and sell the gun (at a discount of course, and with a disclaimer).

 

[someguy2800]

Is the barrel centered in the forend? If so then the barrel is probably not crooked. I believe what the tech mentioned about testing it with cones is that they put a cone in the end of the bore and one in the end of the reciever and spin the rifle to check that the barrel is concentric to the action. You will easily be able to tell by laying the receiver on its side on a flat table and measuring the gap between the table and muzzle on each side. If its not even then the barrel is crooked.

If it turns out that its just the scope mounting holes that are not in alignment with the bore I would do as was suggested and have a gunsmith redrill them straight 1/8" forward or back from the originals. If the gun shoots .5 moa as is it would be worth trying to make it work since the replacement you would get will in all likelihood not be as accurate.

 

[someguy2800]

and sell the gun.

Don't sell stuff you know is broken unless you tell the next guy as much, thats just not right.

 

[grampajack]

Don't sell stuff you know is broken unless you tell the next guy as much, thats just not right.

That goes without saying. But there are lots of people willing to pay close to full price for lemons. I do not know why, but I've found it to be true. I think they're enticed first by the discount, even though it's not much, and second by the belief that they can fix it. There is this type of person out there who religiously believes that paying full price for anything is only due to a lack of ingenuity, and that they themselves can outsmart the system to always get a good deal.

 

[IMtheNRA]

Someguy - the barrel clearly gets closer and closer to the left side of the forend when viewed from above. My gunsmith confirmed the observation by using straight edges placed alongside the barreled receiver after it was removed from the stock.

I'll post overhead photos of this as well as the great suggestion of drawing a line on top of the receiver's scope holes.

 

[Hummer70]

This is why Manson Precision Reamers sells a action truing kit which straightens the threads on Remington actions and I believe also squares the front of the actions. Look at your primer indents and see how far off center the striker impacts the primer. The industry recommendation allows for one half the diameter of the striker offset. Strikers are about .060-.062" diameter so you are looking at .030" offset. Only problem is Frankford Arsenal did a multi million primer ignition study using a drop fixture and found impacts over .020" off center get you into the misfire catagory. Not every time but you are more likely to.
https://mansonreamers.com/tool-instructions/

Or think of it this way, you have a round receiver and a round barrel which any competent machinist should be able to drill a hole with .001" of dead center of the outside piece.Then fit a bolt into that hole within .001" and drill a hole in the center of the bolt within .001 of dead center and cut a chamber within .002" over the size of a new unfired cartridge case so worst case you should had striker indent no more than .005" off center and they go out the door with .030" offset which begs the question "Why?"

Mitch Maxberry is multiple time National Highpower Champion and a tool/die maker so builds his own rifles. He says the most critical thing in actions is to have the front of the action exactly square with the bore center line of the rifle.



I have seen multiple Remington barrels that when viewed you could see the bore was not centered in the barrel. One was so bad no scope had enough adjustment to zero rifle at 100 yards. They replaced it.

Bottom line is if you want a true action get one of the actions Palma shooters are using these days. I have shot with guys using them and I always look at their fired cases and the striker indents are dead center.

There is an excellent book on action problems and how to fix them called,
The Complete Illustrated Guide to Precision Rifle Barrel Fitting by Hinnant that explains everything you need to know and didn't know what to ask.

If you have a plastic stock I have seen a number of them with barrels off center in stock. My buddy at Remington told me the inletting on some of the plastic heavy barrel stocks in the receiver area was slightly off moving he barrel to the side. I have seen the same thing with plastic stocks on a Winchester Mod 70 heavy barrel.

 

[someguy2800]

One has to wonder how many misaligned and miss machined parts have to come together in just the right order for remington to accidentally put together an accurate rifle. The crooked threaded barrel cancels out the crooked threaded reciever, the lopsided bolt lugs cancel out the miss machined receiver lugs, the poorly inletted stock lines up with the crooked barrel, the barrel with an off center bore cancels out the bolt with the miss drilled firing pin hole, and miss drilled scope mount holes end up pointing in the same direction as the barrel by total coincidence.

As an engineer I just can't fathom how in the age of CNC such a well resourced company can't build a fixture to hold a receiver so as that the operator can not put it in crooked to machine. Looking at it from my manufacturing and machining background I just really can't see how this is such a problem or why it's normal for a smith to have to true or blueprint an action. It's not a complicated part to just get it right the first time.

 

[wild willy]

I have a Remington 700 .308 bought new that the chamber is not in line with the bore on one side you can see the end of the rifling plus more other side rifling in line with chamber no leade. I sent it back they said nothing wrong with it.Last Remington I bought or will buy.

 

[Picher]

I'm not impressed with Remington's service either. I recently sent a 700 Stainless to them that was cratering primers with both factory rounds and handloads. The repair center in MA said the rifle had excessive headspace and called it a dangerous rifle, but did nothing to it. I took it to an excellent gunsmith here and we checked it, along with a new one and BOTH rifles had the same headspace! The gunsmith said that Remington doesn't use a GO gauge, but a FIELD gauge to set headspace, which fit snugly in both rifles. Branding the rifle as dangerous seems to make it unsalable. Should I do so, I could be liable for anything that may happen to the new owner...even if they stuck the muzzle in the mud, then shot it.

