Revolver for handgun hunting, another view

[CraigC]

Why are cast flat point bullets relevant for hunting these days?

Yes, they can get the job done, but modern expanding ammo has been proven to perform better on game. That’s why (most of) the world has moved on.

Just like the Jeep was replaced by the Humvee as the military’s defecto small four wheeler. The Humvee tech was simply superior.

You got that backwards. Cast bullets have really come into their own in recent decades and replaced jacketed bullets for a lot of hunters. The fact is that jacketed bullets are still unreliable and require a lot of velocity for consistent expansion. In a big bore, expansion is really unnecessary and a good SWC or LBT style cast flat point kills way out of proportion to what you may think. They are also less likely to fail, especially on light skinned game so they do what they do boring regularity and consistency over a broader velocity range. Hunting with cast bullets is not a compromise in the least.

The Jeep/HUMVEE analogy does not fit.

 

[CraigC]

After reading this thread and the claimed .45 Colt velocities for 300 grain bullets, I pulled my Hornady, Speer and Lyman manuals and I found that the loads being quoted here 300 grain bullets running at 1100-1200 are in fact Ruger and TC Contender only Loads. They are NOT suitable for a Colt SAA of the XR grip frame Rugers. Think 850 to 950 FPS for a 260 grain bullet as pretty max for and standard SAA. Carry on.

You can get a 260gr to 1100fps out of a Colt-level sixgun at approximately 21,000psi.

 

[CraigC]

Assuming that velocities are 1100 fps, and bullet weights are 255-260 grains: "The diameter of the wound channel produced by a proper hard-cast bullet is far more a product of the diameter of the meplat than the diameter of the bullet." Randy Garrett, Garrett Cartridges Inc., https://www.garrettcartridges.com/meplats.html , so effect on the game, with same meplat and same velocity, should be very similar regardless of caliber.

Absolutely! This is a point I've made many times and been vilified for suggesting that a .44 and .45 produced the same effect on game when the meplat diameter is equal. You really have to pay attention to this dimension on your commercial cast bullets. Because, very, very often, the difference in meplat between .44 and .45 bullets is either much less than that of overall bullet diameter or it's equal. For example, all the LFN's I've looked at have .300" meplats in both calibers. In other examples, it's only a .005-.010" difference. No game will ever know the difference but some folks are heavily invested in the idea that the .45 is measurably better in every way imaginable.

 

[Onty]

Most of us have a "soft spot" for Keith and his SWC bullets, so, despite excellent design of later LBT style bullets, sooner or later we go back to good, old and reliable SWC. When I was looking for a 44, plain base bullet mold, just for general shooting, that could also work in a backup revolver, I narrowed my choice to two molds MP-Molds makes; MP 432-256 PB (actually H&G #503) https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-432-256-pb-solid-6-cav-alu/ and LBT style 432-640 PB, solid point, plain base https://www.mp-molds.com/product/432-640-hollow-point-4-cavity-plain-base-mold/ . Since I do not have experience with any of them, I asked on another forum which one should be better choice regarding accuracy. Most answers were that both are good bluets, but #503 has the edge, so I opted for that one. That was before I learned about effectiveness of 454424 at 1100 fps. Since #503 has a meplat dia about .290", I've got itch "what if" #503 is modified to have a meplat .320". Here is the result, lower bullet:



NOTE: Lower bullet is just proposal, no bullet/mold exists, at least, I am not aware of it. However, if there is enough interest, I can talk with MP-Molds so mold could be manufactured.

 

[WrongHanded]

Veral Smith of Lead Bullet Technologies (LBT) stated that meplat diameter and velocity are what determine wound diameter with non-expanding projectiles. Bullet weight serves to conserve momentum, so enough is needed to reliably achieve an exit wound. Weight in excess of this goal could be considered wasted potential. Which may be better used towards the goal of increasing velocity, or reducing felt recoil.

There are a few formulas that give rough approximations of wound diameter and penetration potential with a given load.

 

[CraigC]

Most of us have a "soft spot" for Keith and his SWC bullets, so, despite excellent design of later LBT style bullets, sooner or later we go back to good, old and reliable SWC.

They're also usually cheaper and more available, if you're buying commercial bullets. They certainly have proved themselves in the field. I've probably killed more stuff with a generic .44/.45 SWC than any other centerfire projectile.

Veral Smith of Lead Bullet Technologies (LBT) stayed that meplat diameter and velocity are what determine wound diameter with non-expanding projectiles. Bullet weight serves to conserve momentum, so enough is needed to reliably achieve an exit wound. Weight in excess of this goal could be considered wasted potential. Which may be better used towards the goal of increasing velocity, or reducing felt recoil.

IMHO, he was right on the money!

 

[KansasTrapper77]

Why are cast flat point bullets relevant for hunting these days?

Yes, they can get the job done, but modern expanding ammo has been proven to perform better on game. That’s why (most of) the world has moved on.

Just like the Jeep was replaced by the Humvee as the military’s defecto small four wheeler. The Humvee tech was simply superior.

Last year I used a Hornady XTP 180gr in my Ruger Security Six. The XTP is a flat nose jacketed hollow point that I pushed as fast as it would go without flattening primers too bad. It penciled straight through the deer. No noticeable expansion on the exit wound. So this year I’m going to try a cast bullet and a larger caliber cartridge. Haha.

 

[CraigC]

I've definitely seen far more jacketed bullets fail than cast and more Hornady's in general.

 

[KansasTrapper77]

I've definitely seen far more jacketed bullets fail than cast and more Hornady's in general.

I’m a Hornady fan as they’re a local company but that XTP definitely let me down.