Revolver cylinder gap gas severs thumb, now shooter sues S&W

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Right...how about red w/yellow stripes and green polka dots? That will differentiate it from less important things like not pointing the gun at someone else...
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Or dealing with a misfire or storing the firearm loaded or ... There's plenty of "red text" warnings in that manual that we all routinely ignore. Also, nearly every warning, "red" or not (to include the "not pointing it at someone"), applies equally to a .32 wad cutter or .460 ninja doom round. This, however, is not the case with b/c gap effect which is roughly like a butterfly kiss in .22RF vs a plasma cutter in .460.

I'm not defending the guy or the suit but I don't find myself brimming over with confidence that a jury will share my views. I'll count myself fortunate if all that happens is a supplemental sticker or "460 / 500 specific" manual. Given the used market ("no box or papers") I wouldn't be shocked to see a billboard - if so, let's hope in on the bottom of the barrel and only stamped on the ninja-doom revolvers.
 
Well, the majority of guns do not maim the shooter under any circumstances. I should think S&W would KNOW this could cause this very specific problem.

I'm all for personal responsibility, but aside from the business end of ANY gun, what other guns can sever your thumb just from the way you grip it?
 
It makes me wonder if there's an optimal cylinder gap for shearing power, and that his gun wasn't in spec. perhaps a thousandth either way, and wouldn't have the power to sever his thumb.
 
65,000 PSI, and near 50 grains of powder!

A thousandths here, a thousandths there, ain't gonna matter!

You stick your finger in the Light Saber, it's gonna cut you bad!

rcmodel
 
Did he hit the deer?
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I wonder. I hope he got a ten pointer!
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No, he ended up with a nine-pointer, of course!

The guy was IGNORANT, not necessarily stupid. The question, to me, is *HOW CONSPICUOUS* were the warnings in the manual? I think we all agree that he should have read the manual. But were these warnings buried in the back or in large bold letters on the first few pages, and re-emphasized a couple of times? If the latter, then I agree, he should not recover. If the former, then let the jury decide...
 
Stupid warnings all over the place!

In some ways....

No, let me start over. In many ways, our society has become a bunch of idiots. When they have to put a warning label on a soda bottle telling you NOT TO AIM THE BOTTLE CAP AT PEOPLE WHILE OPENING AS IT MAY CAUSE BODILY INJURY it is pathetic.

When does common sense end? Although I don't believe in Darwin, there may have been some sort of "filtering out" of the non-common sense people over the years (centuries, milleniums).

I learned as a boy, in the 60's not to place my hand and/or any of my fingers in the rotating mower cutters on the older mower and when my father finally switched to a rotary, I learned that that whirling blade could take off a hand, finger, top of sneaker, you name it! There were no guards on lawnmowers in the 60's that I can remember. I don't remember warning labels either.

I wonder how much of this actually ends up making people "stupid" or numb! I mean, really, most people don't take the time to read all the warnings anyway, and the more warnings there are, the more people are abt to ignore all of them, even when some are to be strictly heeded (like where NOT to place a finger when firing a revolver - ESPECIALLY AN EXTREMELY POWERFUL MAGNUM REVOLVER!).:uhoh:

Now, I always knew not to place my finger at the end of the muzzle when I pull the trigger! I wonder from where I learned that.
 
Well, the majority of guns do not maim the shooter under any circumstances. I should think S&W would KNOW this could cause this very specific problem.

I'm all for personal responsibility, but aside from the business end of ANY gun, what other guns can sever your thumb just from the way you grip it?
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Just about any .454 should be able to manage the trick, I'd think.

As for the rest, Smith puts the warning in big bold red letters in the owner's manual. If you read the manual you see the warning. If you don't read the manual, well, bummer.

I guess Smith may feel the need to begin putting excerpts from the manual right on the side of the barrel, a la Ruger. This, IMO, is an eyesore and a constant reminder of the tiresome age in which we live.

It surprises me a bit that even some gun owners are willing to fault the gunmaker for this, but I suppose it shouldn't.
 
Page 19

Quote:
The guy was IGNORANT, not necessarily stupid. The question, to me, is *HOW CONSPICUOUS* were the warnings in the manual? I think we all agree that he should have read the manual. But were these warnings buried in the back or in large bold letters on the first few pages, and re-emphasized a couple of times? If the latter, then I agree, he should not recover. If the former, then let the jury decide...
End Quote

Of course, it was on PAGE 19 of the manual, which may be the center of the manual - especially if the last half is in SPANISH!
 
It surprises me a bit that even some gun owners are willing to fault the gunmaker for this, but I suppose it shouldn't.
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It may not be easy to distinguish what some posters are concerned will happen with what they think should happen, but any efforts along these lines will be appreciated. I've already stated I don't agree with the guy or the suit and I weary easily of repetition. Can't speak for anyone else of course.