I believe the problem is a weak firing pin strike. Another relatively new stainless 700, in a different chambering, is beginning to exhibit the same tendency.

I've bought my last Remington firearm, and I either now own, or once owned, 16 Remingtons over the years.

 

[Varminterror]

I expect when he says "cones" he is meaning live centers.

Straight edges on the exterior of the action and barrel will tell you exactly nothing about concentricity.

As Hummer mentioned above, there are means for truing the action yourself, however, the cutter set is more expensive than having the blue printing done by a gunsmith, AND their system of tools do not have any means for truing the bolt lugs (receiver face, threads, bolt face, and receiver lugs only).

If the base screws are off centerline as well as the barrel, then I would check with a smith to see if enlarging to a proper 8-40 screw, then I would bail on the action altogether. Talk to Remington again and demand either a replacement or refund, and rid yourself of this one.

 

[Skylerbone]

Straight edges on the exterior of the action and barrel will tell you exactly nothing about concentricity.

Well aware of that, what I am suggesting is buying a straightedge, taping it in place along the centerline of the base holes, and sending it back to Big Green exactly that way.

I don't doubt that the action is off true but I think the more likely cause of such a gross misalignment is more likely in the mount hole location which would be obvious to the OP at a glance and probably get the point across to someone at Remington.

 

[blue32]

If I was at this point I would cease further interaction with Remington and buy an aftermarket barrel. If they're not going to make it right you may have to make it right yourself.

 

[dh1633pm]

I would take a large hammer and wack it until its straight. Sarcastic I know, and yes I didn't mean it, but it would seem that is what Remington would have you do, since they don't seem to care. I would raise more fuss then they could imagine. Let me call my friend at Remington right now and see what he says. Stand by calling Ilion.

 

[dh1633pm]

I called him and left a message to call. Remington employees are furloughed this week. Take vacation time or time without pay. Two weeks in December. Will report what he says.

 

[wally]

You said it groups well. I don't know how much more fighting with Remington you are willing to do, but if you are happy with the way it groups they make "wind-age adjustable" bases to get the groups back on center with the scope adjustments centered.

 

[Skylerbone]

they make "wind-age adjustable" bases to get the groups back on center with the scope adjustments centered.

That would have been my suggestion as well were it not for the lack of a 20 MOA base the OP needs to get to 1,500 yards. Personally I'd be hoping for a refund and saving for a Savage or Bergara. And yes, I own several Remingtons.

 

[LoonWulf]

what variant of 700 is this if you dont mind me asking?
Ive both read about and talked to a few people who have recently had guns needing to go back to remington, they were all helped pretty quickly. BUT they were all higher end 700s, im curious if remington is more willing to help folks who buy the expensive stuff.

Were the gun mine, i would have a smith or shop send it back with a detailed explanation of the problem, they may get more traction than you do as an individual.
I certainly would NOT be using it for a custom build unless your going to have the WHOLE thing gone over by a very competent smith. If the receiver is not square, or the threads are miss cut, its likely to be alot more of a pain to fix than just buying a new action to start from.

 

[dh1633pm]

I talked to my friend. He just got back from hunting. He said to check the action apart from the stock. He said that certain aftermarket stocks, especially H&S are not machined straight and the barrel will be closer on one side of the barrel channel than the other. That doesn't make the barrel crooked, but the stock is. He said that shouldn't effect accuracy or cause the problem as stated. He said how they check the barrels and actions to make sure things are lined up. Matched what was reported earlier.

He said to carefully check the threads for your scope mount. He strong suspects that they are out of alignment.

 

[4v50 Gary]

If it is the barrel that is offset to the left, then my solution would be to work on the receiver. Obviously if the barrel is canted to the left, then the receiver was tapped improperly.

I would reduce the thread and then rethread it. This is somewhat akin to blueprinting. By recutting the threads, I would think the threads would be straighter. Mind you, the barrel won't fit now and a new barrel with a thicker shank needs to be made and threaded for the barrel.

The guys at Colorado School of Trade should be able to do that.


Re: the receiver being drilled wrong, I'd plug the holes and then redrill and tap them. CST should be able to do that too.

 

[illinoisburt]

It was meant to be a 1,500 yard rifle, so I don't have any options with adjustable 20 MOA Picatinny rails.

I strongly suspect that the receiver is drilled and tapped crooked for the barrel, which would make this rifle worthless as an action donor for a custom built rig that I envisioned after shooting out this nice factory barrel.

I am seriously at a loss to explain Remington's inability to see the problem. Weird...

As I noted earlier, Leupold makes a good windage adjustable base. Their long range adjustable base also allows shims to add the elevation you desire. It obviously isnt a rail, but a quality solid mount for your optic and certainly a solution for your rifle without any further alterations.

https://www.leupold.com/scope-mounts/std-remington-700-long-range-rh-sa-1-pc