Remington 700 Decision

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My problems with the 700s were huge. The first one I bought back in 1998 was a CDL in 7mm Rem Mag, brand new in the box and when I went to break it in it would not chamber a round :( Shame really because it was such a pretty rifle, I owned an early synthetic model that shot OK but was nothing compared to my Savages, and it had some minor feeding issues. The final one that I wasted my money on was a horrid ADL that i bought in 2009, it started rusting the day I took it out of the box! I kept it clean and oiled just like all of my other rifles and it just would not stop rusting at a crazy rate! 3 Remingtons and I was glad to be rid of all of them, the ONLY thing that I still own with a Remington badge on it is an old Speedmaster that I have no plans to get rid of. That shows me the contrast of what Remington used to be and what they are now. My cheap Savages are vastly superior in every way (except looks) The only way I would ever touch a new Remington again is for them to fire everyone in their QC department and replace them with people who know what quality looks like.
 
The problem is not with Remington or any specific brand but with most of them with certain models and budged class. I never needed Remington to fix anything, maybe I have been lucky but if I needed something I know I would have to maybe prepare for a ride. I hear reports all over about horror stories when they need something. It is expected as with any product that the makers will back their products with reasonable if not great support but lots of folks go for the cheapest possible deal and then they expect top quality service and a capuccino while waiting.

Economy rifles are part of the "big deals" weekend fliers everywhere and they claim extreme accuracy, lighter materials, the works!

Well, there are good ones I am sure but many they are just trying to convince you that is the next new hot feature that you need while the manufacturing costs and therefore the quality keeps going down.

I also never needed Savage for any fixes and I heard they are way better in service. Both have great systems that I love but I would be very careful about the weekend Gander Mt. deal unless is a SAvage 22LR or something with certain background and just for a little fun.
I know form a friend that got a keltec he had one issue and they bent backwards to fix it. Specially smaller companies that interact a lot with folks to better they rather innovative features are far ahead from the big conglomerates that treat customers like a number. In case you do not know Remington is own by the same financial group that owns DPMS, Bushmaster and a bunch of other companies.

Read the below article from Chuck Hawks about one of the popular "innovative" makers.

A Critical Look at the Tikka T3
(And Other Economy Hunting Rifles)
By Chuck Hawks

Like many old geezers, I bemoan the loss, or lack, of standards in our modern world. And nowhere is this devaluation of quality more evident than in 21st Century hunting rifles. (Actually, the slide started in the 1960's and accelerated toward the end of the 20th Century).

We are, today, reaping the crop of sub-standard rifles previously sown. Most of the blame for this falls squarely on the shoulders of the writers and publishers of the specialty outdoors print magazines. In the quest for advertising dollars they have turned a blind eye to the constant cheapening of our hunting guns. Often they have merely parroted the promotional flack handed to them by the manufacturer's ad agencies.

Thus flimsy, injection molded plastic stocks are praised as "lightweight" or "weather resistant" rather than criticized as the inferior bedding platforms that they actually are. Free floating barrels, introduced simply to minimize the labor cost of precisely bedding a barreled action in a gun stock, are now praised as an asset by those who know nothing else. A perfect example of an economy shortcut becoming the new standard.

The deficiencies of receivers that are simply drilled from bar stock and that substitute heavy washers for integral recoil lugs are never examined in modern rifle reviews. Often the loading/ejection port--merely a slot cut into the tubular receiver--is so small that it is difficult or impossible to load a cartridge directly into the chamber, or manually remove a fired case. But the implication of this drawback at the range and in the field is never mentioned in most rifle reviews.

In many cases, "short actions" are merely long actions with the bolt stop moved to limit bolt travel. The modern gun writers who review these creations likewise never mention that this defeats the fundamental purpose of the short action calibers for which these rifles are chambered.

The receiver holds the bolt, which brings up a salient question: does anyone really believe than a cheap multi-piece, assembled bolt has any possible advantage over a one-piece forged steel bolt except economy of manufacture?

The use of plastic, nearly disposable, detachable magazines and trigger guards is overlooked by the popular print press, or actually praised for their lightweight construction. Talk about spin, these guys could teach the Washington politicians some tricks!

In fact, "lightweight" and "accuracy" are the buzzwords most frequently used to "spin" hunting rifle reviews in a paying advertiser's favor. (Cheap substitute materials are usually lighter--but not stronger--than forged steel, and most production rifles will occasionally shoot a "braggin' group" that can be exploited in a review.) Whenever reviewers start touting either, watch out! There may not be a lot to tout in the critical areas of design, material quality, manufacture, or fit and finish.

A rifle's lines and finish are largely cosmetic, but why should we be condemned to hunt with ugly rifles? Matte finishes on barreled actions are sold as a benefit ("low glare"), but in reality they are simply faster and thus less expensive for the manufacturer to produce than a highly polished finish. And the flat black color touted as a stealth advantage of plastic stocks over walnut is patently absurd. Why would a rational person believe that such stocks are any less visible to animals in the woods than a wooden stock?

Have you noticed how the checkered areas on wood stocked Tikka T3 rifles are divided into several small patches? That is done because it is easier (and therefore cheaper) to cut a small patch of checkering than a larger one. The shorter the individual checkering lines, the easier it is to keep them straight. Once again, manufacturing economy triumphs over aesthetics and function.

The Tikka T3 is certainly not the only modern hunting rifle to adopt some or most of these production shortcuts. I have not chosen it for the lead in this article just to pick on Tikka. I have chosen it as the poster child for cheap rifles because it is one of the few models to incorporate all of these cost and quality reducing shortcuts. If there is a production shortcut out there, the T3 has probably already incorporated it.