The guy was IGNORANT, not necessarily stupid. The question, to me, is *HOW CONSPICUOUS* were the warnings in the manual? I think we all agree that he should have read the manual. But were these warnings buried in the back or in large bold letters on the first few pages, and re-emphasized a couple of times?
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Due in no small part to the influence of one Fuff, I find myself short of S&W manuals as packed with new product. However, I do have one from the model 40. Assuming it's the same manual packed with the .460, the warning regarding the barrel / cylinder gap is in the same color, typeface and accompanied by the same "Exclamation in triangle" graphic as the warnings to:

Not stage the trigger (page 20)

Never use reloads of any type, watch for bore obstructions (page 11)

Ensure the firearm is unloaded before inspecting (page 14)

Clearing misfires (page 23) Which, a cynic might note, runs directly contrary to advice routinely promolgated on this very forum ("just pull the trigger again").

The barrel / cylinder gap warning on page 19 has pictures of the right and wrong way of using a two hand hold. I believe it constitutes the only use of the "ghostbusters" graphic in the manual when illustrating the method of removing one's thumb.

I wouldn't personally consider it conspicuous by virtue of typeface, placement, color or "! graphic" but the pictures might be helpful in argument.
 
On the other hand, "vampire bites" from semiautos are common and I don't see much about that


Hadn't thought about that, I should sue the piss out of the mfr of my hi-power....
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If you do ANYTHING to defame the good name of John Moses Browning, you shall forevermore be consigned to load each round singly. :cuss:


;)
 
What happens when you fire a revolver from inside a coat pocket? That always comes up as an advantage for a revolver when a revolver vs. auto for SD argument comes up.
 
What happens when you fire a revolver from inside a coat pocket? That always comes up as an advantage for a revolver when a revolver vs. auto for SD argument comes up.
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Although I had severe misgivings concerning that "advantage" I would suppose that the typical standard pressure .38 special "pocket round" would be considerably more benign than the .460. My guess is "pocket shot" conjecture wouldn't involve anything more than .357 magnum.

Also, it was pointed out to me that my concerns over the family jewels substituting for the dude's thumb were unfounded if the pocket in question was held sufficiently away from one's person. However, it still has to be close enough to not appear obvious as "stealth" was the entire point of the enterprise. My imagination fails in visualizing "close enough for stealth but far enough to not turn me from a rooster to a hen" so I abandoned the attempt. My failure of imagination may be related to not having worn a trenchcoat since I left New York.

Personally, I'd prefer that "ok to shoot from pocket" be forever banished from "revolver love" threads by voluntary assent of the participants but I don't see that happening.

One might wonder if internet threads mentioning pocket shooting would lead a noob to conclude that b/c gap is a non-issue much like the other manual warnings that we routinely imply may be ignored with impunity but I seriously doubt that anyone deriving safety procedures from revolver "love" or "versus" threads (or any intertubz background chatter) will retain all his digits anyway.
 
legally speaking SW is clearly in the safe and clear here. the manual specifically says do not expose any part of the shooters body, or bystanders near or on the cylinder gap as the gas and lead particles coming out act like a buzz saw on soft tissue if your close enough.

and if i remember right theres several warning stickers printed in red ink in the smith manual that says anyone who disregards the warnings in the manual, and does not follow them is on their own and last i checked use of the firearm by user means that the user absolves the maker of all damages property and personal that may happen from misusing the firearm.
 
I had a Uberti made Colt 44 Walker which some of you know packs quite a punch with black powder. A used cap became lodged in between the cylinder and the frame when I pulled the hammer back to fire it again. A live round was underneath the hammer which was locked up between half and full cocked. In the process of trying to free it in this dangerous situation with the muzzle down range it freed and the hammer dropped on a live cap while my left hand was around the cylinder. I recieved a deep cut almost to the bone on my thumb with bad burns in two other areas on my palm. After getting stitched and evaluating it, I blame absolutely nobody but myself. C and B's are a lot of fun but they are a completely different breed of cat when a jam occurrs in this fashion.
 
legally speaking SW is clearly in the safe and clear here.
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In a perfect world yes. Unfortunately juries decide product liability cases if they get to a trial. Juries have a notorious habit of ignoring the law.
 
Interesting read.

Lets say I have a 357 mag in 2" snub form and I was pointing it a a bad guy from within my jacket pocket just a few inches out from my belly/side. Would would happen to me in said case if it were fired in the pocket then? Burns on hand or worse?
 
The worst I know of is, you set the pocket on fire.
And your jacket would have a bullet hole in it.

It's not like the flame reaches across vast distances.

The initial high-pressure blast right next to the gap is dispersed within a very few inches.

rcmodel
 
What happens when you fire a revolver from inside a coat pocket? That always comes up as an advantage for a revolver when a revolver vs. auto for SD argument comes up.
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I would like to see the coat from whose pocket you could physically fire a .460! Let me know how that turns out for you! :what:

--Michael
 
I would like to see the coat from whose pocket you could physically fire a .460! Let me know how that turns out for you!
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Mr. Bananaman had such pockets.

Let's see who here is old enough to remember that guy from Captain Kangaroo.
 
And this is why they put those ugly Read owners manual markings on a nice pretty gun... :cuss:
 
And this is why they put those ugly Read owners manual markings on a nice pretty gun...
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One can put instructions all over the gun or on a piece of paper, but people still have to read them.
 
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