RESIZE BULLETS????????

[oughtsix]

I have some, 300 grain cast lead bullets from National Bullet Company, sized .459" for .45-70. Is there an economical way to swage (sp?) these down to .451" - .452" for use in .45 Long Colt??

I have a Lyman turret press, an RCBS 4x4, and a Lee Reloader press.

I've had them for 10+ years. Great paper weight!!

Thanks!!

You guys are great!!!!!!!!1

 

[Seismic Sam]

You can do it, but it probably won'tbe cost effective

unless you have several thousand of these 45-70 bullets lying around. You need a special sizing press and dies to do this from Lyman, and I have no idea what the prices are for this equipment these days. When bullets are cast they are not super uniform in diameter depending on the alloy you are using to cast them, and after you cast them you run them through a size die that makes them round and of a uniform diameter, and also pushes lube into the bullet grooves.

 

[Travis Two]

You are going to get excessive distortion in the bullets by trying to swage them down that far that it will make them almost worthless.

 

[shooting on a shoestring]

Yes you can, but....

Oughtsix, you need a lubrisizer. Its a great little gizmo. Mine is a Lyman 450. RCBS, Saeco, and some others make them too. You buy sizer dies for the diameter you want, a top punch that fits the bullet nose you're using, and some bullet lube. Then simply set the bullet in the die, pull the handle shoving the bullet down into the die (squishing it down in diameter), then screw a little tension on the lube tube and it squirts the grooves in your bullet full of lube, push the handle back up bringing the newly sized and lubed bullet back to you.

New lubrisizers...hmmm... probably in the $75 range. Dies about $20, top punch $8, lube $3 a tube (I use 50/50 candle wax and toilet bowl ring. Candles from garage sales dirt cheap, toilet bowl rings from Home Depot real cheap. Melt them together in a double boiler.).

For .45 Colt are you sure you want to go to .451 or .452? I suggest you slug your barrel, mic your chamber throats. Good chance your barrel will be .451 to .452, your throats might be .452 in which case you'll want to size to .454. Always run cast bullet diameters .002 inch bigger than throat diameter. Ideally your barrel diameter will be smaller than throat diameter, this will keep leading problems in check.

I believe you'll do fine sizing .459 cast bullets down to .454 or .452. Thats only .005 or .007 on a large diameter bullet, and you'll be shooting them in a revolver. Just don't expect 1" groups at 100 yards. Expect 3 inch groups at 25 yards and you'll be happy.

If you get the lubrisizer stuff, spend another $65 for molds, $30 for mold handles, $5 for ladel, $15 for plumbers lead pot, coleman stove at garage sale $?, stop by your tire store for some wheel weights and cast your own. I do.

 

[ribbonstone]

All you need is the Lee push-through die...the bullet sizing die they sell made to mount on a press and have you push the bullet through from the bottom up.

Does NOT apply lube...and I'll let you in on a secret: LUBE DOESN'T COMPRESS (basically a thick liquid...and liquids won't compress). So if you fill the .459" bullet's grooves full of lube, when you size them to .452" the lube grooves will NOT close up.

Unlike normal luber-sizers, the bullet isn't held captive...it will self-center and can be sized those .007" without major distortion.

 

[HSMITH]

ribbonstone details EXACTLY what I have done to shoot .458" and .459" bullets in 45 Colt. It works great, and the total cost is about $16 for the sizer and shipping.

 

[oughtsix]

ONE MORE QUESTION

Thanks for all the replies. Especially hsmith and ribbonstone!!

Hsmith and ribbonstone, does this process lengthen swaged bullet and retain approximately original weight? Or does it shave material off? I suspect the former.

 

[HSMITH]

I suppose it makes them longer, but it isn't much. You are only reducing the diameter a couple thousandths of an inch. It certainly doesn't shave anything off.

 

[ribbonstone]

Does make them longer...not a whole bunch, but if you were to size some bare and some lube filled, could visually sort them out by length.

And that is proably improtant...that length represents the lube gooves that HAVEN'T compressed.

And in case you are wondering how to fill the gooves when you don't have a luber-sizer, can do it the old fasioned way: by hand. You work wet-hand and dry-hand (kind of like when you battter chicken o fish). Grab the bullet between finger and thumb, finger on point and thumb on base, and with the other (wet) hand, glop up some soft lube and rub in into the grooves. Works best across the gooves rather than with them. Any excess will remove itself when pushed through the sizer (just try to keep the noses clean so your clean up is limited to the base).

YEP..it's messy and slow...it's not somthing you'd want to do for hundreds of bullets. But for 50 or 100 at a time, it has the dual virtues of (1) being cheap and (2) working like a champ.

 

[Hazzard]

you can also stand them nose up in a pan, melt lube, pour around the bullets and let harden. turn the pan upside down and drop out the contents. You can then push the bullets out and the lube will stay in the grooves.

 

[ribbonstone]

That's tradtional, and it works great.

Do use smaller than you think you need pans...I like muffin tins. Want to crowd the tin with bullets so the amount of lube needed to cover the grooves is reasonable.

BUT at the end of the day, your hands and fingers are going to still be a lube coated mess....and i'd guess the time it takes to pan-lube, cool, and remove 100bullets would be about the same if you pan lubed them or just rubbed in in by hand.

(Don't know for sure...haven't run a timed side-by-side test.)

Pan lubing does have the advantage when larger numbers are being processed...but for 50 or 100 bullets, I'd proably not bother.

 

[Jim Watson]

Elmer Keith did it; sized down 300 grain .45-90 bullets probably to .454" for use in first generation .45 Colt. Blew one up that way. Not because it was oversize or heavy but because it jumped the crimp and stuck out the front of the cylinder. He pushed it back in, got it too far back, reduced case volume, which increased pressure and overloaded the thin cylinder. One of the things that moved him to .44 Special for hotloading.

 

[oughtsix]

Thanks guys!!

Sounds like good advice. I should have stated that the .45-70 bullets came with lubed grooves.

Many thanks!!

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Nov-Dec 1970 Handloader on page 18 list a nice article about how to "bump" a bullet to a different size and gives instructions on how to make your own dies and what some of the pitfalls are.

Good luck. It looks kind of interesting and his results are pretty good.