Then there is the Tikka 1" 100-yard test. I have yet to see, or even read about, a T3 hunting rifle that will consistently meet Tikka's 3-shots into 1" at 100 yards accuracy claim.

Now, unlike many gun writers today, I try not to over emphasize the importance of accuracy in big game hunting rifles. Big game animals are large and hair-splitting accuracy is almost never required. A rifle that will shoot into 2" at 100 yards (2 MOA) is accurate enough for most purposes. A hunting rifle that will average 1.5 MOA groups is a good one, and most T3 rifles fall into that category.

But the Beretta/Sako/Tikka conglomerate heavily advertises their accuracy guarantee. They market their rifles on that basis. And, in my experience, most Tikka T3 rifles simply will not consistently meet their own accuracy guarantee. If a average T3 will shoot an occasional 1" group with any load it is doing well. (Want a real MOA hunting rifle? Read our review of the Weatherby Vanguard SUB-MOA on the Product Review Page.) Why do none of my fellow gun writers in the popular press call Beretta on its misleading advertising?

That is, of course, a rhetorical question. The answer is simple: Beretta Corp. is a big bucks advertiser in the popular print magazines. But what about the writers' and editors' obligation to their readers, who pay their hard earned dollars to read those reviews? Obviously, the word "integrity" has been deleted from the print mag publishers' spelling checkers.

To add insult to injury, the Tikka T3 is a cheap rifle, but not an inexpensive one. These things cost as much or more than some higher quality, better designed, and better turned-out hunting rifles.

None of this means that a person cannot hunt successfully with a Tikka T3 rifle, or that Tikka owners are a particularly dissatisfied lot. There are many T3 owners who have no complaints, and many who are pleased with the performance of their T3 rifles and satisfied with their purchase. In truth, they are safe, functional rifles and perfectly capable of killing game in the hands of an adequate shot. The same could be said about most other economy models, including the Stevens 200, Remington 710, and NEF rifles.

But I suspect that most satisfied T3 customers are not experienced rifle buyers. A person who has never owned a fine rifle is much more likely to be tolerant (or ignorant) of an economy rifle's shortcomings than an experienced shooter and hunter. The relative newcomer simply has inadequate personal experience upon which to formulate an informed opinion.

To make a crude analogy, all acoustic guitars may feel pretty much alike in the hands of a person who doesn't play, but not to a virtuoso. Similarly, I'll bet that most hunters who use economy rifles don't realize that their rifle's cheap plastic stock is too thick through the wrist and forearm. This is something that comes into play every time they pick up their rifle, yet they don't even know that it is deficient! They have never owned a rifle equipped with a well-designed stock, so they have no frame of reference and simply don't understand how much better a good rifle feels in the hands.

Still, I find it hard to understand how Tikka stays in business offering less rifle for more money. The T3's success is a tribute to the ignorance of the modern American sportsman--and the connivance of the sporting press upon which they rely for information.
 
I really appreciate all the good advice from those responding, especially those with direct experience and pics related to the rifle in question. Lots of replies to respond to. Well I only plan on target/pinking and small game hunting so the twist rate of 1:12 doesn't bother me at all, gonna be using practice FMJ rounds and eventually handloads once I start reloading in the near future. I'm not too sure of the real downsides to the lack of a magazine floorplate as the only bolt action I own is an old Mossburg .22 bolt action with a tubular magazine. Is it just faster reloading or unloading? I've continued looking around at the competition, like Savage and a Weatherby Vanguard I came across. Stopping by the shop today to try and find out whether the LVSF ever had the warranty registered, could seal the deal for me, we'll see what happens. I'm definitely not an impulse buyer so I'm thinking this through.
 
In reguard to Chuck Hawks review of the T3 rifles, that is one of the very few things that I disagree with him on. I am a VERY experenced rifle owner/shooter/hunter. I have shot more rifles then most people ever dream of because of all my horse tradeing and gun clubs, and I LOVE my Tikka. I don't know where he gets the idea that the synthetic stock feels cheap, It is a high quality hard fiber/matrix design, VASTLY superior to the crapy injection molded cheap plastic stocks that my Remingtons, Savages, Marlins, and others came with.
I am not a large individual, and I do alot of walking in the feild, I do not want a bulky 9lbs+ rifle. The slim, compact tikka fits me perfect, and weighs much less then other rifles in the same class. No doubt I could use a model 7 or other compact "youth" rifle, but I would have to deal with the muzzleblast of 16-20" barrels and with the exception of the kevlar Kimber and the super new featherweight Savage they are all heavier then the T3.
People who have never owned one gripe about the plastic recoil lug, funny thing though I have yet to ever hear of that being an issue for anyone, then there is the plastic triger guard, never seen one of those broken either, because they are the same fiber/matrix composit, what is the difference? Think Farrari body pannels (fiber/matrix) vs Tonka truck (injection molding), handle a SPS or synthetic savage and a T3 side by side and you will see what I mean. Tikka also has their action bedded (via full length contact) to the stock and has a free floating barrel, two things that remington has yet to perfect. As far as accuracy goes my T3 will touch holes at 100yd all day long (well below MOA), there very well might be a more accurate rifle out there, but I could never imagine needing more accuracy then that in the feild.
To top it all off, the T3 comes with the smoothest action I have seen on any rifle, and an adjustable SINGLE STAGE trigger that breaks crisp as glass, easly as good as high dollar custom triggers I have used. I understand being in love with a black walnut/mauser action masterpiece :) but to call the Tikka cheap garbage because it is different is just plain wrong and I would tell Chuck that to his face.
 
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